Horrible, horrible news. $3700 Built engine exploded 15 minutes ago.

[sunnys14]

and sorry about your loss man... lets hope others who use stock rods wont be as unfortunate

[virus77]

Sorry to hear that, same thing happened to me, I know how you feel. Ive dropped an SR in ever since, seems to be more reliable so far but its at a lower power level so it could be associated with that. But its the curse of the 240 that kill it for me. Fix one thing and everyhing else goes to hell. I broke my driveshaft and my diff in the last month and have been through all hell trying to get it running again, one thing after another goes wrong.

[Mustangs_Suck]

Thread #15 that makes me glad I decided to put my KA-T up for sale. There's just something wrong with these motors..god damn US and their b.s. smog testing - should of just been shipped over the SR in the first place.

[Mustangs_Suck]

Also - do yourself a favor and sell the car..just get away from it. If you want another 240sx - buy another one..and mod as you go along when you are ready..I sometimes feel as if you get personal hex's on certain cars where you just need to sell them and completely start over with a new one (which is what I am doing right now...$14000 in a 240 that only has 200rwhp due to repairing so god damn much is enough...time to cut my losses and start anew).

Sorry to hear about it man...keep your head about you tho - after all it is JUST a car.

[neoamd]

Arugh Mark-- thats horrible to hear! I know - both from my own experinces and from yours that you've told me - how much work went into these engines, and how much is lost in an instant. Arugh man... I'm sorry...

FIZNAT answer your PMs on KA-T.org! I want your mani/dp/wg dump..

Sorry to go OT.

Josh

[turtl631]

First off, I'm truly sorry to hear this Mark. I know you've had a real crappy summer, you definitely didn't need this to happen. The last couple months have been pretty rough on the KA-T community, but I hope everyone doesn't give up. Every engine has its pitfalls. KAs are a bit quirky because they were NA stock, so you have to be conscious of that when boosting one. SRs do lose you a lot of displacement though, spool turbos much later, and most of the guys with more than about 330 whp have cams and aftermarket intake manifold. I think that the costs to get to a certain power level end up being pretty equal among the Nissan lineup. RB25s have big displacement and hold lots of power, but the cost of entry is quite high and a straight 6 looks stupid in an S chassis engine bay IMO. Its all about compromises.

[HolyShiznit]

There's just something wrong with these motors..god damn US and their b.s. smog testing - should of just been shipped over the SR in the first place.

^^^ Oh please, people are over generalizing WAY too much. I should dig up the thread on FreshAlloy of my buddies SR that randomly popped a piston, or the SR's that have dented oil pickups, or...... **** HAPPENS. We are modding our cars people and pushing limits, this could happen to anything, even the mighty 2JZ can pop. Back on topic........

[MarkEmark]

Welcome to the world of boost. Stop crying and build a better motor already. And I'm sorry, but a rod doesnt do that from just boost pressure, something happened to that motor. You can break a rod and not have a reason.

I dont know why everyone is under the assumption that a boosted motor will last forever and ever and ever. IT WILL BLOWUP, IT IS A FACT OF LIFE. If I felt bad for myself after I blew 8 HG's, 2 motors, 4 trannys, an incredibly PITA wiring problem or how many times I have replaced parts for bigger/better ones, maxed those out, then replace again and had to start over with stuff not wanting to work right, I would be where I am at now, 5hp from the KA HP record and one tenth off the ET record. Hard work, dedication and patience WILL pay off.

Rick

Thanks for, uhh, your support.

The thing is, random rod failure has now happened to THREE well-tuned KA-Ts that were running very well (ignore my boost leak problems, that has nothing to do with this)...it just doesn't make sense. And a lot of what I've been seeing has been the #3 rod in particular.

As I said, there was no over-revving, the engine has NEVER been over-revved, I was only at 3500 rpm @ 16-17 psi, which is more like 13 psi from a T3/T04E. There is no reason rods should be failing at this low of boost pressure and at this level of "stress." I hadn't been beating the car for hours or anything like that...I was literally out for about 10 minutes and hit boost only once before in 4th gear before this happened. There was no oil-starvation; it had a brand new oil pump, new clevite bearings, etc. It's just a really weird phenomenon, and like Fiznat, I'm sure we'll never know what exactly caused it.

And to clear things up, these were stock OEM rods with 97,000 miles on them. they were NOT re-shot peened. They were only checked for cracks/trueness by the machine shop and were determined to be in perfect shape.

Everyone keeps asking me why I didn't upgrade to Pauter or Crower rods. I was very close to doing so, but honestly, the principle reason I didn't upgrade them is because everyone in the KA-T community said that stock KA rods can handle well over 400 whp. I wasn't planning on making anything more than ~300-330 whp, so I thought I was WELL in the safe-limit. Rods would have been another $700 (I don't know if Eagle even makes them for KA's yet), and I thought it wasn't worth it, being that the rods seemed bullet-proof from the factory.

I don't know if I'm even going to have time to tear the whole thing down...I leave soon, and it'll just make me sadder looking at the poor thing. If I do, you can be sure I'll post pictures.

It's just a shame that I never got this damn thing running the way I wanted to..all that I wanted was 16 psi all the way to redline in every gear...at least Foster and Virus were able to experience an extremely high horsepower, well-running KA before they self-destructed. I never got that chance. Engine had only 1000 miles on it, and was only boosted for 500.

I don't really want to get rid of the car...the chassis is such a good roller...unlike a lot of people, all of the suspension and brakes and wheels and tires were upgraded long before the engine was boosted. There's countless modifications done to it (http://www.angelfire.com/theforce/ka24d ... tions.html), and I'd hate having to start from scratch again. Not to mention, I wouldn't get 1/2 what I invested in it. It's my first car, and I have a pretty sentimental attachment to it.

Thanks for the kind words anyhow.

[chandler]

if fiz doesnt take my spare block ill give it to you man, just come and get it and its yours

[hannibal]

Marc, sorry to hear about your motor.

My advice would be to concentrate on school right now, and give yourself time to forget about it. Just take your time making the decision on what to do with the car...

[swwifty]

Mark, I think you've invested way too much time to ditch the car now. Find another block and put some good rods into it. Sure, it's gonna be a good bit more of work, but it would be worth it after all the time investment you have put into it already.

[S14tat]

wow another one. what was the weather and temperature like when the engine poped? i usually try to never boost it when its hot outside, you'll never be definit of when it might preignite from crap gas.

like a month ago i was mysteriously picking up hard knock signals from my car with the safcII when i hit boost even at night when its only 85 degrees. i then stopped and installed a apexi multichecker to check if timing jumped. but i didn't bother flooring the car again to check timing until i got a freshbatch of gas. when i refilled and beat the hell out of the car, the knocking stopped.

things like this can happen man. you just gotta be super careful. i'm running 14.5 psi on my stock rods on a T04B with a V trim wheel and i'm still fine. everytime i floor my car i would check for knocks so thats the most important thing i think.

well good luck to you, if anything just run the stock bone yard ka block in there for now and save up again for a real good engine rebuild again. i'm sure if taken care of right, teh bone yard ka-t will last long.

my stock block has 118K miles on it, it was turboed since 76K miles and thats over 2 and a half years ago.

[MarkEmark]

if fiz doesnt take my spare block ill give it to you man, just come and get it and its yours

I know Sepp offered a 60k mile stock block with arias pistons to Foster in the other thread....I don't know why he wouldn't take that block...I know I would if I had the chance! Anyway, if Foster doesn't take your block, this could work out, because my parents drive me down to Chapel Hill, North Carolina to move into school in a couple of weeks..they could stop by on the way back and pick it up...not sure where charlotte is in relation to Chapel Hill but I'm sure they wouldn't mind driving a little extra to get that block for me. How many miles are on it/what year is it?

[Jookmasta]

well i think chapel hill is like 40 miles out from charlotte as i got stuck there in february of 2004 when about 22 inches of snow fell there on a freakish nite. fortunately i wasnt boosted yet but my car does sit .75 inches from the ground.............ya u can guess the rest. back on topic.

so i still cant get over the fact that you were only running 16 psi on ur str8 T3 and it popped with a fully built engine. id ask what timing you are running but u were running a jwt ecu if im not mistaken. also ur low mileage is the freakish part about it. i run 12 psi daily on mine and go into boost at least once every time its on the road. ive gone thru 3 or more oil changes and i have even ran mine on the track (about 15 runs). i have a stock block with stock internals and to see urs pop and fiz's pop is nothing more than scary. u do have a good point about the #3 thing. seeing that me and you are similar in age, i can see where college can definitely put a brick wall as to the progress of rebuilding the car or figuring out what to do. My advice would be to get ur school stuff str8 and if anything drop a stock KA in it so that you'll have a running car for college.

[Mustangs_Suck]

^^^ Oh please, people are over generalizing WAY too much. I should dig up the thread on FreshAlloy of my buddies SR that randomly popped a piston, or the SR's that have dented oil pickups, or...... **** HAPPENS. We are modding our cars people and pushing limits, this could happen to anything, even the mighty 2JZ can pop. Back on topic........

Yes all motors can go wrong..but this is just one after another - we're starting to see a trend - try to get over 300rwhp and your motor pops.

And I don't think 300rwhp is pushing it's limits at ALL - maybe on a stock internal motor it is, but definitley not a rebuilt one - I mean we have two over the 600rwhp mark.

Pretty much everyone that blows their KA - the #3 rod bearing fails - maybe we should look into this? every engine has it's weak point it seems - and it seems like this is where the KA sucks - is there anything we can do to have extra strengthening on that rod bearing???
Modified by Mustangs_Suck at 9:18 PM 8/15/2005

[S14tat]

like i said earlier, it could be anything. my car was knocking because of something stupid like a bad batch of fuel even though was still 93 octane. if you don't look at the safcII or any kind of knock meter, theres no way you could tell cause those knocks that it was picking up was silent. and you can never tell if you have bad gas.

[Mustangs_Suck]

like i said earlier, it could be anything. my car was knocking because of something stupid like a bad batch of fuel even though was still 93 octane. if you don't look at the safcII or any kind of knock meter, theres no way you could tell cause those knocks that it was picking up was silent. and you can never tell if you have bad gas.

that would be ridiculous if all these KA's are blowing because of bad gas.

there is a weak point we are all overlooking - many say it's the rods we are giving too much credit, and while I think they are right in some ways, it seems that it's the #3 rod bearing in particular that is ruining ppl's motors and wasting TONS of money.

[MarkEmark]

like i said earlier, it could be anything. my car was knocking because of something stupid like a bad batch of fuel even though was still 93 octane. if you don't look at the safcII or any kind of knock meter, theres no way you could tell cause those knocks that it was picking up was silent. and you can never tell if you have bad gas.

Like Fiznat, I'm almost 100% positive it had nothing to do with knock/detonation. I was only running 16 psi, had low compression pistons, a multi layer steel head gasket, alcohol injection (which works extraordinarily well at preventing knock), a large, efficient intercooler, and 93 octane gas from the same place I've filled the car up with since I bought it 3 years ago. Also, the engine was running conservatively rich, like all JWT ECU's. A/Fs were probably in the 10's, and the timing wasn't anything crazy either.

Not to mention, would severe detonation cause the rod to shatter and punch a hole through the block? I know it'll bust ring lands or a head gasket, but a rod at 3500 rpm?

[GEO]

Why build an engine without building the foundation? Would you rather a bridge that crosses a river be built of wood or steel? In the future, if I ever build a KA motor, its going to get everything possible. Thats just me tho, I take eveyrthing into fact. Hahaha all well, we all learn from experience. Its sad we have to learn the hard way, .

[Craving4Boost]

i hear you're quite the "safe-playing" guy GEO thats good though, play it safe and it will be safe

[WDRacing]

For those of us who actually care, the KA seems to have an oil problem under load. I'm almost certain now this is the problem. A bearing failure is my guess. Whether it is a clogged jet or not, a rod just doesn't break. Especially with almost no power or rpm being applied at the breaking point.

WD

[Mustangs_Suck]

Why build an engine without building the foundation? Would you rather a bridge that crosses a river be built of wood or steel? In the future, if I ever build a KA motor, its going to get everything possible. Thats just me tho, I take eveyrthing into fact. Hahaha all well, we all learn from experience. Its sad we have to learn the hard way, .

Exactly how I feel about the KA. We haven't had a fully built motor with stronger than stock rods blow yet. If you want to do more than a typical T25 set up, I'd say go all out on the motor and re-do it all - yes it will cost more than not doing it, but you'll save alot of money in the long run when you don't have to do it again and again due to the engine blowing.

If I don't get a buyer for my car by the time winter hits..I'll most likely just go all out with it and cross my fingers that re-doing the rods will cure this little weak link problem a few have had lately.

[1WheelWonder]

I'm sorry to hear about your engine Mark.

[duncan351]

my kat ideas are relly fading away... sr20 or rb here i come.

Easy there Killer!!! SRs & RBs will blow just as fast as a KA. So don't think it gonna get any better over there. First off, you have to decide what kind of car you want. Do you want a car that's quick and respected or a car that will kill dam near anything on the street? If you're just looking for respect and want to pull c5 vettes, give Vipers hell(stuff like this) then you can still make a good dependable KA turbo kit and it will last. The powerrange is from 300-350ish. That turbo is too small for 16psi in my opinion. You're pushing nothing but a bunch of hot air in the engine and choking it up on the other side because the turbine wheel is choking up the engine even if you have a .63 A/R housing. If you have anything smaller then that's eve worse.

Also, did you tear the motor down to see if the wrist pin still move freely? Just because a pro built it doesn't mean they are perfect or a foreign object could have gotten in a bearing and siezed. Tear that motor apart see if you can learn from the problem. Also, I have a professional engine build her in TX that's in the NHRA Hall of fame for building the most powerful engines & he's about half that cost. Let me know!Duron

[huguetpj]

Mark: hang in there man. All of us craving the big numbers are bound to run straight into a wall. I did just 2 weeks ago.... Fiz like 3 ago and as somebody said... when it rain it pours. And this is how it's going to be... the first day, denial... you don't want to believe it blew. Second day... sell sell sell, like when the stock markets come down. But guess what, as does the markets something is bound to come up. 2 weeks from my running with the wall I'm already thinking on how to get the money to start "again". But it's not really starting again, like Fiz said, live and learn. Your experience is going to be pretty handy when doing stuff again. Live and learn my friend, live and learn. Also there are lot's of other parts other than the block that you already have.

My road, your road, Fiz's road and almost anybody in here have been harsh and long. But look back at what you have accomplished? Don't measure it by how much money you have spent, how much money you owe (just don't get too much in debt )but on how much this projects has given back to you. Hey, I'm willing to garage my car months at a time... cause for that month or two I used it @ 14PSI... hell it was worth it. I bought a bike just to have something to take me from point A to point B... hey you can't ask much else from 7BHP

Store your car for a couple of weeks... try not to look at it or use it. Hell, your going to school, can you store it until you get back? Was that your plan anyway? Then do so. I'm leaving for China in a week's time for 2 and a half months. I have decided to store my car until then and see how I feel when I get back. It's to think with a cold head.

[huguetpj]

^^^ Oh please, people are over generalizing WAY too much. I should dig up the thread on FreshAlloy of my buddies SR that randomly popped a piston, or the SR's that have dented oil pickups, or...... **** HAPPENS. We are modding our cars people and pushing limits, this could happen to anything, even the mighty 2JZ can pop. Back on topic........

HS: you're right. How many KATs are out there? How many have blown due to rod failure without any other foreseeable explanation (except the oil thingy discussed by WD)?

Just because 4 of us had problems very near to each other does not mean the KAs suck. It's just we don't dicuss SRs blowing up in this forum, but I can assure you they are. Try and reach 400WHP with an SR with nothing but forged pistons inside the block (as I did) and it may blow up, just as the KA.

[klattr1]

Mark,

how many miles were on the motor and what do you mean you were "probably" running 10:1s afrs? did you verify it or just assume it was that?

maybe try out another machine shop next time where you know someone has had a KA done before and is known to work. i know i could have a fully built KA made for ya (Crower rods, whatever forged pistons and rings combo you want at whatever compression, bearings, gasket kit, machining and assembly) for about $2400 and I know for sure it would work the way you want it to.

then all you need to do is verify base timing and air fuel ratios after motor is broken in fully. Chapel Hill isnt too far away from where I live (Charlotte) so if you need any help or resources, let me know.

for people like "Mustangs_Suck" who are trying to convince Mark to give up and sell his car and ditch the KA, please stop cuz sometimes people do learn the hard way but come around and make it twice as good and make it worthwhile. i was in the same boat a few years ago.

[WDRacing]

I smoked 5 RB20's trying to reach 500WHP in my Skyline. All were do to me being inexperienced and pushing the envelope to hard and to often. I've learned so much by not reading and learning, however, the cost of said knowledge was sveral thousand dollars and countless hours wasted.

Things are never as easy as they seem. Every single article I've ever read that was written by any tuner with any amount of experience, has addressed issues that I take fro granted everyday. But guess what, their motors don't whip rods through the block or smoke ringlands cause they detonated. They make record setting amounts of hp and win races.

The KAT community has become a realm of short cuts and short cummings. We need to get back to basics fella's. The negativity in here as of late is disturbing.

WD

[Thee 240sx Owner]

The KAT community has become a realm of short cuts and short cummings. We need to get back to basics fella's. The negativity in here as of late is disturbing.

WD

that is exactly right

[Fenvy]

... cumming...

blah blah blah... cumming... blah

anyways, is the alcohol injection for sale?