How ready would you be to swap in a VQ if more info was public, and cheap kits.

[impact240sx]

No no, not trying to be a jerk I was just curious that is all. I mean all I am looking is for fair and honest response and I just wanted to know if you were biased or not since I don't know you and you didn't share your story about your SR. If you said something about it in your original post I would not have needed to ask. I actually like that you took the mature response instead of assuming I was trying to be an a**. And that I like that you actually drove an SR car before actually buying one without knowing how it would be different. Out here kids just get 240's and before they even do anything else they drop SR's into them. Though grant it that 90% of all S chassis are over 150k in miles and its nice knowing you have a lower miles engine.

Oh ok sorry for getting a little offensive, but yeah I only bought the sr because I really loved how it seemed to have good power on only 7 psi, and It seemed like the car was still really light.

The reason why I would have to drive a vq 240 would be because after driving a 350 they seem heavy and not nimble at all, and I'd be afraid that the bigger motor would kind of subtract from the lightness and nimbleness of an s chassis. But I'll admit It would sound sick!! lol

[irax]

Isn't your car already at Juan's house getting it done?

Juan is the one that is doing my wiring and he is my fabrication master. He is the one that produces quality work that I trust and am doing a business partnership persay. This thread is just so I can create buzz and get feed back at the same time.

[irax]

The reason why I would have to drive a vq 240 would be because after driving a 350 they seem heavy and not nimble at all, and I'd be afraid that the bigger motor would kind of subtract from the lightness and nimbleness of an s chassis. But I'll admit It would sound sick!! lol

Well then I have good news, the VQ is lighter than the KA and SR, though the transmission is a bit heavier so over all the weight will be negligable(sp?) due to it being more center mass and not over the front kmember. Imagine a NA SR that puts out 250ish whp with a 6speed and runs on 87 octane. That is what the difference will be.

[impact240sx]

But then

Well then I have good news, the VQ is lighter than the KA and SR, though the transmission is a bit heavier so over all the weight will be negligable(sp?) due to it being more center mass and not over the front kmember. Imagine a NA SR that puts out 250ish whp with a 6speed and runs on 87 octane. That is what the difference will be.

But then I'd have to buy 2 more spark plugs everytime I change them. lolAny ways well How much should I be thinking this swap will be? I already have a walboro 255, so thats 100 cheaper it'll be. If I don't buy a 350z here soon I might be interested in this swap.

[RustspecS13]

The reason why I would have to drive a vq 240 would be because after driving a 350 they seem heavy and not nimble at all, and I'd be afraid that the bigger motor would kind of subtract from the lightness and nimbleness of an s chassis. But I'll admit It would sound sick!! lol

There are pics of a VQ35DE being weighed on a scale at a junkyard, and a KA24DE. Both were 330lbs after the weight of the pallet it was on was deducted. Its on engineswaptech.com or it should be. Allen22 was the guy that helped write the article in SCC and thats his gold/champane s14 with the VQ35 in the pics.

Also being the exact same weight, the v6 is shorter and lower, and the transmission weighs 50-70lbs more, so it moves the weight distribution considerably. Theres talk of broaner moving his s13 around and having the forklift in the middle of the car with the VQ in it, and with the KA in he has it under or almost forward of the drivers seat. Broaner is on engineswaptech and FA I think maybe hes on here too...

But yea, the only neg to a VQ swap is money (and that varies wildly) and fab (which also varies wildly). You get much better weight distribution, more power easier, lots of decent priced aftermarket, BA engine sound, and no VQ swaped car has ever been the same as the next.

~Alex

[Shift_Kouki]

If my KA blows after turboing it... I'd have to weigh the cost of rebuilding the KA (stepping up from the stock internals) against the cost of a VQ swap (and I'd probably need to boost it after having a boosted KA soon. If it turns out to be a decently common swap with good support, I'd consider it if my KA goes down... But not before, and that was not one of the options on the poll lol.

Either way, I'm not in the habit of tossing good motors. Don't see the point. IF / When I swap for a different engine, I've gotta look at the cost, reliability, performance, and difficulty of the swap on my own. While doing that, I have to keep in mind my situation and where my costs might be lower or higher than the average person doing the same thing. Just to read someone else's opinion and take it as fact like a bible smacks of stupidity and would only set myself up for failure.

[SullivanRacing06]

yes, race bread, sure...

wow, you should of posted a pic of a rb30, makes less hp but still has the rb name, is that supposed to prove?

[irax]

wow, you should of posted a pic of a rb30, makes less hp but still has the rb name, is that supposed to prove?

because you were the guy calling it race bread, funny how you edited your post to cover up the fact.

though if I had the money i would build an NA rb30 frankenstien motor for an older Z

[speed breeder]

If I had a choice between engines, id rather spend the cash on an RB into sx swap. Either the 25, or 26, not the 30... think its easier power to obtain, than to try and extract from a VQ... Just my opinion.

I have seen a lot of RB motors in SX and the massive amounts of power extracted - 600hp etc...

I do think however that if more info was available, people may sway more to the higher displacement 3.5l VQ.

Having said this, the VQ with added supercharger etc. or turbochargers still will be limited to just over 400hp on the standard rods, pistons and crank, as the bottom end is not forged.

Forced induction options would be my only choices - RB's are therefore better bases for me.

[dan14sweeney]

Speed Breeder

you may be correct on overall power...but take into consideration the weight of a rb motor I had a 25 in a s13 and it was fast as hell on the freeway bet i tried it at a few autox/drift events and the handeling was not so great, not horrible but definately not good....the vq has plenty of potential as far a forced induction goes and in reality who is going to leave their rb with stock internals anyway if you have the money to swap more than likely you have the money to upgrade the engine as well...i love rb's its just the weight distribution in the s chassis that stops me from owning another.... just my 2 cents

[dan14sweeney]

Any updates on the swap irax?

[irax]

none at this moment as the fabricator got busy with personal stuff.

[dan14sweeney]

all right just checkin

[irax]

My builder promised me that he would concintrate all his time this week on my car alone... if not im going up to his house and slap him around a bit.

[breadbox]

Keep up the good work. Been thinking more and more bout VQ's.

[SullivanRacing06]

because you were the guy calling it race bread, funny how you edited your post to cover up the fact.

though if I had the money i would build an NA rb30 frankenstien motor for an older Z

i edited my post because im not going to argue with you, good luck on your mount kits, and rb stands for race bread, thanks for wasting my time

[simmode1]

^^^You are sooo right. And VQ stands for very quick, KA stands for kick a$$ and SR stands for... ummm... sore rectum?

[irax]

i edited my post because im not going to argue with you, good luck on your mount kits, and rb stands for race bread, thanks for wasting my time

thanks for the good wishes... but please understand, that RB to YOU means Race Breed.

BTW VG30DETT stands for Very Godlike 30 Ducks Eat Tempura Tarts .....LOL!

RB, KA, SR, VQ, QR, L, Z, VG all these motors are not acronyms. the HR is and the VR is.... but officially there is no words be hind R B, K A, S R, V Q, Q R, V G, or any of these older motors

[simmode1]

Ok. I have 2 240's. Originally, I had planned to have one KA-T powered and the other VQ powered. But now, since I've decided to sell my s14, I've pretty much committed myself to going VQ in my s13.

After thinking it over, to fully build a KA to the way I want it would cost in the range of $3000+. On top of the engine build costs, I would also need about $3000+ of turbo parts. I would want it to start out around 300hp but eventually be able to reliably support 400hp+ and rev around 8000rpm. Of course you can't exclude tuning & miscellaneous costs...

But in comparison, a Rev Up VQ cost in the range of $3000-$3500 on average, right? Then I'd get 306hp (around 260whp, I guess...) at the crank, a nice 6spd transmission and variable timing on both intake and exhaust. Intall kit/costs are looking to be around $1500 when wiring and tuning are added. With bolt-ons and cams, 330hp at the crank doesn't seem out of the question. And it's be proven that the VQ's stock internals should be able to meet my 400 horsepower goals with current turbo technology. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if the boost tolerances increase in the future as support also increases.

The costs for the VQ route decrease if I forego the Rev Up route and opt instead for a FWD VQ. But my question is: Is it really worth it? It seems that for all the stuff you have to hunt down to convert a fwd VQ to operate in the rwd s13, you could spend a little more money on a 350z/G35 motor and save yourself a headache. I'd like to know the approximate cost of using a RWD VQ versus converting a FWD VQ based on this quote:

ok so what is required to do this swap you ask?

FWD VQ engineRWD intake manifoldRWD exhaustRWD upper and lower oil panEngine/dash wiring harness from the VQ car you got the ecu and bcm fromNVIS or NATS with key from the fermentationed car My mounts which use the 300zx motor mounts and trans bushinga drive shaftRWD vq35de transmission revup or non revup doesnt matter just needs to be the same generation of VQ since HR,DE,and VR trans are not interchangeable. RWD waterpipesGreffin RadiatorMy shift linkage kit or the guy from vq240z.com's kit he is selling on hybridz.org. A custom exhaustAn ABS source IE an ABS diff or abs spindle to get a Speed signalDakota Digital Converter to convert ABS pulse into speed pulse. To 'smog' the car or ref it and get it BAR approved you will need the catalytic converters from a RWD plat formSmog equipment from the car you took the ecu/bcm/nats/key fromyou may need an IPDM depending on the ecu you use. You will need to upgrade the fuel pump to a 300zx or Q45 or a walboro 255lhrYou will need an aftermarket FPR preferebly a nismo or aeromotiveyou can use a FPR off of a VQ30 but you will need to modify to fitYou need a DBW gas pedal obviously if you use a DBW VQ ECUthe one from the z33 and the 5.5 gen and 6th gen maxima work

Plus, any other comments/responses to my ramblings would be helpful as I weigh this decision out. I consider the VQ the future for 240 swaps and an excellent alternative to KA-T or SR, but I'm not interested in any RB/LSx/etc suggestions.
Modified by simmode1 at 11:42 AM 3/15/2009

[MoldyOldy240]

Irax,

If you can make this swap legal to Cali people; I would be in. From my limited understanding you would have to basically use the stock headers for it to work (along with all the factory smog and blah blah blah). BUT if you can, and give a true legal swap alternative, I believe a lot of people would be more inclined to do this swap.

Think about it; put in an SR and get popped by the police plus paying a guy off to pass you through smog

Or just do this swap and be happy being legal with a rocket under your hood.

Thats just my .02

**EDIT** That smog problem is the ONLY reason why I stay KA. For me, the swap would be my choice in a heart beat if it could be legal.

[irax]

But in comparison, a Rev Up VQ cost in the range of $3000-$3500 on average, right? Then I'd get 306hp (around 260whp, I guess...) at the crank, a nice 6spd transmission and variable timing on both intake and exhaust. Intall kit/costs are looking to be around $1500 when wiring and tuning are added. With bolt-ons and cams, 330hp at the crank doesn't seem out of the question. And it's be proven that the VQ's stock internals should be able to meet my 400 horsepower goals with current turbo technology. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if the boost tolerances increase in the future as support also increases.

The costs for the VQ route decrease if I forego the Rev Up route and opt instead for a FWD VQ. But my question is: Is it really worth it? It seems that for all the stuff you have to hunt down to convert a fwd VQ to operate in the rwd s13, you could spend a little more money on a 350z/G35 motor and save yourself a headache. I'd like to know the approximate cost of using a RWD VQ versus converting a FWD VQ based on this quote:Modified by simmode1 at 11:42 AM 3/15/2009

you bring up a good point... is it really worth it to forgo the REV UP RWD block for a FWD VQ? it all really depends... a lot of the parts interchange and swap on the DE (rev up and non rev up blocks) even between the 3.0 and 3.5 as well there is just limited interchangeability between the DE <-> HR (3.5/3.7/4.0) blocks. It all really depends on your power goals and budget. Sure you can save time by getting a RWD block and a RWD kit but you will be spending more money. If it is for a race car and you can forgoe emissions AND you are on a budget, well then you can get a FWD block and put the RWD REV UP heads, timing equipment on it but you would need to get all the REV UP electronics which can be more expensive. Prices on FWD engines on eBay run anywhere between $250-$999 for complete engines + wiring. You can get it cheaper at the pick a part since you will probably taking off all the stuff you wont be using anyways such as the intake, the headers, the transmission, and the oil pans. For a FWD converted to RWD expect to pay about $1300-$1500 on average. And then my swap kit which is going to be around $700-900 depending on some final stuff. I am still shooting to get it down to $500 though. so IN YOUR CAR it would be about 1800-2000 which is better than $2.5k+ for a rwd setup + $900~$1200 for a swap kit. then you still have to make the drive shaft and wire it up...so really.. 2k mounted into your car or 3500 mounted in your car... these are just rough estimates based on ebaymotors, and car-parts.com searches i do every so often.

[hungryjoseph]

did you ever say when you were going to start on this?

[irax]

I have a basic kit ready right now, just not a shifter bracket yet.. and I did not want to start the group buy with out it. The basic kit consists of the engine brackets, and the transmission cross member. My kit uses 300zx style engine mounts and your factory transmission mount. So unlike other kits where you have to buy expensive motor mounts just to use their expensive kits, everything is al-a-cart.

[simmode1]

you bring up a good point... is it really worth it to forgo the REV UP RWD block for a FWD VQ? it all really depends... a lot of the parts interchange and swap on the DE (rev up and non rev up blocks) even between the 3.0 and 3.5 as well there is just limited interchangeability between the DE <-> HR (3.5/3.7/4.0) blocks. It all really depends on your power goals and budget. Sure you can save time by getting a RWD block and a RWD kit but you will be spending more money. If it is for a race car and you can forgoe emissions AND you are on a budget, well then you can get a FWD block and put the RWD REV UP heads, timing equipment on it but you would need to get all the REV UP electronics which can be more expensive. Prices on FWD engines on eBay run anywhere between $250-$999 for complete engines + wiring. You can get it cheaper at the pick a part since you will probably taking off all the stuff you wont be using anyways such as the intake, the headers, the transmission, and the oil pans. For a FWD converted to RWD expect to pay about $1300-$1500 on average. And then my swap kit which is going to be around $700-900 depending on some final stuff. I am still shooting to get it down to $500 though. so IN YOUR CAR it would be about 1800-2000 which is better than $2.5k+ for a rwd setup + $900~$1200 for a swap kit. then you still have to make the drive shaft and wire it up...so really.. 2k mounted into your car or 3500 mounted in your car... these are just rough estimates based on ebaymotors, and car-parts.com searches i do every so often.

Dude, this is precisely what I wanted to know!

[breadbox]

Sweet. Keep up the good work. Are you forming a write up to be released with the kit?

[dan14sweeney]

if irax doesnt do a right up i have spoke with him before i am willing to do the write up on the kit i already have my 05 vq rwd engine set and all i need is the kit from irax and a wiring mastermind ( any takers?)

[simmode1]

^^^ Someone somewhat local testing this out would be awesome!

[dan14sweeney]

yea I am only like 45 minutes from you depending on traffic...but im excited to see someone near by thinking of doing the swap aswell...im all for helping another nico member with stuff...any good with wiring cuz im not

[simmode1]

yea I am only like 45 minutes from you depending on traffic...but im excited to see someone near by thinking of doing the swap aswell...im all for helping another nico member with stuff...any good with wiring cuz im not

I have completely abandoned my KA-T plans in lieu of a nice VQ swap. Since you already went with the RWD VQ, I'll be needing plenty of info from ya... For example: If you had it to do over, would you still use the RWD VQ or piece together the FWD VQ converson? And why?

And no... I am not good at wiring...

[dan14sweeney]

no problem i went with the rwd vq only because i bought it from a guy local who got rear ended...i bought the entire drivetrain from the engine to the differential for $2000...but i will let you know which way will be easier i just want to get it in