How hard is it to make 200hp?
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Tulsa_S-13
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Re: (S13 240SX)
Merry Christmas....... I think this thread wins the award for being jacked the most. So here's my contribution:
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InsanityInc
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Re: (A34D4ME)
Like I said, it's a layman's term. The high energy collisions of the gas molecules are what cause pressure, not "expanding". Considering the force is an aggregation of collisions for a period of time and a collection of gas molecules, saying the force is caused by expansion is a horrible misnomer. The force is still caused by our good friend F=ma when the molecules collide with something.A34D4ME wrote:
When the chemical reaction begins, the C-4 decomposes to release a variety of gases (notably, nitrogen and carbon oxides). The gases initially expand at about 26,400 feet per second (8,050 meters per second), applying a huge amount of force to everything in the surrounding area.
Re: (InsanityInc)
It's not laymans terms, it involves principles from organic chemistry that deal with molecular structure and space. These reactions are very different from the general chem concepts you are mentioning.
This is caused by the molecule re-arranging itself to achieve a state of lower energy. And when super high energy molecules do this, they sometimes do it with enough force to blow apart buildings. The heat that is liberated adds to this effect in the manner in which you've described. But it is in fact a change in the shape of the molecules involved and in their repulsive forces that cause expansion. Once again, these are principles of organic chemistry, not general chemistry.
An easy way to look at it is to think of a fuel molecule like a tightly wound spring. When the reaction proceeds, the spring snaps open into a shape that inhearently takes up more space, and stores less energy. It has nothing to do with increasing collisions.
Of course if you confine these gaseous products you get an increase in pressure instead of an increase in volume. That goes without saying.
We are discussing how things will proceed under similar pressure, which will be more or less 1 atm when looking at car intakes and exhausts.
If you examine the reactants O2 + C8H18 and the product CO2, under the same pressure and in balloon to prevent diffussion, the CO2 is going to have a greater volume at a given pressure. And even greater volume when heated under given pressure.
So, you see, the air going into your intake at 1atm, reacts with the fuel to make millions of little spings pop open. When this occurs there is a rise in pressure that is beyone the opposing pressure of the piston. When this pressure is vented through the exhaust valve, it returns, hopefully, to a pressure of 1 atm - assuming no back pressure(opposing work).
Once back to 1 atm, these exhaust products occupy far more space than the reactants did at the same pressure due to a change in their molecular shape and other repulsive forces.
To be honest, I'm growing quite weary of this argument and I'm afraid that you are more interested in winning than in learning the truth. Perhaps if you take a less offensive tone with people you won't find it so difficult to admit when you're wrong. You just might pick up some valuable info too.
Now go get your self an O chem book and remember to use softer words in case you wind up eating them again.
This is caused by the molecule re-arranging itself to achieve a state of lower energy. And when super high energy molecules do this, they sometimes do it with enough force to blow apart buildings. The heat that is liberated adds to this effect in the manner in which you've described. But it is in fact a change in the shape of the molecules involved and in their repulsive forces that cause expansion. Once again, these are principles of organic chemistry, not general chemistry.
An easy way to look at it is to think of a fuel molecule like a tightly wound spring. When the reaction proceeds, the spring snaps open into a shape that inhearently takes up more space, and stores less energy. It has nothing to do with increasing collisions.
Of course if you confine these gaseous products you get an increase in pressure instead of an increase in volume. That goes without saying.
We are discussing how things will proceed under similar pressure, which will be more or less 1 atm when looking at car intakes and exhausts.
If you examine the reactants O2 + C8H18 and the product CO2, under the same pressure and in balloon to prevent diffussion, the CO2 is going to have a greater volume at a given pressure. And even greater volume when heated under given pressure.
So, you see, the air going into your intake at 1atm, reacts with the fuel to make millions of little spings pop open. When this occurs there is a rise in pressure that is beyone the opposing pressure of the piston. When this pressure is vented through the exhaust valve, it returns, hopefully, to a pressure of 1 atm - assuming no back pressure(opposing work).
Once back to 1 atm, these exhaust products occupy far more space than the reactants did at the same pressure due to a change in their molecular shape and other repulsive forces.
To be honest, I'm growing quite weary of this argument and I'm afraid that you are more interested in winning than in learning the truth. Perhaps if you take a less offensive tone with people you won't find it so difficult to admit when you're wrong. You just might pick up some valuable info too.
Now go get your self an O chem book and remember to use softer words in case you wind up eating them again.
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Chaotic_Warlord
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Re: (A34D4ME)
Hey you 3, how about you guys take this argument to a more approved spot, if you don't know where to go here's the link...
zeroforum?id=88
It's called the technical and engineering forum for a reason. SO get off you high horses and move to a new location. All the guy wanted to know was if those mods that he listed would be able to net him 200HP that's all, a simple yes or no with a nudge in the right direction would have been sufficient. He's obviously a noob, so steer him in the right direction. As far as you're question goes, you'll have to do serious internal work to reach your goal seeing as a new KA from the factory only makes like 129WHP and as the engine ages and gets more and more miles on it that number will slowly decrease. Depneding on how much mileage, age and abuse your block has taken I wouldn't suggest going the N2o route as that's more of a gamble than forced induction. not to mention using juice from a bottle just seems like the cheap way to get a victory. You need to prioritize your goals and build from there. If you are looking to beat say sentra's, miata's and integra's in circuit or auto x then yeah NA is the way to go and those mods plus a decent coil over with bars and rods will get you where you want to be. If however you are looking to drag race then honestly FI is the route to go as the KA is more a mid to high range motor, great for Wangan bad for the drag strip. The torque is there but the HP doesn't actually kick in until your in 3 rd gear, ie 0-60 sucks *** but 60-100 is great. There aren't very many 240's on the drag circuit for this reason and the ones that are have either been engine swapped or are running FI. Invest the needed time and money to get a full build and you'll see it'll be worth it in the long run. The internals are for the most part incredibly strong, since the block and rods are iron. Sorry you had to be a victim of a brutal and IMO boring threadjack, but hey that's how it goes here some times.
zeroforum?id=88
It's called the technical and engineering forum for a reason. SO get off you high horses and move to a new location. All the guy wanted to know was if those mods that he listed would be able to net him 200HP that's all, a simple yes or no with a nudge in the right direction would have been sufficient. He's obviously a noob, so steer him in the right direction. As far as you're question goes, you'll have to do serious internal work to reach your goal seeing as a new KA from the factory only makes like 129WHP and as the engine ages and gets more and more miles on it that number will slowly decrease. Depneding on how much mileage, age and abuse your block has taken I wouldn't suggest going the N2o route as that's more of a gamble than forced induction. not to mention using juice from a bottle just seems like the cheap way to get a victory. You need to prioritize your goals and build from there. If you are looking to beat say sentra's, miata's and integra's in circuit or auto x then yeah NA is the way to go and those mods plus a decent coil over with bars and rods will get you where you want to be. If however you are looking to drag race then honestly FI is the route to go as the KA is more a mid to high range motor, great for Wangan bad for the drag strip. The torque is there but the HP doesn't actually kick in until your in 3 rd gear, ie 0-60 sucks *** but 60-100 is great. There aren't very many 240's on the drag circuit for this reason and the ones that are have either been engine swapped or are running FI. Invest the needed time and money to get a full build and you'll see it'll be worth it in the long run. The internals are for the most part incredibly strong, since the block and rods are iron. Sorry you had to be a victim of a brutal and IMO boring threadjack, but hey that's how it goes here some times.
Re: (Chaotic_Warlord)
Hay Chaotic, people get into arguments sometimes - what can you do.
But a little FYI - these boards have moderators who's job it is to keep things in line. Unless you are one, you have no business telling people what they should or should not be discussing or where they should be discussing it. If you have a problem with what myself, or anybody else is posting, you have every right to inform a moderator, change the subject or politely ask for a return to the topic. However, if you think I will be dictated to by you, you are sadly mistaken and cordially invited to go f@#k your self.
Get it?
But a little FYI - these boards have moderators who's job it is to keep things in line. Unless you are one, you have no business telling people what they should or should not be discussing or where they should be discussing it. If you have a problem with what myself, or anybody else is posting, you have every right to inform a moderator, change the subject or politely ask for a return to the topic. However, if you think I will be dictated to by you, you are sadly mistaken and cordially invited to go f@#k your self.
Get it?
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skydragoness
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92' 240sx 60k survivor :) - Location: North DFW, TEJAS
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Re: (S13 240SX)
As to quote the late Paul Souder: "Bottles are for babies"S13 240SX wrote:NOS NOS and NOS!!! only way ur gonna see 200 without doing internal work or a high price in turbo setup.
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Chaotic_Warlord
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Re: (A34D4ME)
This coming from a noob himself, hell you haven't even been on these boards for 3 weeks yet. How's about you take note of this, no I am not a mod and yes it is their job to keep threads straight, but that gives you no right to tell me to go **** myself simply for doing what any other decent nico person would do. You want to act like that you can go back to FreshAlloy or whereever the **** you came from. I do not take kindly to be told to go **** myself by anyone. Yes arguments happen sometimes, but what you have proceed to do is called a threadjack, while it's ok when it has something to do with the relatavince of the thread itself what you guys have proceeded to do is take a simple question and twisted into some debate about the chemistry and physics of the gasoline engine. Which normally I wouldn't care, but the guy had a reasonable question that while yes had he actually used the search button he would have been able to answer himself. Don't be a douche like your little debating partner there (who if you read up on some of his other posts in other threads likes to drag unsuspecting noobs like yourself, who think they are the god's of what ever the hell they seem to know a little something about, into debates such as this) I wouldn't have said anythign except the debate took up a whole page of absolute crap and boring bs that proceeded to pretty much waste bandwidth, which again isn't worth stepping in about but you guys proceeded to act like little 5 year olds who threw slander and personal attack at each other due to some sort of pen15 envy you two seem to have about the other. Grow up and let the whole thing go or take it elsewhere before a mod does come in and ***** slap the both of you and lock this thread. GOd I hate know it all's who think they can just say what the hell they want where and when the hell to whoever they want to. Get some numbers and time under that fat mouth of yours or you're looking to be typecasted as yet another one of NICO's few know it alls who gets made fun of or told to go away. :End RantA34D4ME wrote:Hay Chaotic, people get into arguments sometimes - what can you do.
But a little FYI - these boards have moderators who's job it is to keep things in line. Unless you are one, you have no business telling people what they should or should not be discussing or where they should be discussing it. If you have a problem with what myself, or anybody else is posting, you have every right to inform a moderator, change the subject or politely ask for a return to the topic. However, if you think I will be dictated to by you, you are sadly mistaken and cordially invited to go f@#k your self.
Get it?
Re: (Chaotic_Warlord)
Much of what you said about thread jacking is true and it was foolish of me to allow myself to be goaded into that argument and you have every right to point it out.Chaotic_Warlord wrote:
GOd I hate know it all's who think they can just say what the hell they want where and when the hell to whoever they want to. Get some numbers and time under that fat mouth of yours or you're looking to be typecasted as yet another one of NICO's few know it alls who gets made fun of or told to go away. :End Rant
You do not however, have the right to decide what other people should or shouldn't say or where they should or shouldn't say it. And to suggest that you do because you have been here longer is childish. Like I give a rat's @$$ how long you've been here.
I don't know who you think you are but I'm quite certain your nobody that anybody needs to listen too. If you think otherwise, you can go re-read my former post. Just let me know how many lanuages you need me to say it in.
And unless you would have the brass to say it to someones face, don't be bossing people around on line like some little punk b@#ch.
Now go count your posts.
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Chaotic_Warlord
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Re: (A34D4ME)
I by no means am anywhere close to being a punk *****, and yes I would have the balls to say what I have said among a few other things to your face (or anyone else's for that matter). My momma didn't raise no *****, and I have no qualms of walking up to someone and telling them exactly what I think, and do it in a polite and fairly civilized manner. I was attempting to do that in my previous posts. Now if you want to be a d!ck then hey it's a free country and you're more than able to do that. But don't step up to the plate unless you know what it is you're stepping up to. I'm not some punk kid who thinks he can just mouth off to anyone he wants, I have a wee bit of age and experience under my belt. Notice that I have not once ever assumed to know who you are or what you do, or even how old you are. I've also not said anything that could even be construed as being the least bit directed at you. Unlike you who have not only told me to go to hell, to go **** myself, and have proceeded to call me a punk *****. And yet aside from my comment in this post about you having the tendency towards being a d!ck, not once have I resorted to name calling, slander, or verbal attack. What does this say, it says that I have the maturity and age to be more of a man than one who would resort to those means. No I am not anyone to fear on these boards, but don't think for one seconds that you could or would be able to walk up to me face to face and say anything that you have said to me, because I assure you, you would go away more than a wee bit wiser for the experience. Not a threat, not even in a threatening tone, simply an observation and fact. You want to act this way go to another forum, because honestly we have enough ***holes here at NICO, but I hear Freshalloy is always looking for a new ***. Nico is a friendly brotherhood, and if you actually spent any time here before you decided to mouth of to someone you would know that, as a brotherhood this means we take care of our own, not slander or verbally attack them. But hey, you are who you are, if you want to keep acting that way, one of these days you're going to "cordially invite " the wrong person on here "to go **** themselves" and you will get taught a valuable forum lesson with the BAN stick, and you know what, I'm sure I won't be the only one laughing there *** off when it happens. :End Rant.A34D4ME wrote:And unless you would have the brass to say it to someones face, don't be bossing people around on line like some little punk b@#ch.
Now go count your posts.
Re: (A34D4ME)
First off Mr. Chaotic, you have a short memory if you think you haven't used offensive language in your previous posts.
The thing that is most offensive is the thing you seem to be oblivious to regardless of how many times I've spelled it out for you.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BARK ORDERS AT MYSELF OR ANYBODY ELSE ON THIS BOARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ATTEMP TO CENSOR MYSELF OR ANYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DECIDE WHO SHOULD BE HERE AND WHO SHOULD NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT I AM DISCUSSING, REPORT IT TO A MODERATOR OR YOULEAVE AND GO TO ANOTHER FORUM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU ARE NOT THE BOSS OF THIS FORUM OR ANYONE IN IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you get it, it is you who is the **** head here. If you continue to arrogantly harrass other members with your self proclaimed right to censor people, I will contact the moderators and suggest that you be banned for harrassment. And on a more childish note, my original log on got jacked up- this is a second name.
Now get a life and stop being a chat room tuff guy before you mouth off to the wrong guy. By the way I'm a 38 year old life long body builder and ex bouncer with martial arts experience, so it's probably safe to say that I am the wrong guy.
The thing that is most offensive is the thing you seem to be oblivious to regardless of how many times I've spelled it out for you.
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO BARK ORDERS AT MYSELF OR ANYBODY ELSE ON THIS BOARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO ATTEMP TO CENSOR MYSELF OR ANYONE ELSE ON THIS BOARD !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU HAVE NO RIGHT TO DECIDE WHO SHOULD BE HERE AND WHO SHOULD NOT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
IF YOU HAVE A PROBLEM WITH WHAT I AM DISCUSSING, REPORT IT TO A MODERATOR OR YOULEAVE AND GO TO ANOTHER FORUM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU ARE NOT THE BOSS OF THIS FORUM OR ANYONE IN IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Do you get it, it is you who is the **** head here. If you continue to arrogantly harrass other members with your self proclaimed right to censor people, I will contact the moderators and suggest that you be banned for harrassment. And on a more childish note, my original log on got jacked up- this is a second name.
Now get a life and stop being a chat room tuff guy before you mouth off to the wrong guy. By the way I'm a 38 year old life long body builder and ex bouncer with martial arts experience, so it's probably safe to say that I am the wrong guy.
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InsanityInc
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Re: (A34D4ME)
Heh heh. Claiming you'll beat someone up over the internet. Man, that's so out of style.A34D4ME wrote:Now get a life and stop being a chat room tuff guy before you mouth off to the wrong guy. By the way I'm a 38 year old life long body builder and ex bouncer with martial arts experience, so it's probably safe to say that I am the wrong guy.
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Chaotic_Warlord
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Re: (A34D4ME)
OK I don't think that that was what I said... I believe what I said wasA34D4ME wrote:First off Mr. Chaotic, you have a short memory if you think you haven't used offensive language in your previous posts.
Go ahead and report me, aside from this argument with you I haven't gotten into it with anyone else on these boards, and besides it's just an internet forum, it's not like this is a life or death situation.Chaotic_Warlord wrote: Notice that I have not once ever assumed to know who you are or what you do, or even how old you are. I've also not said anything that could even be construed as being the least bit directed at you. Unlike you who have not only told me to go to hell, to go **** myself, and have proceeded to call me a punk *****. And yet aside from my comment in this post about you having the tendency towards being a d!ck, not once have I resorted to name calling, slander, or verbal attack. What does this say, it says that I have the maturity and age to be more of a man than one who would resort to those means.
If your previous log on got jacked then what was it and how many posts do you really have? Oh and while we're at it let me just say that I'm an Combat Engineer with previous bouncing experience myself. Let me also say that you having martial arts experience doesn't phase me in the least bit considering I've had live rounds fired at me on more than a few occassions and I'm used to having my face 6" from live anti-tank mines for the sole purpose of defusing them. So you can be Mr. Badass all you want, you don't scare me. I would also like to mention to aside from my first post that simply requested for you and Insanity Inc to take your argument to another part of the boards because while the intial post could have been answered with a simple use of the search button a threadjack like what you guys did is just rude and uncalled for. So yeah you can report me, it's not like my being banned will hurt my feelings, though reporting me over something as trivial as requesting you to move your debate to a more approriate thread is absurd and immature. Had I used slander or verbal abuse or threats (like you have) for no apparent reason then yes I could see reporting me as being a feasible reson to report me. Will I report you, no, why not, because you're not worth the time and effort it would take to report and ban you.A34D4ME wrote:Now get a life and stop being a chat room tuff guy before you mouth off to the wrong guy. By the way I'm a 38 year old life long body builder and ex bouncer with martial arts experience, so it's probably safe to say that I am the wrong guy.
I don't believe I was the one being the e-tough guy because I only asked them to move to another thread, he was the one who started off by telling me to go **** myself among other things, I simply was posting in defense because after all, I take serious offense to not only being told to go **** myself but also to being called a punk ***** especially by someone who doesn't know me from a hole in the ground. As far as this thread being locked, I whole heartedly agreeTrueSlide wrote:I see chaotic as starting that one, playing the e-tuff guy. I think this thread should of been locked awhile back.
Re: (TrueSlide)
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1
does this have everything needed to bolt it right up?
and do u think its worth it just as a daily driver
does this have everything needed to bolt it right up?
and do u think its worth it just as a daily driver
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InsanityInc
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Re: (ken81590)
Well. It looks like it has all of the necessary parts... sort of.ken81590 wrote:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...QrdZ1
does this have everything needed to bolt it right up?
and do u think its worth it just as a daily driver
I may just be missing it, but it doesn't look like there's anything for the oil line to go to the turbo. Also seems like it doesn't have a downpipe.
Also, that intercooler piping doesn't seem like it would fit on a KA, and the piping looks to be horribly mis-sized compared to the turbo they have pictured.
I'd ask them if the picture represents what you'll be getting. It seems rather spurious at first glance.
Re: (Chaotic_Warlord)
All BS aside and it's getting deep, has it occured to you yet that you are doing the exact same thing that you critisized us for doing.
You are also flat out lying about "requesting" or "asking" us to do anything.
You demanded, that we go elsewhere as part of some little arrogant, self aggrandizing reprimand.
Had you simply asked, I would have agreed with you and appologised.
You quite clearly were barking orders and you did it in a highly offensive manner. You claim to be a soldier but yet you come into a public place attempting to censor people like a tyrant.
Don't ever lecture me, don't ever think you can reprimand me and don't ever try to tell me what I can and can't say.
Especially when you are guilty of the exact same thing.
Now drop it!
You are also flat out lying about "requesting" or "asking" us to do anything.
You demanded, that we go elsewhere as part of some little arrogant, self aggrandizing reprimand.
Had you simply asked, I would have agreed with you and appologised.
You quite clearly were barking orders and you did it in a highly offensive manner. You claim to be a soldier but yet you come into a public place attempting to censor people like a tyrant.
Don't ever lecture me, don't ever think you can reprimand me and don't ever try to tell me what I can and can't say.
Especially when you are guilty of the exact same thing.
Now drop it!