Ideal KA24DE Fully Built Engine??

[kpark129]

I was just wondering what would be the ideal KA24DE Rebuild be? Im actually looking to go at least 260 whp N/A. I was just wondering what internal parts I would need to succeed. Also is it a good idea to fully build a 172,XXX mileage (Thats how much my KA gotz XD... feels like its going to die soon) KA24DE? Im open to all suggestions. I have enough money I believe to buy performance internals for my KA. THanks.

Also this will be a daily driver :pface(So whats a good compression for pistons for daily but trying to hit at least 260 whp) I know im not going to get there with just the rebuild but want as much help to get there and I think building your internals up is the fastest way to get more power out of your aftermarket bolt ons

[corn322]

You do know that you will have to spend an assload of money to get it to 260hp, right?

[kpark129]

yeah.. just say money wasnt an object what internal parts would i need to get there?

[xxtrizz]

no he could spend his money on a one time spurt of rocket fuel that shoudl get him 260 hp. But it doesnt take horsepower to drift around corners ladies and gentlemen take the ae87 drift machine from hell!

[Checkered-Member]

Take this process:

http://www.racetep.com/240sxna.html

Add forged rods, forged valves, with titanium spring retainers,Add every possible bolt-on, remove all non essential belt driven components.

Move redline to 8,000rpm (tune it so that peak hp/tq will be around 7,500 if that’s at all possible)

That should get you around 260And will cost you 10 grand

You can take that 10 grand and get an internally built KAT, and instead of 260hp you will have closer to 360hp

[03frontyka24]

Drop in a smallblock chevy

[CarloSR]

That´s impossible.

[trpower7]

260hp on an NA KA24DE is impossible. Well, it's not impossible. But for you it is. You won't do it. You'll never get there. You won't even get close. I'll tip my hat to you if you can somehow squeeze out 200rwhp. This isn't small block here where a couple of compression points gets you another 100hp. We've all discussed this a million times.

[03frontyka24]

That´s impossible.

What's impossible?

[Touchdown038]

That´s impossible.

Ahhh, somebody obviously hasn't seen Aries' car.

And I'm sure there's plenty of other people that have done it too.

Just goes to show that everything is possible with enough money and time.

[trpower7]

Yeah that was a truly ignorant statement. I can put a damend Pratt and Whitney in a 240 with enough time and $$. Seriously, are people this dumb??

[corn322]

yes, yes they are.

it would take so much work to get a ka to 260 hp that it woulnd't be worth it. unless you just happen to have an extra 10 grand sitting around.

which if you do, let me have $1800. I'd like a new car.

[03frontyka24]

I don't know that it would take 10k, but it would take more than a turbo or engine swap that could put out a lot more than 260 hp.

[s13ofdoom]

my suggestion and i dont wanna be a jerk and just say go sr. but look at it this way SR u get ur low milage turbo, transmission, motor. run u 2500k if u install 3500 installed. then u can go with straight pipe, manifold, cams, cam gears, injectors, fuel pump, mbc,fmic, intake and id put ras's, koyo radiator, oil pan and since u have money a turbo timer. all this will run u 3-5k + motor 2-3k depending on what u can install. this is one of my plans for now i haven't actually done anything yet but i have big plans and some money.

[s13ofdoom]

o and if u really have money get a big turbo and build the internals. or put a chevy crate in.

[TrunkMonkey]

my suggestion and i dont wanna be a jerk and just say go sr. but look at it this way SR u get ur low milage turbo, transmission, motor. run u 2500k if u install 3500 installed. then u can go with straight pipe, manifold, cams, cam gears, injectors, fuel pump, mbc,fmic, intake and id put ras's, koyo radiator, oil pan and since u have money a turbo timer. all this will run u 3-5k + motor 2-3k depending on what u can install. this is one of my plans for now i haven't actually done anything yet but i have big plans and some money.

you just broke golden rule #1 of the KA forums.

if the best answer you can give is to put in an sr, then don't answer. it's bad enough when people tell someone to go turbo when they want to stay n/a, but to suggest an sr!?!

this is a ka forum. doing an sr swap IS NOT an acceptable answer here.

-demetrius

[s13ofdoom]

ahhahahahahah. i didn't say its the right thing to do, all i am saying is look at that option if everyone is bagging on him for wanting 260hp from a n/a and his ka is old. it looks like the best option to me but he can do what ever he wants . maybe he's been stuck in the KA forum and cant find his way out.

[TrunkMonkey]

maybe he's been stuck in the KA forum and cant find his way out.

maybe this applies to you .

but seriously, the sr is an option. but because of problems in the past (see the first post in the SR20DET sucks sticky) it's not an answer that's allowed in these forums.

-demetrius

[Rev_D21]

LOL!!

[03frontyka24]

What options are there to bore and stroke the KA24? Most cranks can be stroked a little by grinding down and recentering the rod journals and using undersize journal bearings or different rods.

Can you go overbore on the KA24? Has anyone overbored with sleeves?

Bore and stroke, and drop in some good cams, port and polish, lighten the flywheel, etc...

A turbo on the KA24 would be cheaper, and IMHO better than a SA swap, a lot of KA24's have been turbo'd, but the mid 200's should be reachable on a KA24 with NA, although the cams you will need will hurt streetability.

[trpower7]

Niether of those will work. If you've ever looked at a KA you'll know it can't be bored, the cylinder walls are quite thin at the moment. The maximum you can go is MAYBE a .040 over-bore, which will make no appreciable changes indisplacement. The KA is already an oversquare motor, you try to stroke it any more and you're looking at a very rough, 5K RPM redline engine. You can't get 260HP out of an NA KA. You just can't. Period. Put gigantic cams in it, raise the compression to some stupid level, you won't even GET CLOSE. Listen to the veterans, please. We know what we're talking about. IF you want mid-200s look for a turboKA.

We also know all about turbo KAs and we have a forum for them. There is no part of this discussion that hasn't been done a million times. I suggest you use the search function and find yourself some reasonable answers the veterans have put up. I'm not even dignifying the idea of putting an SR in a frontier, it's such blasphemy I can't even believe it..........

[03frontyka24]

100hp per liter is not an outlandish goal on a 4 banger.

I asked if anyone had tried a stroker crank, or boring with sleeves, I guess your answer is no, you just assume it won't work.

Isn't a longer stroke than bore called undersquare not oversquare, expert?

The KA24 has a bore to stroke ratio of 1.07, up to 1.10 is not going to make a very rough 5k redline, and stroking a stock crank won't get you near 1.1.

[Phax]

100hp per liter is not an outlandish goal on a 4 banger.

It IS an outlandish goal on an NA KA24DE. You would be a moron, a true MORON, to spend the cash you'd have to spend to get 250+ hp out of an NA KA. The kind of engine work that would be required would be so frickin expensive, that the only response you'd get would be, "You spent how much, for what?!? Haaaaa, you idiot!!!!"

I just had this conversation with my mechanic and the guy who bought my old 510, that they dropped the KA24DE into. The guy with the 510 wants to build a severe all motor KA. There's no reasonable way to do it. There isn't much room to bore it, the rod / stroke ratio is already pushing the limits as is. The most you could get is maybe 2.5 to 2.6 liters but then you run into the problem of not being able to rev it high enough.

[deviousKA]

i havent really read this post till now, and i feel i have a few things to add.

On the subject of overboring a ka, it can be done. I have bored a ka block until i hit a passage to see how much material was available (because i use/sell 91.1mm overbore piston kits, thats .080" over btw). I feel that 91.5 is the furthest one could go, any more than that and hotspotting will be a problem. Btw ka24e truck blocks seem to have the thickest cylinder walls, although not as thick as z20 siamesed block when bored to same spec.

260hp is very obtainable with either ka, de or e in a naturally aspirated state. This has been done time and time again so there should be no argument. This is in no way easy or cheap, but it can be done. I know a handful of 240+hp street driven ka's.

Also, i have seen and talked to a few people who have increased the displacement of their KA, besides me. 98mm stroke 91mm bore (2600) is one setup i have seen, and i know of a super stroker 2.7l project as well. Problems with this other than what has previously been mentioned is that the valve diameter becomes to small to flow for the displacement. Larger valves and major porting is a must.

Btw. 260 na hp is a much different from 260 turbo hp, especially on the track

[BoostFab]

with the proper fuel+ignition management and tuning, boosted KA24de can be reliable around 300hp+, although i'm not sure about NA setup.

[MarkEmark]

I know the post says DE, but I saw at the New England SCCA championships at lime rock in september a GT3 240SX SOHC KA24DE that was carburetted, and naturally aspirated making 240+ whp, granted this was a full out race-car. I just wanted to show you that it can be done. For those skeptics out there, this 240sx absolutely raped race-prepped late-model corvettes.

[trpower7]

Yes, my terminology was backwards. Continueing:

Nissan says .040 maximum overbore. Period. You want to go higher, be my guest, but don't whine when it busts into a water passage or you crack a block in two.

Show me these cars, and dyno sheets, and tell me technical specifications on who decided to make a stroker crank for you and the ludicrous amounts it cost. You think you can push an engine with a bore out to the limit you suggest and a ridiculous stroke like you suggest and expect it to not implode? You overrev the sucker once and you're looking at piston speed I don't even like to think about.

Most people who try to extract more than 100hp per naturally aspirated litre are looking at very large bore short stroke engines (IE, S2000 engine). These rely on a high redline to be able to achieve maximum power, also at the cost of a torque loss. The KA is plainly not that. The people that have extricated THE MOST proven NA horsepower on a KA have done it with an 11.0 to 1 ish compression ratio, stock stroke, and individual carburated throttle bodies. They got about 240whp. Also keep in mind, that no street driven 240 has this setup as far as any of our knowledge goes. It's insanely expensive and doesn't yield itself to any real street use. You can maybe get 200rwhp on a high compression setup with every bolt on imagineable, an ECU retune, and some fine dyno tuning. Maybe. Very few have been able to. You want to not deal with a turbo and the hassles you get there.? Go get an N20 setup. 100-shot and you are right at your power goals.

[03frontyka24]

Yes, my terminology was backwards. Continueing:

Nissan says .040 maximum overbore. Period.

Nissan says 143hp for my KA24DE and a 6k redline, LOL. I never saw any iron engine where you couldn't double the max bore.

100hp per liter is not unachievable. Sure it will be more expensive NA than turbo, but if you think it can't be done on a KA24 then you don't know crap about motors.

You say the KA is to oversquare (but you mean undersquare) to stroke more, I guess you never heard of a QA25DE, eh?

How much does a stroker crank cost? Depends on who you can talk into doing it, there are shops doing stroker grinds for cranks at $200, will they do a nissan KA24 crank? You tell me how many said no to you, expert.

The KA hasn't even been scratched yet, to make claims that stroking it or that 100hp per liter are impossible or outragiously expensive just shows your limit, not the blocks limit.

[MarkEmark]

Trpower7 didn't say 100 hp/liter is unachievable. He said MORE than it would only be achievable by literally changing the dynamics of the torquey KA engine. That, and that such power from an NA engine would need some incredibly precise tuning and is probably only achievable in an engine that would be used strictly for racing (such as the carburetted 240rwhp one I saw).

[03frontyka24]

Trpower7 didn't say 100 hp/liter is unachievable.

He said it couldn't be bored or stroked, he didn't even know undersquare from oversquare, and he said he was an expert, he's 0 for 3 and out of here.