I bought a Kindle. I don't know why.

[Jesda]

Woot.com is doing a $150 deal ($40 off regular price) on a brand new Kindle to celebrate Amazon's acquisition of the site. The one reason I don't do more reading is the physical media of books themselves. Unless they're large textbooks, they require constant holding to stay open and they aren't searchable.

I figure, its a wireless email device with free unlimited 3G data service, and some people have hacked it to use Google Maps and crudely browse the web. Most of the classic western literature I intend to read is free anyway.

Of course, it could be terrible -- another weird impulsive purchase. I need to get off the internet.

[Razi]

What have you done?!?!?!

Hacking it to use Google maps seems useful.
I just use my Nintendo DS to read books, puny screen but it works out.

[MinisterofDOOM]

I like the Nook a lot more than the Kindle. Nook actually has a stock browser (though it only works over wifi), FWIW.

I still dislike the idea of such a single-purpose, functionally-restricted device, but messing around with a friend's Nook has me thinking I'd like one. Not for $200...but I would like one.

The real problem with both is that despite the strong hacking communities, they're limited by the horrible refresh rates of their e-ink displays. You can hack it to browse the web, but you can't really do much with non-static pages, especially since the e-ink displays are not touch-sensitive.

Amazon released the Kindle app for Android a couple days ago. I downloaded it and was HUGELY disappointed. It requires you to log in each time you use it--no "remember me" or "log me in automatically" button. And since it's not run in the browser, the OS won't do that for you either.
But most ridiculously, clicking the "Kindle Store" button on the application LAUNCHES THE WEB BROWSER and sends you to the kindle store website. What the hell's the point of a dedicated application if you're just going to hand off the work to a web browser?
Really crude UI, bad functionality, not streamlined at all. Very disappointing.

[PoorManQ45]

Wait! It has free unlimited 3G!

I may look into one once they hack it to be able to tether a laptop to it!

[Jesda]

Wait! It has free unlimited 3G!

I may look into one once they hack it to be able to tether a laptop to it!

That would be nice, but it has no wifi, bluetooth, or USB.

[IanS]

Im excited to hear your review of it. Not so much because I want one, but because I always enjoy reading your product reviews (is that wierd?). You should try being a product reviewer professionally, you do it enough as it is, might as well get paid for it.

E readers dont really entice me. I like the feeling of a good old book. Even the smell is relaxing to me for some reason. Not to mention a bookcase full of your favourite books says something about a person. It adds to a room better than any piece of art. Maybe I'm just old fashioned.

Im not saying E readers are bad, just not my thing. Although unlimited 3G is intriguing.

[Razi]

I love the feeling of holding and reading a real book as well, but I read e-books when I want to read a rare book that's hard or too expensive to purchase.

[AppleBonker]

Amazon released the Kindle app for Android a couple days ago. I downloaded it and was HUGELY disappointed. It requires you to log in each time you use it--no "remember me" or "log me in automatically" button. And since it's not run in the browser, the OS won't do that for you either...

It's the same on iDevices. Although I kind of figured that was Apple exerting their control and trying to maintain an edge in terms of user friendliness with their iBooks offering. Can you dim the screen all the way down on the Android when in the Kindle app? I've noticed that I can set the iPad to have virtually no back light in iBooks, but it stays a lot brighter in Kindle.

Jesda, thanks for pointing out this deal. I've got myself covered with the iPad, but I think I may know some people who would be interested. And I probably wouldn't have looked at woot! today without you mentioning it.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Actually, you've got it backward with rare books in my experience. For instance, neither Nook nor Kindle have the Dune Encyclopedia, which I have in print. Usually if it's rare because it's out of print, you're screwed on the digital front, while you can still hunt down used print copies. If it's available for purchase digitally it'll likely be available in print.

[PoorManQ45]

Wait! It has free unlimited 3G!

I may look into one once they hack it to be able to tether a laptop to it!

That would be nice, but it has no wifi, bluetooth, or USB.

The kindle has a Micro USB port. This is used for both power and data transfer. You'll notice that when you get yours that the power cord is simply a transformer with a USB port.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Can you dim the screen all the way down on the Android when in the Kindle app? I've noticed that I can set the iPad to have virtually no back light in iBooks, but it stays a lot brighter in Kindle.

Backlight isn't affected by running programs...so yeah, you can dim it quite a bit with Kindle running.

[AppleBonker]

Interesting. I think there is a brightness control in-app on the iDevices. I could easily be wrong though. I just distinctly remember not being able to turn the brightness down low enough while reading the iPad version of the Kidnle app in dark rooms. I'd be interested to see how different it is on Android tablets once they begin releasing.

[szh]

Folks, the "free, unlimited 3G" myth of the Kindle is just that, a myth. Don't waste your time and money is my advice!

The cellular operators who support Amazon's Whispernet are generating regular reports of the usage of these units (they can also easily track the sites that the units go to, etc.). Anything that violates the expected use can, and will, get shut down over the air for non-paying customers. The cellular radios in these units support this capability quite trivially and Amazon/carriers can and will use this shutdown capability in a heartbeat.

Z

[Jesda]

The kindle has a Micro USB port. This is used for both power and data transfer. You'll notice that when you get yours that the power cord is simply a transformer with a USB port.

Iiiinteresting. I doubt, however, that it would be able to function as a USB host for any storage or connectivity devices.

[IanS]

Folks, the "free, unlimited 3G" myth of the Kindle is just that, a myth. Don't waste your time and money is my advice!

The cellular operators who support Amazon's Whispernet are generating regular reports of the usage of these units (they can also easily track the sites that the units go to, etc.). Anything that violates the expected use can, and will, get shut down over the air for non-paying customers. The cellular radios in these units support this capability quite trivially and Amazon/carriers can and will use this shutdown capability in a heartbeat.

Z

Why is this not surprising.

[PoorManQ45]

Folks, the "free, unlimited 3G" myth of the Kindle is just that, a myth. Don't waste your time and money is my advice!

The cellular operators who support Amazon's Whispernet are generating regular reports of the usage of these units (they can also easily track the sites that the units go to, etc.). Anything that violates the expected use can, and will, get shut down over the air for non-paying customers. The cellular radios in these units support this capability quite trivially and Amazon/carriers can and will use this shutdown capability in a heartbeat.

Z

Interesting. Sounds like some spoofing would be needed . "What do you mean I can't download 5GB worth of books a month!"

The kindle has a Micro USB port. This is used for both power and data transfer. You'll notice that when you get yours that the power cord is simply a transformer with a USB port.

Iiiinteresting. I doubt, however, that it would be able to function as a USB host for any storage or connectivity devices.

It's a stretch, but they've already gotten Google Maps running on it. So that shows that it is able to be reprogrammed.

[szh]

Folks, the "free, unlimited 3G" myth of the Kindle is just that, a myth. Don't waste your time and money is my advice!

The cellular operators who support Amazon's Whispernet are generating regular reports of the usage of these units (they can also easily track the sites that the units go to, etc.). Anything that violates the expected use can, and will, get shut down over the air for non-paying customers. The cellular radios in these units support this capability quite trivially and Amazon/carriers can and will use this shutdown capability in a heartbeat.

Interesting. Sounds like some spoofing would be needed . "What do you mean I can't download 5GB worth of books a month!"

Uhhuh. Sure.

What exactly were you thinking of "spoofing"? Do you have access to the Amazon billing system databases? Or the cellular operator AAA systems? Wow! I bow to your amazing knowledge and skills! (Of course, if you are that good a hacker, then you really don't need to hack a Kindle to get free cellular data usage. )

So ... will Amazon have a record of those 5GB of Kindle book purchases tied to that device's Amazon account? (BTW, the Kindle can only go live on the air if you have an Amazon account, otherwise all you have is a bizarre looking - and quite dead - cell phone.)

If so, then you can use the Kindle quite happily indeed!

Of course, by the time you end up paying for that many Kindle books in any month, you might as well have bought the $60 accounts from one of the operators - almost all of them provide free data cards for those types of accounts!

But ... if no Kindle book purchases are recorded in that Amazon account, then you are SOL.

The kindle has a Micro USB port. This is used for both power and data transfer. You'll notice that when you get yours that the power cord is simply a transformer with a USB port.

Iiiinteresting. I doubt, however, that it would be able to function as a USB host for any storage or connectivity devices.

It's a stretch, but they've already gotten Google Maps running on it. So that shows that it is able to be reprogrammed.[/quote]
Certainly reprogrammable to a limited degree - the Kindle uses a modified real-time Linux operating system. So, demonstrating access to a few web sites or other applications is certainly possible.

That is, however, a moot point. Once a unit starts doing high usage, without paying for books, the likelihood that you will be able to do it for any length of time (past a few days to a few weeks max), is near zero.

Feel free to waste your time if you want. But, being in the M2M cellular data business (and having also taken two Kindles apart for other purposes entirely, and also looked at their source code), I can assure you that the "free" aspect of the network is quite well managed in this particular case.

Z

[szh]

The kindle has a Micro USB port. This is used for both power and data transfer. You'll notice that when you get yours that the power cord is simply a transformer with a USB port.

Iiiinteresting. I doubt, however, that it would be able to function as a USB host for any storage or connectivity devices.

Correct. You would need to write an application on the Kindle to use it as a storage device, and, frankly, normal USB storage keys are a whole lot cheaper (for the cost per GB).

Z

[PoorManQ45]

Interesting. Sounds like some spoofing would be needed . "What do you mean I can't download 5GB worth of books a month!"

Uhhuh. Sure.

What exactly were you thinking of "spoofing"? Do you have access to the Amazon billing system databases? Or the cellular operator AAA systems? Wow! I bow to your amazing knowledge and skills! (Of course, if you are that good a hacker, then you really don't need to hack a Kindle to get free cellular data usage. )

Z

I didn't look into the device completely. I didn't realize that you had to have an account.

I definitely understand what you're saying about the excessive activity easily being flagged.

I believe it would be more of a proof of concept type situation.

[szh]

I didn't look into the device completely. I didn't realize that you had to have an account.

Yup. Can't activate the unit without an Amazon account.

I definitely understand what you're saying about the excessive activity easily being flagged.

Good. A lot of effort has been put into monitoring the data bytes being used by all devices. In the future, with the all-IP cellular networks just around the corner (like LTE and WiMAX), this work will be even more useful.

Unlike the wired Internet ISP model, the wireless Internet ISP model charges "per byte" (along with plans to use a max GB per month for fixed fees).

This is because, unlike the wired model till you get deep into the backbone, the spectrum is shared by all users at that cellular location.

I believe it would be more of a proof of concept type situation.

You can do a proof of concept, certainly! It has been done already with those other apps on it.

However, people need to realize that cellular hacking and fraud is a multi-billion dollar loss for cellular operators - so they put a lot of time and money into fraud detection systems to avoid those losses.

And, yes, they looked at the business model of the Kindle quite carefully (since it is essentially a "pay for usage only" model, without any monthly charges) and made sure to put the processes and systems in place to avoid the excessive, or unlicensed, usage problems.

Z

[PoorManQ45]

However, people need to realize that cellular hacking and fraud is a multi-billion dollar loss for cellular operators - so they put a lot of time and money into fraud detection systems to avoid those losses.

Z

What is your viewpoint on cellular providers going to a limited bandwidth data plan on cellphones? Example, The Verizon Droid X is supposed to have the option of a wifi hotspot for an additional $20 a month(on top of data plan), but they say you're limited to 5GB with tethered devices, whereas the data on the phone directly is "unlimited".

Any input about this? How expensive are data plans for the providers?

[Jesda]

Really, its going to be hard to use a whole lot of data on a black and white device that does email and books. It does newspapers too, a big selling point for me. Would be nice if I could also pull up the drudge report.

For whatever reason, it has Facebook.

[szh]

However, people need to realize that cellular hacking and fraud is a multi-billion dollar loss for cellular operators - so they put a lot of time and money into fraud detection systems to avoid those losses.

Z

What is your viewpoint on cellular providers going to a limited bandwidth data plan on cellphones?

It is imminent - if not already in place for many operators already.

The concept of unlimited works on cell phones - for the time being. This is because using 5GB or more on a cell-phone (without tethering, of course) is quite tough. Can you see yourself typing that many sites and searches and downloads and real Intenet usage from a cell phone? Will not happen. Which is why offering "unlimited" on a cell phone is a safe bet for now.

However, when you can start downloading movies onto your cell phone - without using the special services that provide such video content (like Verizon offers), that "unlimited" usage terms will go away quickly.

How expensive are data plans for the providers?

Tough to answer. Each wireless operator is different and their system/equipment costs are different - technology, size of company, number of purchases, timing of purchases, cost of deployment, regional charges, etc., etc., etc., all play a part.

Once the capital equipment is paid for, then the only operating cost is the data transport in the network, system maintenance, roaming charges when off-network, people costs, etc. This is not something I can quantify easily for them.

BTW, all of the publicly traded operators provide their 10Q and other financial statements openly - you can examine their margins. But translating this to a cost per byte is not easy, of course.

Z

[szh]

Really, its going to be hard to use a whole lot of data on a black and white device that does email and books.

Exactly right!

Mostly the same for color cell-phones too - tough to really exceed those limits set by the carriers. Even my use on my data card (for a PC) is quite low.

In theory, I could exceed the limits if I were continuously downloading movies or something like that on my cell-phone. But that is an unusual event, rather than commonplace, for almost everybody!

Z

[PoorManQ45]

It is imminent - if not already in place for many operators already.

The concept of unlimited works on cell phones - for the time being. This is because using 5GB or more on a cell-phone (without tethering, of course) is quite tough. Can you see yourself typing that many sites and searches and downloads and real Intenet usage from a cell phone? Will not happen. Which is why offering "unlimited" on a cell phone is a safe bet for now.

Z

This seems like a tricky subject. At what point will they draw the line? One of the large companies is going to a tiered system with first tier being at 250MB!

I have an Android device and it will download more then that in a month simply sitting by itself!

Since you work in the industry you may be able to answer this. How prepared are the providers that you've worked with for massive amounts of bandwidth usage? With millions of Smart devices sold monthly the network utilization is continuously increasing. Based on the current upward trend can you give any kind of estimate as to when the network's current systems will be overrun?

If you can't tell, I am a bit biased on this subject. I am one of the less then 1% that will break any data limitation that is implemented.

I am scared that our devices will be handicapped in the future. If you consider the current trend towards cloud computing, bandwidth usage is only going to continue increasing for even the "average" user. How would this affect the network provider's limitations?

I know that home ISPs are touching on bandwidth caps. This is just insane to me too as I'm a gamer. On an average night two computers will pull/push over a gigabyte!

[Urabus GodofTraction]

eReaders are cool.

I'm not a huge fan of the fact that Amazon can recall or lock out books from your Kindle at will, though. Too much DRM for my tastes.

And I like real books. I have many full bookshelves I use to impress my fellow white people when they visit my house.

[IanS]

It is imminent - if not already in place for many operators already.

The concept of unlimited works on cell phones - for the time being. This is because using 5GB or more on a cell-phone (without tethering, of course) is quite tough. Can you see yourself typing that many sites and searches and downloads and real Intenet usage from a cell phone? Will not happen. Which is why offering "unlimited" on a cell phone is a safe bet for now.

Z

This seems like a tricky subject. At what point will they draw the line? One of the large companies is going to a tiered system with first tier being at 250MB!

I have an Android device and it will download more then that in a month simply sitting by itself!

Since you work in the industry you may be able to answer this. How prepared are the providers that you've worked with for massive amounts of bandwidth usage? With millions of Smart devices sold monthly the network utilization is continuously increasing. Based on the current upward trend can you give any kind of estimate as to when the network's current systems will be overrun?

If you can't tell, I am a bit biased on this subject. I am one of the less then 1% that will break any data limitation that is implemented.

I am scared that our devices will be handicapped in the future. If you consider the current trend towards cloud computing, bandwidth usage is only going to continue increasing for even the "average" user. How would this affect the network provider's limitations?

I know that home ISPs are touching on bandwidth caps. This is just insane to me too as I'm a gamer. On an average night two computers will pull/push over a gigabyte!

Who are you, and what have you done with PMQ?

[Jesda]

I'm not a huge fan of the fact that Amazon can recall or lock out books from your Kindle at will, though. Too much DRM for my tastes.

Are they planning on renting books? I plan on pirating classics written by dead authors.

[Urabus GodofTraction]

I'm not a huge fan of the fact that Amazon can recall or lock out books from your Kindle at will, though. Too much DRM for my tastes.

Are they planning on renting books? I plan on pirating classics written by dead authors.

I dunno.

[MinisterofDOOM]

Really, its going to be hard to use a whole lot of data on a black and white device that does email and books.

Not just black and white.
It's black and white with a nearly intolerable refresh rate.
Remember these are not your average LCD screens. They're NOT designed for any sort of dynamic content. I've used the browser on my friend's Nook and it's pretty much useless. A novelty, but nothing I'd ever REALLY use to actually browse the web. Checking email is a little more along the lines of the devices' capabilities, though.