How does Obama get away with using tax cheats in his Administration?

[DroptopDrifting]

ok, i only read posts goin as far as ...

Dude, he's been in office 3 seconds. Failure? No...

Can you solve the economy crisis? No?

How has he made things worse...exactly. How exactly did Obama himself break the law? How did HE make our country worse?

His admin is no worse then any before his, give the man more then 3 seconds to make some difference for f#$%s sake. Save the judgement for the hate mongering right wing meetings.

There isn't going to be any admin that will make everyone happy. It's impossible...Nor will there be one that does everything to the letter of the law...won't happen...ever.

the way i see it, he already greatly undermined our nation. the first thing he did was close down gitmo, setting most of the terrorists free. every week i see an article in the WSJ talking about how durin their new "fair trial" there was not enough evidence so some more were let go. last week france just had to release 4. the whole point of holdin these terrorists under the patriot act, the reason for the patriot act, is to grab these terrorists based on CIA intel, not based on a more localized system of law. in a court of law here, something like intel even if from an organization like the CIA, is all hearsay and circumstantial evidence. by giving these known terrorists fair trials with solely circumstantial evidence, they'll all be set free. we've already set plenty free here in the good ol' u.s.

so yeah, in my opinion he's been set on the path to disaster and failure since those first 3 seconds...

[480sx]

Innocent until proven guilty does not apply to the IRS.

Have you ever delt with them?

They show up at your door and say "prove that you paid all your income taxes in the last 7 years" and if you cant. . . well. . . you go to Jail. End of story.

Theres this thing in the country.. Called a trial. You dont go to jail without a trial. Unless your an enemy combatant...

DropTop - Do you really think any POTUS or person in their right mind would let someone who is a true threat to our country go? The real threats were moved, while johnny jihad was set free to go spread his story. About how.. We jailed him, fed him, clothed him, and then, SET HIM FREE. After doing something to get him locked up there in the first place. Ohh hes gona cause us some problems in the future alright! In addition, each and every one of those people are marked for the rest of their lives. Every airport they go to, every time their visas or passports are scanned world wide, any time they hit US soil, facial recognition, i mean i could go on and on about how useless those people are as terrorists at this point but ffs.. Its self evident.

[OriginalWheelman]

Can you link me to where you assaulted the Republican party with as much zeal as you do the Democrats? No...hater. I call it like I see it dude.

I don't like the social policies of the Republicans. I hardly ever bash them for this because I hardly ever have to. There is plenty of that already. That's why I'm not a republican. I'm most aligned with the Libertarians, but I question the economic feasibility of their ultimate goals, so I do not belong to that party either.

I have supported the 1 (count them, 1) policy I've seen from the Obama administration I liked.

zer...the-6

My case is, and has been, that BOTH parties are equally corrupt.

[DroptopDrifting]

are you serious!?!?!? we already set free the mastermind behind the hostage situation where they took over one of our ships and killed soldiers in cold blood. the families of these soldiers felt betrayed by their own country, and president. last week in france 4 terrorists from gitmo who were caught setting explosives were set free due to misconduct in their arrest. it's been happening every week. open your eyes. read a real newspaper. the WSJ reports on this daily. no one was "moved" without the intentions of getting a "fair trial". trials take time to commence, but slowly they're all getting set free. so far only 2 were found guilty, out of the 47 tried so far. those were the total numbers as of last thursday in the international courts. there's forums out there for conspiracy theorists, this isn't one of em. the current administration didn't just hide away the "true threats" every single one of their identities are public information and can be followed and checked up on if you'd like. when you're in our corrections system, you are officially public property, supported by tax dollars. go look this up

[DroptopDrifting]

I don't like the social policies of the Republicans. I hardly ever bash them for this because I hardly ever have to. There is plenty of that already. That's why I'm not a republican. I'm most aligned with the Libertarians, but I question the economic feasibility of their ultimate goals, so I do not belong to that party either.

I have supported the 1 (count them, 1) policy I've seen from the Obama administration I liked.

zer...the-6

My case is, and has been, that BOTH parties are equally corrupt.

aside from the libertarian thing, i agree with you 100%.

[WDRacing]

Under the Patriot Act speaking out against the POTUS can be considered grounds enough to warrant your phone/pc/records be monitored. If they decide that you're a threat you can be locked up and held indefinitely without trial.

Great stance to pick and defend dude.

I've been overseas and rescued hostages. I know ALL about terrorists. But that doesn't give ANY friggin nation the right to seize and hold people against their will...PERIOD. They are being released because we lack evidence. Don't believe everything the press or others feed you dude. We're not just letting them go for the sake of being nice. Jesus...it's called the legal system. We do it every single day right here in the US with people. If you don't have evidence you can't arrest people.

You're free to have your opinion of course...but in this case you're extremely naive on the actual facts behind your argument.

WD

[DroptopDrifting]

we've already let known murderers go the same way oj simpson was set free the first time around. i'm not naive or wrong on these facts. it's even been on local liberal news channels. this is public information. i understand there might be a few people wrongly accused, but for the most part they aren't. the few trials that might save a few innocent civilians do not compare to the many that set free terrorists due to stupid loop holes. not one of them was read their rights, that right there could set each one of em free.

[WDRacing]

I'm not defending the Justice System man...not even close. But it's the system we have in place. I know whats public record and what isn't. War crimes and the people that the Military and CIA take hostage are not.

I have lost friends and family to terroism man. You're preaching to the choir there. But there is a right and wrong way to go about doing things. If they are guilty, get the intel you can and put them to death. Thats it...

But keeping people locked up forever without due course is NOT what America is all about man. We know where the 99.9% of the terrorists are, should we just make a smoking hole out of the place? Of course not.

This is going WAY off topic. No more Gitmo talk and general charecter assination just for the sake of typing.

WD

[telcoman]

Why didn't you answer my post, Telco?

What good would it do?

[Jesda]

What good would it do?

I'm inclined to agree.

[dusred]

What good would it do?

You coward.

[telcoman]

You coward.

Ok Bradley,

I'll try!

I'm sure you are a fine young man but naive and inexperienced.

Seriously,

How does he get away with it? Are people just blind?

This is the list so far:

Ron Kirk - $10,000Timothy Geithner - $34,000Tom Daschle - $128,000Nancy Killefer - 34,000 (she actually withdrew after this was discovered)

These are just the ones that come to mind, there may be more.

How many of these people are in jail for tax evasion?

None!

These are not huge amounts of money and probably just errors on complicated tax returns.

If I failed to pay $128,000 in back taxes I'll bet I'd be behind bars for several years. One of my uncles had to serve hard time in prison for failing to pay some of his income taxes (around $10,000 I think).

What is the deal? I thought Obama said he would run the most ethical administration?

Obama really does lie, as Matt once said.

Did your uncle have a lawyer?

Probably not any good ones in Utah?

Obama has surrounded himself with the best people he could find on both sides. He won the election and is doing the best that he can in attempting to straighten out a huge financial mess that could possibly threaten the peace and stability of the entire world.

I wonder why Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Libby, and Gonzalez are not in jail?

Telcoman

[dusred]

Thanks Telco for responding. . . but your response doesn't make any sense to me (please bare with me here).

I'm sure you are a fine young man but naive and inexperienced.

Thats great. I'm just like our President arent I?

Seriously,

How does he get away with it? Are people just blind?

This is the list so far:

Ron Kirk - $10,000Timothy Geithner - $34,000Tom Daschle - $128,000Nancy Killefer - 34,000 (she actually withdrew after this was discovered)

These are just the ones that come to mind, there may be more.

How many of these people are in jail for tax evasion?

Seriously,

None!

These are not huge amounts of money and probably just errors on complicated tax returns.

The people who helped write the tax code (if I understand correctly) don't understand it?

You missed the point. Of course the tax code is complicated but if you screw up you'll still go to Jail. End of story. That's why we have Professionals do it.

If I failed to pay $128,000 in back taxes I'll bet I'd be behind bars for several years. One of my uncles had to serve hard time in prison for failing to pay some of his income taxes (around $10,000 I think).

What is the deal? I thought Obama said he would run the most ethical administration?

Obama really does lie, as Matt once said.

Did your uncle have a lawyer?

Probably not any good ones in Utah?

There is a very good University (BYU) that is a Law School. Lawyers are thicker then flies around here.

Of course he had a good lawyer, that's why he got off so easy.

Obama has surrounded himself with the best people he could find on both sides. He won the election and is doing the best that he can in attempting to straighten out a huge financial mess that could possibly threaten the peace and stability of the entire world.

If the best people he can find are tax cheats, (ex)terrorists, and radical pastors he must not be looking too hard.

I wonder why Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Libby, and Gonzalez are not in jail?

Telcoman

I wonder the same thing sometimes. . . especially when I think about the "Patriot" act.

[heliochrome85]

There is a very good University (BYU) that is a Law School. Lawyers are thicker then flies around here.

So Jews are welcome in UTAH now are they? i must have missed the memo.

another day, another dusred thread. Naladude from the J30 forum makes more sense than you. congrats.

[WDRacing]

So Jews are welcome in UTAH now are they? i must have missed the memo.

another day, another dusred thread. Naladude from the J30 forum makes more sense than you. congrats.

Everything about this post is awful and contributes nothing. Your one post in a 2 page thread is to insult the OP and make racial slurs? Dude...you're better then this. We've banned people for less. Pull your head out...

WD

[Cold_Zero]

Howie,I cleaned up your post for you. If it was anyone else I would tell them to secure their s*** and fix it. But since you are old and we need to treat our elders with respect.. I fixed it for you.

bud

[heliochrome85]

Here is my problem with this 2 page thread, and the OP.

If the best people he can find are tax cheats, (ex)terrorists, and radical pastors he must not be looking too hard.

first and foremost, unless everyone criticizing the nominees and their tax histories, is willing to show their own tax records and have them scrutinized, they should all keep their mouths shut. That means all the republicans why cry foul play, and the democrats (DODD) who sit and whistle as everyone is looking the other way. I have no doubt that they earnestly attempted to file their taxes in the same manner each and every one of us does. You really think someone knowingly sitting on 138k in outstanding taxes wouldnt have had that taken care of before say the nomination? The reality is that the tax code is so incomprehensable that when we sit and do it, for the most part, we try to faithfully abide by the law. That isnt to say people dont evade taxes. Im just saying the people involved so far knew this was coming, if they knew they had something to hide, dont you think they would have exited stage left, to say, salvage any political career they might have?

Point number two: Today is march 8th. President Obama has been in office 47 days. In that time, he has had to deal with the largest economic meltdown our country has seen in any appreciable measure of time, a global crisis stemming from our own financial problems, plane crash, Israel-Palestine, not to mention, his nominees. CUT. HIM. SOME. SLACK. He didnt inherit a basket of roses and puppies from bush. He got a sack of...

Third: Why does giving everyone healthcare stimulate the economy? Because you dont have to sit and pay 500 a month to Cobra to get basic healthcare. Thats why. Oh wait, that doesnt make sense now does it. What would someone possibly do with 500 extra dollars a month for not having to pay for healthcare when they cant afford it? WHAT WOULD ONE DO?!!?!

Fourth: Its funny how Reverend Wright, Acorn, etc are all still being talked about, but say Valarie Plame, Alberto Gonzales, Halliburton, Blackwater, FEMA and Katrina, Torture, and the entire Justice Department hiring scandals arent being talked about. funny that? I guess in light of those seemingly less serious crimes, we should go ahead and impeach a sitting president.

If i seem annoyed, it is because I am. How does Obama get away with using tax cheats in his cabinet? because they arent Tax cheats. You dont call it cheating if you do it by accident, you call it a mistake. Cheating is something the right is specialized in, otherwise we wouldnt be called defeat-o-crats.

[480sx]

Fourth: Its funny how Reverend Wright, Acorn, etc are all still being talked about, but say Valarie Plame, Alberto Gonzales, Halliburton, Blackwater, FEMA and Katrina, Torture, and the entire Justice Department hiring scandals arent being talked about. funny that? I guess in light of those seemingly less serious crimes, we should go ahead and impeach a sitting president.

f***ing thanks for that.

If i seem annoyed, it is because I am. How does Obama get away with using tax cheats in his cabinet? because they arent Tax cheats. You dont call it cheating if you do it by accident, you call it a mistake.

While it may not be a mistake, its probably not tax evasion which is illegally trying to dodge taxes. So FFS, this isnt some huge scandal worthy of ripping BO apart. If the right men for the job happen to owe some back taxes, WHO THE FVK CARES? Again, it doesnt mean a crime was committed, it doesnt mean they are horrible corrupt politicians, it doesnt mean they are even criminals.

[heliochrome85]

it just means that they just used turbotax or something. Just like millions of other Americans.

If you are going to start a witch hunt, why not go after witches.

[Cold_Zero]

Again, all the more reason why this country needs to pass the Fair Tax.

[Cold_Zero]

While it may not be a mistake, its probably not tax evasion which is illegally trying to dodge taxes. So FFS, this isnt some huge scandal worthy of ripping BO apart. If the right men for the job happen to owe some back taxes, WHO THE FVK CARES? Again, it doesnt mean a crime was committed, it doesnt mean they are horrible corrupt politicians, it doesnt mean they are even criminals.

Yes, heaven forbid we actually have high standards for the people that represent us in our government. Especially when they do things like, enforce taxes by heading up the IRS/Treasury or give advice on things like tax policy. I also find it disingenious when it was Biden campaigning for the Obama-Biden ticket that had the gaul to imply that paying taxes was patriotic. In the context of taxing the rich. Yet it turns out that a few of their nominees are apparently 'not so patriotic.'

And give me a break, guys like Geithner and Daschel use turbotax? You have to be kidding, guys like that have CPAs/accountants that do their taxes. That is like claiming that Hélio Castroneves does his own taxes.

[liquid_cool]

what convention was it..let me remeber..thats rite..the geneva convention..

Any non-uniform military combatant captured in a time of war may be shot as a spy,sabatour.

i think terrorlst fall under this catagory..dont you!...just shoot em..get it over with.

[Cold_Zero]

Fourth: Its funny how Reverend Wright, Acorn, etc are all still being talked about, but say Valarie Plame, Alberto Gonzales, Halliburton, Blackwater, FEMA and Katrina, Torture, and the entire Justice Department hiring scandals arent being talked about. funny that? I guess in light of those seemingly less serious crimes, we should go ahead and impeach a sitting president.

Funny isn't it? Its called ADD and this country has it. I blame cable news networks that the American public can't concentrate on any one topic for anything over 15 minutes of fame. And don't even ask for later follow-up.

[480sx]

Yes, heaven forbid we actually have high standards for the people that represent us in our government.

Reality check, 'WE the PEOPLE', dont.

Im by no means defending this crap, because its a joke that the new appointed head of the IRS owed a lot of back taxes. In addition to the rest of them. I made my point clear, i just dont feel that its a big enough issue to cause a ton of muck flinging about when compared to the real issues thats plaguing the US government. They will pay their taxes, and it will be done. While i wish they would be held accountable, we all know this isnt going to happen, so wtf ever, roll on with it. Let them make mistakes with their new positions of power, then let the muck flinging commence.

[audtatious]

People flung muck if Bush smiled weird in public. There is at least 6 years of muck flinging to catch up on from the Republican side of the house

[dusred]

So Jews are welcome in UTAH now are they? i must have missed the memo.

another day, another dusred thread. Naladude from the J30 forum makes more sense than you. congrats.

What?

What the heck does Jews have to do with anything?

I'll ignore the rest of your post

Here is my problem with this 2 page thread, and the OP.

first and foremost, unless everyone criticizing the nominees and their tax histories, is willing to show their own tax records and have them scrutinized, they should all keep their mouths shut. That means all the republicans why cry foul play, and the democrats (DODD) who sit and whistle as everyone is looking the other way. I have no doubt that they earnestly attempted to file their taxes in the same manner each and every one of us does. You really think someone knowingly sitting on 138k in outstanding taxes wouldnt have had that taken care of before say the nomination? The reality is that the tax code is so incomprehensable that when we sit and do it, for the most part, we try to faithfully abide by the law. That isnt to say people dont evade taxes. Im just saying the people involved so far knew this was coming, if they knew they had something to hide, dont you think they would have exited stage left, to say, salvage any political career they might have?

I agree 100% that anyone who is cutting these guys down for not paying their taxes aught to be looked at closely. I would be doing the same thing if this kind of bulls*** was going on in my party.

My Uncle didn't intentionally skip his taxes either. . . it was an honest mistake but he still went to Jail. The IRS doesn't care about "honest mistakes". Enough with that.

Point number two: Today is march 8th. President Obama has been in office 47 days. In that time, he has had to deal with the largest economic meltdown our country has seen in any appreciable measure of time, a global crisis stemming from our own financial problems, plane crash, Israel-Palestine, not to mention, his nominees. CUT. HIM. SOME. SLACK. He didnt inherit a basket of roses and puppies from bush. He got a sack of...

He's off on the wrong foot is what I'm saying. . . but he could set it strait. There are millions of people to choose from why the tax cheats?

Third: Why does giving everyone healthcare stimulate the economy? Because you dont have to sit and pay 500 a month to Cobra to get basic healthcare. Thats why. Oh wait, that doesnt make sense now does it. What would someone possibly do with 500 extra dollars a month for not having to pay for healthcare when they cant afford it? WHAT WOULD ONE DO?!!?!

If we had free Healthcare they would be paying the extra $500 a month in taxes (somebody has to pay for it right?). What does Healthcare have to do with this discussion anyway?

Fourth: Its funny how Reverend Wright, Acorn, etc are all still being talked about, but say Valarie Plame, Alberto Gonzales, Halliburton, Blackwater, FEMA and Katrina, Torture, and the entire Justice Department hiring scandals arent being talked about. funny that? I guess in light of those seemingly less serious crimes, we should go ahead and impeach a sitting president.

Go ahead and talk about them. I'll have a discussion with you about them if you wish. I'm not a blind follower of the RNC; if they do something stupid and hire tax cheats I'll call them out for it too. I'm focusing on the Democrats (socialists) right now because they are in power.

If i seem annoyed, it is because I am. How does Obama get away with using tax cheats in his cabinet? because they arent Tax cheats. You dont call it cheating if you do it by accident, you call it a mistake. Cheating is something the right is specialized in, otherwise we wouldnt be called defeat-o-crats.

I pay my taxes, Helio, and I know this much -- I would go to Jail if I didn't pay my taxes to that extent even if it was an accident. The IRS doesn't care.

I guess this whole thing is based around your point of view. I view it as "cheating" on taxes you view it as an "honest mistake".

[heliochrome85]

He's off on the wrong foot is what I'm saying. . . but he could set it strait. There are millions of people to choose from why the tax cheats?

i know its hard to believe, but sometimes presidents choose qualified people for important jobs. Those people aren't always perfect. Are you telling me you think there are millions of Americans out there you would trust to run the Treasury? I'd say a dozen at best, and of those dozen, maybe 2-3 that mesh with the President's vision for his agenda.

If we had free Healthcare they would be paying the extra $500 a month in taxes (somebody has to pay for it right?). What does Healthcare have to do with this discussion anyway?

First, it was asked in the thread.Second, your taxes are going up. But not by as much as people are saying. Most Americans won't be able to tell the difference.

Go ahead and talk about them. I'll have a discussion with you about them if you wish. I'm not a blind follower of the RNC; if they do something stupid and hire tax cheats I'll call them out for it too. I'm focusing on the Democrats (socialists) right now because they are in power.

Its funny that you call the Democrats, Socialists. Way to think on your own. Too bad you dont realize that the most socialist state in the country is Alaska. Oh and she was gonna be your VP.

I guess this whole thing is based around your point of view. I view it as "cheating" on taxes you view it as an "honest mistake".

Yeah, and I think that the President is personally responsible for the murder of thousands of innocent Iraqi's, but you guys call it part of the War on Terror. I guess its based on your point of view.

[Cold_Zero]

Reality check, 'WE the PEOPLE', dont.

The reality check is (unless you are being spoon fed the propaganda from the Mass Media Complex in this country) that We the People do keep accountability with our elected officials and even more so during the Senate Confirmation process of Nominees. Now I don't know, things might be different in NoVA than the rest of the United States, but I have a feeling they are not so different. Look, we give politicians and bureaucrats the leeway to take advantage of this stuff. And we have the ability to take it away. But it would mean people turning off the TV and actually doing something like voting people into/out of office.

And the defence that you two used of deflecting the attention back on the prior administration is tired. We can all site cases with the Clinton, Bush (41), Reagan and Carter Administrations that fit the same bill. Heck, I am always ready to re-hash the Gestapo style tactics of Attorney General Janet Reno/Justice Department, the illegal bombing of Belgrade and invasion of Kosovo that was left by the Clinton Administration.

I hope you all are not defending these nominees and the Administration because *gasp* just like the defenders of the prior administration it was more important for your guy in the White House to look good and your team to win. That isnt change.. its more of the same.

[480sx]

Whens the last time we have recalled a senator? House member? Hell ANY recall election is rare. Whens the last time someone organized a real march on a seriously important issue? We all have issues with the bailouts, so, wheres the counter activity for that?

But it would mean people turning off the TV and actually doing something like voting people into/out of office.

Yea, to bad that doesnt happen.

I hope you all are not defending these nominees and the Administration because *gasp* just like the defenders of the prior administration it was more important for your guy in the White House to look good and your team to win. That isnt change.. its more of the same.

NS.

[Cold_Zero]

Whens the last time we have recalled a senator?

As I really can only speak about Indiana, Nov 2, 1980 Dan Quayle defeated incumbent Senior Indiana Senator Birch Bayh, 54% to 46%. The guy (Bayh) had been in the Senate for 18 years! While I can not claim this 'victory' since I was too young to vote and did not live in the state at the time, the most recent recall of a Senator that comes to my mind was Rick Santorum in 2006.

Quote » House member? [/quote]The 2006 off year elections come to my mind. Even though my Congresswoman was not swept out, plenty of the Indiana Republican delegation was swept out of office and replaced by Democrats.

Quote »Hell ANY recall election is rare. Whens the last time someone organized a real march on a seriously important issue? We all have issues with the bailouts, so, wheres the counter activity for that? [/quote]I know at a State level and very much at my local level, we had organized mass protests in the streets over Property Tax assessment and adjustment. So much so that the organized marching through the streets scared the s*** out of Democrats and Republicans (a like) that saw the impending 2008 elections as motivation to fix the problem. We had people with 400-800% increases on the adjusted assessment of their property values and they were claiming to remove all politicians at the state and local levels of government.

This stuff happens, it just doesnt get televised by the National Mass Media Complex.