I got a "Top Kill" for ya...

[IBCoupe]

Which promises are pertinent to this situation?

And was it your training in the boy scouts that suggests to you that sand barriers would prevent oil from reaching shore, when there are experts with conflicting estimations on that mark? What'd your boy scouts training tell you about the efficacy of BP's ocean floor antics prior to their implementation?

I wouldn't suggest that you have no leg to stand on in your complaints, but I'm not going to give you a free pass when your complaints aren't internally consistent.

[stebo0728]

Ok ive just typed and deleted 4 different comments that didnt soudn right ... my brain is fried on this temporarily ... i dont care who cleans it, lets just get it cleaned so the news folks can find something else to talk about ... blahh ...

[WDRacing]

Have they said why the nuke approach won't work here? Just curious since IMO, it's time to throw the hail marry and get this b**** closed up. I was just wondering if they had specific reasons for not trying the nuke, like the plate is to thin or something.

[stebo0728]

Well I am not sure as to the complete reasoning but this crew BO put together to analyze the idea said NO. Dunno if they were considering the in crust approach or just a sea floor approach.

[stebo0728]

WARNING - SARCASM ALERT - WARNING

Ive got it, no need to plug the hole, lets just periodically pass legislation deeming the oil to be considered sea water, and lets forbid the coast guard from chemically profiling and removing the oil. This logic seems to solve immigration, why cant it work for the oil leak too?

[AZhitman]

WARNING - SARCASM ALERT - WARNING

Ive got it, no need to plug the hole, lets just periodically pass legislation deeming the oil to be considered sea water, and lets forbid the coast guard from chemically profiling and removing the oil. This logic seems to solve immigration, why cant it work for the oil leak too?

WINNER.

[AZhitman]

And was it your training in the boy scouts that suggests to you that sand barriers would prevent oil from reaching shore, when there are experts with conflicting estimations on that mark?

What'd your boy scouts training tell you about the efficacy of BP's ocean floor antics prior to their implementation?

Let's not besmirch my boyhood experiences, that won't end well.

Sand barriers most certainly will work, just like they protect homes from flooding in high-water-prone areas.

Since you asked, the Boy Scouts taught me to BE PREPARED. Maybe the BP engineers should have been Boy Scouts too, then they'd have had a contingency plan.

[IBCoupe]

I'm not trying to besmirch your experience, AZ. But consider this article. Might you be sacrificing cleaner beaches now for harder times ahead?

But as Jindal and other politicians celebrate the partial victory, coastal researchers warn that the project can't be built in time to help — even if it had been approved when first proposed last month. And scientists warn that it may have unforeseen consequences.

The berm system could reroute the spill up the Mississippi Delta, and it would be unlikely to survive even a mild storm during the current hurricane season.

It also will absorb the short supplies of sand badly needed for projects to restore the state's coastline, damaged by past hurricanes.

Heavy equipment, including barges and dredge lines, could interfere with nesting season, now at its peak, for protected bird species.

Even Coast Guard Adm. Thad Allen, who ultimately approved the project, was lukewarm in his endorsement.

"There are a lot of doubts whether this is a valid oil spill response technique, given the length of construction and so forth," he said in announcing the first of six berm sites at Scofield Island, west of the Mississippi River. "We are not averse to attempting this as a prototype."

[stebo0728]

Heavy equipment, including barges and dredge lines, could interfere with nesting season, now at its peak, for protected bird species.

Big friggin woop ... no reason here not to proceed ... birds can nest next year

[WDRacing]

I was in Spec Ops and Combat Rescue for 13 years. In that time I was exposed to lots of decisions that were beyond my pay grade. However, 99% of the decisions were made examining the big picture. The first goal should be to stop the oil flow. This should be done at almost ANY cost. Loss of animal and plant life is ALREADY happening. If we don't stop the oil flow, things will compound and continue to compound on a daily basis.

It doesn't matter who did what to me, or who didn't do what for that matter. Lets stop the flow and prevent oil spreading. At this point in the mission, we need to do any and all things possible.

So, IMHO, wild life be damned for the moment. Humans only do one thing well, consume. We'll keep on doing it until the whole planet is used up. This is NEVER going to change, no matter how many animals get placed on a list or how many hippies strap themselves to bulldozers. So bring in the equipment and feed the people working endangered animal stew until the oil is cleaned up and the flow is cut off. Just get the damn job done.

We're close to being in an "all or nothing" position here. When the next well that's being drilled does nothing to stop the flow of oil what will we do?

Perhaps BO will make another trip and shake hands and make promises about who's paying the bills.

People hate Bush, but he would have declared war on BP, taken over the entire company, placed himself as CEO, secured our nations petroleum future and nuked the well by now...all while playing golf and eating terrorists.

[IBCoupe]

While I can respect that position, I can't help but point to why we're trying to stop the oil spill in the first place: we're trying to save the environment so that we can continue to use it.

If taking these measures is going to negatively affect the livelihoods we're trying desperately to protect, maybe these measures aren't the right ones.

Ultimately, the government approved them, but I'm not sure that they were wrong to be skeptical. Especially if there was no way for them to be constructed in time to protect the coast, even if approved immediately.

There's a lot of emotion driving public opinion about this issue, and I'm generally skeptical of emotion-driven arguments and goals. But that's just me.

[WDRacing]

They said, "they might not be built in time" and the oil "might" flow with the water current changes resulting from man made islands. MIGHT...there was no definitive answer.

We aren't saving anything right now is my point. We can save things later, we can rebuild later. What we need to do is stop the oil. All things being expendable until the oil flow is stopped because until it's stopped we're just willing participants in a circle jerk of he said she said.

The Fed Gov should have stepped in and taken over, I don't care what the Coast Guard mouth piece is saying. At his rank he's nothing but a Politician and anyone with Military back ground will say the same.

Picture a 20" pipe, now figure out a way to plug it. Do so at all costs. Take BP OUT of the picture, they are a company that wants oil, they have a vested interest in doing this in a fashion where they will benefit. That means they are the wrong people to be in control. I don't care about legality, what are they REALLY going to do...nothing. They will do as told.

Ever use a tap and die set? Why haven't we run a tap into the top of the pipe? We haven't even tried that sort of thing because BP has been focused on recovering oil...recovering oil. They have tried to "cap" the pipe...but the "cap" was attached to a hose to gather the venting oil not plug the hole. The same thing with the big box idea...all methods to gather the oil, not stop it's flow.

You keep asking what the Fed Gov could be doing that they aren't, they should be running this entire operation because our interests are different from BP's.

[IBCoupe]

We're trying to is my point, because we have a stake in having a healthy ecosystem there, because we eat from it.

That 20" is 5000ft below the surface. How is it you want the federal government to plug it up? Drop a bunch of rocks from the surface and hope they fall in the right spot?

The fact remains that BP is the only one with the means to do something about it.

[audtatious]

B wants the Gov to use a tactical nuke to seal it up

[bigbadberry3]

Does someone need some campaign funds? Me thinks so...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2660

[WDRacing]

The fact remains that BP is the only one with the means to do something about it.

How did you come to that determination? Was it from the Admin looking for a scape goat? Was it from the USCG? The US has had disaster plans on the books for years that almost mirror the oil companies, most likely because they used ours as a model in order to get all the required permits and associated licensing to drill. I've done war time supply asset requisition before. We either have the ability on-hand somewhere or we've got contracts to get the task done accordingly.

It was decided to let BP handle this and it was a bad one. We're on month 2 and the very best efforts by BP have yielded exactly NADA. After 20 days of fumbling around we should have stepped in and assumed full control. If that meant aquiring BP's equipment and manning then so be it. But all of the decisions made should have done by us, not a for profit company.

That's just the way I feel coupled with my experience on how we can respond as a country to almost any disaster anywhere on the globe. With our man power and no budget we should be debating clean-up and environmental prerogatives by now, not watching the same pipe still dumping oil into the Gulf.

For the record, we could have easily tested the low yield tactical nuke option in other area's by now so we could know either way if it would work. THAT is what I consider doing everything. Not simply waiting for a company to make failed attempt after failed attempt.

If that comes off as emotional then so be it, it's been 2 months and I'm unsatisfied with the current Gov on almost all aspects. In my eyes this is just another failure. But whether or not you're a fan, you have got to ask yourself, "seriously? is this the best we can do"?

[stebo0728]

Damn thats funny, even better is reading all the leftist ludicrous comments the people left on that article...simply amazing

[WDRacing]

Does someone need some campaign funds? Me thinks so...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts2660

It's knowing we have people in office like this that help me come to some of the conclusions I do. That dude is a dirt bag to the 10th. I can see the other Republicans mouths opening as they universally take a half step backwards

Pure comedy from the White House

[stebo0728]

SO ... 9/11 brought us the Department of Homeland Security.

Could we now be looking at the forming of the Department of Environmental Security?

[stebo0728]

Just put a wedding ring on the end of the pipe ... i promise it'll stop putting out if you do that ...

[IBCoupe]

I can't take the nuclear warhead option seriously... I'm sorry, it sounds too... science-fictiony.

[WDRacing]

I can't take the nuclear warhead option seriously... I'm sorry, it sounds too... science-fictiony.

I do love the SYFY

[stebo0728]

It sounded too science fictiony when they were talking about dropping it on japs too .... it worked

[IBCoupe]

Yeah, but we like dolphins more than we liked the Japanese. I think we used it because it was dangerous. I'm suggesting that we shouldn't use it now because it's dangerous.

[WDRacing]

Our Nuclear ability has become quite advanced since we dropped the bomb on those SOBs. We're talking low yield tactical type nukes. Not the Fat Man and Little Boy.

I believe strongly that Nuclear power is the future of all energy requirements, to include space travel. I know that's SYFY, but it's clearly the most powerful source of energy currently known. We just need to devote more time and $$ into furthering it's usage and application. Talk about creating American Jobs...

[AZhitman]

birds can nest next year

Ummm, they've LEFT the area. Or died.

[AZhitman]

Just put a wedding ring on the end of the pipe ... i promise it'll stop putting out if you do that ...

You, sir, are awesome.

I all seriousness, I'm with B on this one. PLUG the goddamn hole. I don't want to see the idiots in Washington grilling that pantywaist from BP, I don't want to hear BO spouting off about all the crap he's promising, I don't want to hear how the Coast Guard and BP are obstructing cleanup efforts.

Put ALL available resources ON THAT PIPE.

Cripes, we considered raising the Titanic. We put men on the moon, we put a lander on Mars, we fly into space and back for fun. FIX THE GODDAMN HOLE.

[IBCoupe]

I don't think you're comprehending how otherworldly it is down there. We've explored more of space than we have of the ocean floor. The moon was a cakewalk. What aren't we throwing at the pipe, besides nuclear weapons? It's the same question I asked before, but this time, instead of the cleanup, focus on your primary concern: plugging the whole.

And contrary to what WDRacing has suggested, BP's first efforts were to plug the whole - they tried getting the emergency mechanism to function, they tried pumping the hole with sealant & other crap. A lot of the concern has been about plugging up the immense gaseous pressures and having it blow out worse than this 20-inch hole. This is not a normal situation, this is 5000 feet below the surface.

it's wondrously easy to say, "Plug the whole," but it's another thing to be able to do it, and, while I'll be happy to point out that they're not actually doing it, I'm not so keen on suggesting that they're not actually trying.

[stebo0728]

Check this out ...

http://abcnews.go.com/WN/bp-oil-spill-g ... d=10946379

Yet another problem with government bureaucracy, someone sitting around with nothing to do so lets look busy, stop these skimmers and make sure they have fire extinguishers ...

Kinda like a cop pulling a fire truck over while its on the way to a fire, just because it has a cracked tail light ... simply amazing!

[WDRacing]

I fully understand how deep scary it is, however, I don't think you're understanding just how many various resources we have available. We could acquire any number of submersibles rated to go that deep.



We could have easily built a rig to lower and insert one of those by now.