how to raise the redline to 9k

Post by **Vetal** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

I'm not going to 9000

As I said, 8000-8200 MAXHow much would be set of uprated springs?Also, what is "hardened crank" - how do you do it?

Post by **Jezz_s13** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Sorry, my 9k bit was a response to the thread in general.

I'm trying to get a price from a place in Australia on a set of springs with titanium retainers now, he asked me aload of awkward questions which I've only just been able to find the answers to. I've just mailed him.

I had the crank tuftrided after it was lightened/knifedged.

I stole this...Gas nitriding, hard chroming, and tuftriding are surface-hardening procedures designed to improve crankshaft longevity and, in particular, bearing surface durability. Nitriding is a heat-treating process, while chrome-plating is electrochemical, and tuftriding uses superheated cyanide to achieve the desired surface hardness.

Post by **minutericesentra** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Since a couple of you guys mentioned it, here's a DE high flow oil pump # OPD-27-HV

http://www.importperformancepa....html

Post by **Jezz_s13** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Cheers.

Do you know many/any people using them on the CA18DET?

Post by **minutericesentra** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

I actually haven't heard of anyone using them on the DET, I think someone said they were gonna get one but I don't know if they ever did.

Post by **Jezz_s13** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Right, I have just mailed them to see what they have to say.

Post by **float_6969** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

I hope to get that pump eventually. I'm lacking funds currently. I personally think that 9K is pointless w/o big cams, as you won't make any power up there. Springs and a retainers are a must, and I would personally ditch the hydraulic lifters also. As for the bottom end, I'd get the crank knife edged and cryotreated. DEFINATLY do something with the stock pistons as they are "The weakest link", I'm not sure how I feel about the rods. The UK guys seem so say they're not strong enough, but all the Japanese guys don't ever seem to mess with them. I'd prob just get the stockers shotpeened and cryotreated.

Post by **float_6969** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Oh, and Vetal, you get a medal for hashing up a 1yr old thread. It shows me you're using the search button and I appreciate that more than you know. THANK YOU!!!!

Post by **gore** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

that and it was a great read.

Post by **f s t caz** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

can someone please tell me what a rev counter is? is that european for Tachometer? If so, are they saying the stock tach isn't very accurate at all?

Post by **Vetal** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

float: please hang this medal to my status instead of some strut bar and other crap

Oh yes, I use search button a lot

Returning to the thread... What are solid lifters - just a cylindric peace of metal?Also, how much would be shotpeening (also not sure what it is) and cryotreating?

Post by **Jezz_s13** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

yeah tacho.

It's not very accurate, just like the speedo isn't.

Compared to my AVC-R my tacho is about 200rpm out at 4k and about 3-400rpm out at 7.2k. I'm not sure how linear the error is on the tacho but my speedo isn't very linear it varies between 4% and 7% against the AVC-R between 20mph and 140mph in 10mph increments.For all I know it might not even be repeatable, never studied it that much. LOL.

Post by **Jezz_s13** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Vetal...

http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/_2003....html

Cryotreating in the UK is about this much...http://www.frozensolid.co.uk/

Shot peening is where shot is fired at the component, this prestresses the surface which inhibits carck formation and proporgation.

Post by **Vetal** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Looks like it wouldn't be very hard for experienced machinist to make such lifters

Or am I wrong?I didn't find any prices on that UK site... Also, they claim an increase in horsepower of 2-4% - is this possible?

Post by **Jezz_s13** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Doh sorry, there used to be prices.Steve Carter (SXOC) has dealt with them, I think it work about about £100 to do the bottom end but can't properly remember.

Not sure about the horsepower thing either, wouldn't have thought so??????????

Post by **Vetal** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

100GBP for strengthed components is very good

Considering that just uprated rods cost starting from 600$

Post by **Jezz_s13** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

I'd rather have steel rods any day.

I have lightened, polished, balanced & shot peened rods now, but am waiting (still

) for my Pauter ones to arrive.

Post by **boost_boy** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Quote »Returning to the thread... What are solid lifters - just a cylindric peace of metal?[/quote] Solid lifters on a CA18DET is cylindrical bucket with no hydraulic core like the stock units. They are directly actuated by the camshafts at which time its motion is transferred to the valve stems via little custom fit shims which are placed on top of the valve stems and are always hiding under the bucket. Very tedious process and should be done by an experienced machinist and not the home mechanic. I didn't do mine because I don't have the money to be throwing away because of something I did wrong. When you experiment with solid lifters, be prepared to spend some money.

Dee

Post by **Vetal** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

What's your own rev limit?

Post by **quest** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

going hi-rpm looks like way too much fu$$$$, and stress on components.Add to that reduced engine life. Factor in the unknowns of a hi-strung ca18. Are these solid lifters noisy ?What r u guys trying to do with these lil motors ? I'm curious. Goals?I guess I'm biased coming from buick GNs where we never cared about increasing rpms or displacement. Yet still u wound up with a reliable 100+k mile, 10sec full wt. airconditioned street daily driver pretty easily if u wanted.I'd think you were better off concentrating on a those items that would give u better midrange torque; turbo with more midrange flow + learning and applying the affects of tuning ie., fuel/ignition plus cam duration/degreeing. These things all have a significant effect on torque. Thats what gets u down the road.... assuming thats all u wanna do.

Post by **boost_boy** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Quote »going hi-rpm looks like way too much fu$$$$, and stress on components.[/quote] Very stressful!

Quote »Are these solid lifters noisy ?[/quote] Yes they are!

Quote »What r u guys trying to do with these lil motors ?[/quote] Accomplish a personal goal! I am looking to extract 600+whp out of mine or it will die enroute!

Quote »I guess I'm biased coming from buick GNs where we never cared about increasing rpms or displacement.[/quote] I'm not increasing my displacement either. I think it will be cool that a 110 CID engine can generate that much power. I'm also looking to touch 500whp with my g/f's newly redone CA and drive it away from the dyno with the A/C pumping and the P/S functioning just fine.

Quote »I'd think you were better off concentrating on a those items that would give u better midrange torque; turbo with more midrange flow + learning and applying the affects of tuning ie., fuel/ignition plus cam duration/degreeing. These things all have a significant effect on torque. Thats what gets u down the road.... assuming thats all u wanna do.[/quote] You're right again, man in the fact that people with CA18s seem to want to get their thrills out of revving it. Well, it's not that type of party! Oh sure, they'll revv to nearly 9000rpm, but you're killing your valve guides, rods and mainbearings and otherwise asking for a crap load of trouble on most used motors.

I don't mind people emulating what I do and I don't mind sharing what parts I use, but I paid the price to get where I'm at and the rules strictly state ' There's no skating uphill ' . Learn the motor, its strengths and its weaknesses because it does have a few weaknesses that I care not to discuss.

The CA18DET needs exposure and I plan on being the driver to take it there. Only time will tell though and that's why I've been experimenting for so many years on my G/F's CA18 powered sentra's, so that when I assemble my sentra, no mistakes will be allowed.

One point of interest, the CA18DET can hold it's own on the highway and is geared to handle 150+mph witout a lot of fuss.

Quote »What's your own rev limit?[/quote] I don't really have one. My ecu is set to 9750rpm, but it can possibly go higher, but for what!

Dee

Post by **float_6969** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

We love Dee...

Post by **Jezz_s13** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

I plan to go no higher than 8.5k and I want to do a timed 200mph run which requires just under 8.2k with my current gearing. 9k is madness.So my goal is to have enough torque a 7-8.2k to carry me to 200mph in a sensible distance. By my reckoning 500RWHP @ 8.2k should enable me to do this quite easily.At the same time I want to try keep it as driveable as possible. IE decent power (250-300) at 4.5k.

Whether it'll happen like that, or whether I'll succeed is another thing, but it's my goal and it's fun trying.

AFAIK no CA powered S13 has ran a 200mph in the UK yet.I may happen soon though, not me unfortunately though.I'm far more interested in this than running 10's.

It's probably quite easy to make a 200mph car if it's a one off run, you could probably just stick a huge turbo on a stock lump and hope LOL.

Post by **Vetal** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

quest wrote:What r u guys trying to do with these lil motors ? I'm curious. Goals?

Well, by upping rev limit I try to extract some more HP. CA18DET is considered to be rev-happy engine, if it is so, I want to take advantage of it - otherwise, many production engine can run 7000+ rpm, but they haven't become a sort of legend, like CA. So there's no point in calling it rev-happy if it can do only 7000 rpm like many many other engines.

Post by **Vetal** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

boost_boy wrote: Learn the motor, its strengths and its weaknesses because it does have a few weaknesses that I care not to discuss.

Well that's what internet forums are for - to share your experience and get valuable information without needing every member to build 5-6 engines before he learns smth.

Of course I understand also that if you spend years and thousands on your engine you don't want to give away this info

Post by **boost_boy** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Quote »Of course I understand also that if you spend years and thousands on your engine you don't want to give away this info [/quote] I share it anyways! I don't want people to go through my headaches, although some may want their own taste of it and do things against my suggestions and that's all cool.

Quote »Whether it'll happen like that, or whether I'll succeed is another thing, but it's my goal and it's fun trying.[/quote] Uncertainty is what makes this all the more interesting! We have goals and we think we have a fix on what we're doing, but only time and the engine will tell.

Quote »So there's no point in calling it rev-happy if it can do only 7000 rpm like many many other engines.[/quote] On the contrary, it is very rev happy. However, a used engine and a rev happy driver is a bad mix. There's not a lot of power after 7500rpm, but you can use the extra rpm for some extra mph. Honda motors are made rev, but they still are built from the same alloys as most other engines, so yes, they wear out as well. And the do knock, spit rods out the side of the block, etc, etc.

Dee

Post by **float_6969** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

I still say the inability to make power uptop is due to the cams. With a little head work you could actually rev to 9K and do something with it.

Post by **Vetal** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

boost_boy wrote:I share it anyways! I don't want people to go through my headaches, although some may want their own taste of it and do things against my suggestions and that's all cool.

That's superb

Quote » On the contrary, it is very rev happy. However, a used engine and a rev happy driver is a bad mix. There's not a lot of power after 7500rpm, but you can use the extra rpm for some extra mph. Dee [/quote]So, what does it mean rev-happy? My understanding is, that this engine can be revved to more than OEM 7200 rpms. That'll let me stay longer in higher gear during dragrace, and although engine power might be a little lower than at 6500, torque at wheels still will be much higher due to higher gear. Well, that's my understanding

Post by **boost_boy** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

Quote »So, what does it mean rev-happy? My understanding is, that this engine can be revved to more than OEM 7200 rpms. That'll let me stay longer in higher gear during dragrace, and although engine power might be a little lower than at 6500, torque at wheels still will be much higher due to higher gear. Well, that's my understanding [/quote] True indeed~ Though you don't have as much power in the higher rpm, the CA18 still produces enough tourque/hp to keep you rowing through your gears. The less power you have the slower it rows through gears and vice versa.

Dee

Post by **Vetal** » Mon May 12, 2003 4:46 am

OK, let's sum up this thread.1) To rev to 8200 like I want I need:balanced bottom endprobably uprated valve springs2) To rev to 9000 I need:balanced bottom enduprated valve springssolid lifters

Is that correct? Or I would need smth. else?

how to raise the redline to 9k

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