Home-made setup thoughts

[Spoolpigeon]

I'm considering boosting my KA, but not for big power #'s liek most folks, just so the car will be a little more fun to drive and mabey spin the tires when it's dry outside :pface So here's what i'm thinking:

JGS manifold14b from a 1g DSM2.5 DPStock exhaust (just for a while)silvia 370cc injectors2 1g side mounts welded together as a FMICDSM BOVfuel pumpand running only 7-8 psi

the 14b should spool quickly and give me some good mid-range power, probably won't flow enough and peter out abit at the top end, but like i said i'm not power hungry with this set up.

Also, should i worry about harming the internals with a small set-up like this? I was told the KA had really weak ringlands and it wouldn't last anytime, but i'm not so sure i believe him after reading of others' set ups.

any input will be greatly appreciated! Thanks!

[nlzmo400r]

well 7-8psi isnt 'REALLY low boost' for a KA, but it sounds like you have a pretty good idea going there, however hte ringlands on the KAs are pretty bad, everyone thats had the turbo KA blow is cause of ring landings. Oh, and the idea of welding together two side mounts to make a front mount is a good idea, although i dunno if you could find two not beat up side mounts

[SunshineAcid]

just run it at ~4 psi.if youre not looking for power, just a bit more fun, that would put you up a good notch in power. plus your turbo wouldnt peter out near as fast.

[nlzmo400r]

thats what i was saying,running slightly lower boost. How much power would 4psi put out? id say a good additional 5ohp or so

[Spoolpigeon]

well, the stock dsm wastegates are set @ 7-8 psi and aren't adjustable. But i could cut the watesgate actuator arm and thread it and make it adjustable and lower the boost to under 7 psi. That would make it safer on the engine and i could easily get away with the stock fuel pump then too.

[Nathan]

Why not consider a T3 from a Z31? Its easier to find a cheap, ready made manifold then It'll also hold up to your 6-7psi goal just fine. Also, you cant just plug those 370's in, you'll need SOMETHING to control them. If was building a budget low boost setup I think I would do a hacked maf, T3 turbo, starion or NPR front mount, 370's, a walbro fuel pump, and probably the etd racing manifold. That'd be about a 1500 dollar setup after a few other parts you'd need (ic piping, incidental other things) but would be reliable and pretty darn fun I think

[j-z]

i second the t3. you will have alot more fun with a t3 than a dsm 14b. and run a external gate. you can find a used tial for around 160 shipped.

[nlzmo400r]

Why not consider a T3 from a Z31? Its easier to find a cheap, ready made manifold then It'll also hold up to your 6-7psi goal just fine. Also, you cant just plug those 370's in, you'll need SOMETHING to control them. If was building a budget low boost setup I think I would do a hacked maf, T3 turbo, starion or NPR front mount, 370's, a walbro fuel pump, and probably the etd racing manifold. That'd be about a 1500 dollar setup after a few other parts you'd need (ic piping, incidental other things) but would be reliable and pretty darn fun I think

[raging panda]

Internal waste gates save money and if youre not running a lot of boost they wont cause any problems. If hes using a jgs manifold, he doesnt have any trouble worrying about the fitment because they offer flanges for the 14b i think.

[Spoolpigeon]

the t3 is a good idea, but i'm not going for big power, I'm goin CHEAP! JGS offers a flange for the 14b, and i have access to a 14b now for dirt cheap. It's just gonna be easier for me to use the DSM turbo. And why spend the $ on a pwr or starion IC when i can get 2 DSM ones cheaper and i'll weld them together @ work? With my planning, i'll be boosted for around $600.

[Nathan]

Can you weld aluminum? If so...*****in cool! I just assumed you would be paying for the welding, in which case the npr or starion IC might be cheaper and every bit as good as 2 dsm cores welded together As for the T3, I was thinking at a junkyard, for under 200...but if you have a line on a cheap 14b then let us know how it works!

[osofasts13]

isn't a 14b smaller than a t-25, i asked if a t-25 would work decent with a ka a while ago and everybody was like don't even waste your time or money. so you guys think a 14b will work?? i can get one of those cheap!! i work with dsm guys all day, and all there cars are upgraded with bigger turbos and there stock ones are just sitting around. maybe i might try it?? my friend boosted his non-turbo talon with a 14b turbo and it came out pretty well. the non-turbo talon (and eclipse) come with a 2.4 liter motor, similar to ours....

[Nathan]

I have NO idea what size a 14b is...

[nlzmo400r]

isn't a 14b smaller than a t-25, i asked if a t-25 would work decent with a ka a while ago and everybody was like don't even waste your time or money. so you guys think a 14b will work?? i can get one of those cheap!! i work with dsm guys all day, and all there cars are upgraded with bigger turbos and there stock ones are just sitting around. maybe i might try it?? my friend boosted his non-turbo talon with a 14b turbo and it came out pretty well. the non-turbo talon (and eclipse) come with a 2.4 liter motor, similar to ours....

k, first of all, the 14b is the T-25 (interchangable names). The 1st and 2nd gen eclipses/talons/lasers (although there is no second gen laser) came with the t25 (aka 14b). And no, the t25 wouldnt really supply enough boost to make good power in a big 2.4 liter, however it may get u to 18o or so, but even that would be asking a lot from a lil t25,you're better off finding something like a small t28, or possibly a 16G from DSM guys to slap onto your KA for some 'decent' power gains (and this way you wont overload the turbo). Also, the non turbo talon (1st and 2nd gen) came with a 2.o liter. They never had a 2.4 liter, the 2nd gen eclipse/talon came with the chrysler 42oA motor, a 2.o liter inline4 n/a. In the 1st gens, the non turbo's came with i believe a 4G64. Another 2.o liter n/a (mitsubishi block though), this block was also used in the 2nd gen eclipse Spyder.

[CaptainHenreh]

It's amazing how little is known about DSM's around here.

The 14B is a mitsubishi turbo. It is "larger" than a T25, more than marginally so.

The First Gen DSM's came only with 4G63's. Some with turbos, some not. The turbos had hydraulic clutches, the N/A had a cable clutch.

Second Gens had 3 engines. The 420A from the Neon (2.0) the 4G63 in the turbos (Mitsu block) and the 4G64 came in the N/A eclipse Spyder. (Also a mitsu block)

All of the second gens had "hybrid" T-25 turbos with goofy mitsu exhaust housings. The first gens had TD0-5H 14b's (manual) or 12g's (automatic). The second gens made more power than the first gens with the smaller turbo by benefit if a slightly higher compression ratio.

The 14B may be a little small for a KA, but it would spool up nice, and you could always easily swap it out for a 16G. Only problem I see is that mitsu turbos are a little esoteric.

[IceCold240]

<snip>The First Gen DSM's came only with 4G63's. Some with turbos, some not. The turbos had hydraulic clutches, the N/A had a cable clutch.<snip>

1st Gen Eclipse RS and GS had the same engines?

[Spoolpigeon]

the 14b is quite a bit bigger than the t-25, they are NOT the same. the 2g t-25 flows around 275cfm adn the 14b flows more like 400cfm. in fact, 2g guys consider the 14b a turbo uprade.

CaptainHenreh is right on all that motor stuff.

I can't weld aluminum my self, but 3 guys i work with can! definite bonus when working at a tool and die shop welding the manifold and junk will be easy.

I'm also considering pulling the turbine housing off the 14b and doing a clean porting job in one of our mills, mabey that'll help it breath at higher RPM's

[CaptainHenreh]

Oh, you caught me.

I forgot about the giant hunk of **** 12v 1.8 litre engine that came in the very base models.

But really, is it worth mentioning?

but Spoolpigeon, wasn't stock boost 12 psi on DSMs? I think a 14B would be more than sufficient, but 12 pounds...sounds like alot to me. And if you have the resources to port your housings, I'd say go ahead and do both compressor and exhaust housings.

[Spoolpigeon]

but Spoolpigeon, wasn't stock boost 12 psi on DSMs?

no, it's 7-8psi, just when you do the free-mods on a DSM the boost runs up to 11-13psi, and nearly every dsm i've ever touched has had the free mods on it. but a completely bone stock one should be 7-8psi.

i'm gonna cut and thread the actuator rod anyways so i can set it lower than factory boost settings for just tooling around town and stuff. then run it up to 8-10 psi W/ race gas when i go auto-xing or whatever. I just don't want to run my motor into the ground everyday.

[nlzmo400r]

thanks for the correction guys, i was told that ALL the 1g and 2g turbo's came with a T25 (which i was also told is the same size as hte t25)

[junk240sx]

Very interesting just becuase we have similar goals. I'm working on mine too and here's my setup:JGS Manifold14B turbo1G SMICSR20DET 370cc InjectorsTurbo XS BOVHKS Super AFC

Only problem I'm trying to figure out now is how to remount the wastegate because the JGS manifold mounts the turbo on top meaning you have to clock the turbo to get the oil feed/oil drain back the right way. Once you do that though, now you got the problem off the wastegate not matching up. I need a custom bracket to make the WG fit. know of any?

btw, i don't think you'll need to upgrade the fuel pump even if you were to run 7-8psi. With those 370cc's and a AFR, you should be fine...the fuel pump can handle it.

[nlzmo400r]

i agree on the fuel pump, espeically if you have the 37occ injectors and you're only running 7-8psi

[Spoolpigeon]

cool, no fuel pump it is! that'll save me a few bucks.

about the JGS manifold, it doesn't have to mount the turbo on top. It's a weld-it-yourself kit, you can put it underneath like a normal set up. that's what i'm gonna do so i won't have to make any custom o2 housings.

i thought about making a custom o2 housing for the 14b but making the wastegate dump external and i could run it out behind the drivers front tire. External dumps just sound mean But i'm too lazy to go to all that trouble

[nlzmo400r]

how hard would it to make the custom o2 housings, when people say custom, do htey actually fabricate the housings out of something else or just relocate them?

[pearlwhite95]

the 14b/td05 is a little bit bigger than the t25 but is still too small to run on a 2.4 / the ka motors. oh and the stock boost on a 14b is 10.5 i know this cause i just sold my 91 talon that ran a 13.1, earlier somebody asked about cuting and welding two sidemounts to make a frontmount. i thought about that alot but dont know how well it could be done. i honestly think your better off picking one up from e-bay in the long run it will be a lot cheaper and look a lot better. just my opinion i think that dsm's are the most unreliable peices of junk!

[nlzmo400r]

welcome to NICO, Pearl, i hope u like it here, everyone should be very helpful and informative (just as you just were) hope u like it here. And also, just out of curiosity, was your talon an AWD or not? Oh, if you have an pics of your car, go ahead and post them up in our members ride secition. And now that ive jacked this thread so badly, wanna give me some details aobut your car? or future plans? sorry for blabbin for so long.

[pearlwhite95]

I had some pics of my talon but it was no beauty. mods on it were a rebuilt motor using the second gen. pistons bored .20 over. ported heads, turbo,exhaust manifold and intake manifold. 2 1/5" downpipe gutted cat to 3" the rest of the way. all free mods done crushed bov, custom intercooler piping, mbc and others just cant think. my new 240sx is white with pearl blue, kyb front struts and tokico in the rear. apexi n1 exhaust and a sho gun body kit. as of right now its kindof off the road cause my girlfreind plowed into it with a chevy tahoe "accident" so she says, so im in the process of fixing it i basically need a entire front end. its an automatic right now but am supposed to be getting everything to convert it to 5sp. if the person actually comes trough with it but! oh and yes it was an all wheel drive talon, it would be pretty hard to go that in a front wheel only.i will try to get some pics of my 240 on here asap so you all can see the wonderful benifits of having a girl!!!! sorry to mess this tread up but i think it was dying anyways! this is the best forum that i have come across for the 240 i went on "240sx forums" but it seems like people know more on here!

[pearlwhite95]

oh, how do i change that thing where it says "driving moms car"? its kindof annoying yet funny

[C-Kwik]

well 7-8psi isnt 'REALLY low boost' for a KA, but it sounds like you have a pretty good idea going there, however hte ringlands on the KAs are pretty bad, everyone thats had the turbo KA blow is cause of ring landings. Oh, and the idea of welding together two side mounts to make a front mount is a good idea, although i dunno if you could find two not beat up side mounts

I disagree here. The reason that ring lands blow would be due to detonation. Control that and it's unlikely the pistons will be a problem, especially at such relatively low boost levels. I've seen ring lands blown on a Stock internal supra. Keeping in mind that the Stock Supra has some pretty strong internals. Ringlands, even when made pretty think are still likely to go under enough detonation.

As far as using sidemounts, most typical sidemounts, or even factory intercoolers tend to be small and have a low cross-sectional flow area. They tend to exhibit a lot of pressure drop, meaning the turbo will have to work harder to create the same manifold pressure as a system with a higher flowing I/C. This means the I/C will have to work even harder to try and cool the charge air and it will see heatsoak much sooner. Unless you weld them in parallel, you will likely increase the pressure drop, further creating a necessity to overwork the turbo and the intercooler. It may help with cooling a little more, but for most applications, a good solid front mount will do wonders. They tend to be beefier overall and can usually absorb more heat(like a heat sink) than a typical stock intercooler. Most stock intercoolers(except some of those on newer cars, ie EVO, WRX, SRT-4) are rather flimsy and built like a stock radiator. They are not designed with extended periods of boost in mind and can only absorb a limited amount of heat. And since they do not typically get enough airflow to effectively dissapate heat as fast as it is coming in, heatsoak will be imminent, especially on a road course.

[nlzmo400r]

oh, how do i change that thing where it says "driving moms car"? its kindof annoying yet funny

that only changes with the amount of posts u have on this site. The more posts u have, the 'title' changes. Soon you'll have 'hubcaps', then 'I/H/E', Then 'Bolt on turbo' etc