Home-made setup thoughts

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

C-Kwik wrote:I disagree here. The reason that ring lands blow would be due to detonation. Control that and it's unlikely the pistons will be a problem, especially at such relatively low boost levels. I've seen ring lands blown on a Stock internal supra. Keeping in mind that the Stock Supra has some pretty strong internals. Ringlands, even when made pretty think are still likely to go under enough detonation.

As far as using sidemounts, most typical sidemounts, or even factory intercoolers tend to be small and have a low cross-sectional flow area. They tend to exhibit a lot of pressure drop, meaning the turbo will have to work harder to create the same manifold pressure as a system with a higher flowing I/C. This means the I/C will have to work even harder to try and cool the charge air and it will see heatsoak much sooner. Unless you weld them in parallel, you will likely increase the pressure drop, further creating a necessity to overwork the turbo and the intercooler. It may help with cooling a little more, but for most applications, a good solid front mount will do wonders. They tend to be beefier overall and can usually absorb more heat(like a heat sink) than a typical stock intercooler. Most stock intercoolers(except some of those on newer cars, ie EVO, WRX, SRT-4) are rather flimsy and built like a stock radiator. They are not designed with extended periods of boost in mind and can only absorb a limited amount of heat. And since they do not typically get enough airflow to effectively dissapate heat as fast as it is coming in, heatsoak will be imminent, especially on a road course.

i agree somewhat about your I/C idea, bit if it were me trying to find an intercooler, id try to find a wrecked EVo (believe me theres a lot of em) and rip one off of there. The two welded side mounts will of course heatsink quicker than a good FMIC, But for the price, its not a bad idea, and it should work

Post by **junk240sx** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

First off, yes, you CAN make the JGS manifold anyway you want. I just don't have access to a welder and didn't want to find someone to make it for me so I found one already made.

As far as someone mentioning that the 14b turbo is too small and a piece of junk, I completely disagree. There's people running the stock sr20det turbo's with low boost and getting nice good dyno numbers. 14b is NOT too small for a ka24de engine. It might be a different story if we're talking serious boost numbers.We gotta remember most people aren't planning on boosting more than 8psi.

Now pearl, you mentioned that the 14b is stock 13psi? Where did you get that? I have several DSM friends and also post on dsmtuners.com and all say that it is 7-8psi stock. Unless you had a messed up turbo, I would have to say you're wrong on that. Of course I'm no expert but I think you should verify that info on the WG.

Regarding O2 housing. All it really is for 14b turbo is the exhaust flange with a pipe to connect to the exhaust. pretty much what most people would call a downpipe. So if you can't use the stock 14b one, you have to get a flange and have them weld you up a downpipe onto it. just costs some extra money...

Post by **osofasts13** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

yeah i got a friend who is running a 14b in his z24 cavilier and is posting some pretty impressive #'s for a cavilier. the motor in it is similar in size to our 2.4 liter. i posted earlier it was a talon, but my bad i meant to say it was a cavi. alll stock with just a turbo kit, i think he got like 210 to the wheels or something similar, running 6-7 pounds of boost....

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

damn, well if that 2.4 liter put down 21o whp on 7lbs, then im sure hte KA could produce just as much, possibly even more considering the KA has more power stock over the cavi's motor, i believe the KA has higher compression than the cavi motor

Post by **Spoolpigeon** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

new update: i just got a Starion FMIC for.....FREE!!!

a friend of mine had an extra one and i did some porting/polishing on his 16g, then he just gave it to me. It needs some TLC, but who cares, it was free!

Post by **pearlwhite95** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

when did i ever say that the stock boost is 13? you need to learn how to read!!!! the stock boost is (10.5) again 10.5,,, and i happy that you have freinds who have a dsm but also keep in mind that i actually owned one! not that im proud of the peice of **** but! oh and i guess you can run the 14b on the ka, because its cool to keep replacing it! if your going to turbo the ka just get the right size to begain with!

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

no reason to get angry, simple misunderstanding, sure i agree that it wold be better to just get a larger turbo to start off with, but he's seeing what he can do with very limited funds and no intention of huge power, so he's trying to find the cheapest turbo possible, but reliability is also an issue, and apparently very much so with a 14b powering a 2.4 liter

Post by **Turb0wned** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

im sure ur gonna want big power after while we're humans well always want more of something

Post by **pearlwhite95** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

im not getting mad just dont understand why people have to try and prove me wrong on things, im only here to help and in the same boat as most of u's here. if you can just go to a junk yard and try to find a turbo deisel truck and gank the turbo off that beast! more than big enough and yes i dont see any prob with the sr to use a 14b because it has the same displacement as its original motor but you have to keep in mind that the ka's are almost the same size as a lot of v6's

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

well first off i agree with 95ka24de, and therefore, pearlwhite seems to be right too, if you're gonna want more power (inevitable) the start with a bigger turbo, in whch case, take pearwhite's suggestion and just get a bigger one and go from there, and yes the ka is a pretty big 4banger. There arent a lot of 4s taht are bigger, well other than the QR25de (another nissan motor). The only thing popular i can think of (not sroked) is the H23a, the 2.3 non vtec honda motor, and the 2.2 h22a with vtec

Post by **junk240sx** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

I appologize if i misread your post. And what I mean by i have friends that own DSM's is they build them for a living...AND owns them. So why wouldn't I take what they say as true? I don't udnerstand what you have to freak out about.

And for all those that keep saying how bad it is to run a small turbo on the KA's. Have you ever done it that you say it's so bad?

Read half way down in this link and see what's been posted.http://nicoclub.com/zerothread?id=50109

14b is not too small for someone with a cheap budget turbo setup.

Post by **Nathan** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

This thread needs less of this: :fight and more of this :cuddle maybe we could even get something like this going on! :spank:boink You boys have fun now! :fruit

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

haha, quite a good use of smilies in tehre

Post by **Spoolpigeon** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

nlzmo400r wrote:no reason to get angry, simple misunderstanding, sure i agree that it wold be better to just get a larger turbo to start off with, but he's seeing what he can do with very limited funds and no intention of huge power, so he's trying to find the cheapest turbo possible, but reliability is also an issue, and apparently very much so with a 14b powering a 2.4 liter

Exactly. I undrestand a bigger turbo will better suite the KA for bigger power gains and possible future builds, but this is a BUDGET KIT!!! and 'big power' and 'budget' just don't work together. At the rate i'm going, i'll have my car boosted for under $500, since i'll only be spending money on the manifold, turbo, and injectors. everything else i already have or can fabricate myself.

Besides, a 14b is easily upgraded to a 16g, big16g, any of the 20gs, or even a FP green or red. All of which are basicly direct replacements for the 14b, so upgading down the road won't be a problem.

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

a later upgrade is kinda what i figured since u dont have the money right now. Also, what is an FP green or red?

Post by **Spoolpigeon** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

Forced Performance (FP) is a turbo company. They make stuff mostly for DSM's. The Green is a street oriented turbo, it's frickin huge though. There was a guy in Indiana making 429whp in a stock internal 4g63 mirage. he later switched to a red (race oriented one), on pump gas, lower boost and a very mild street tune it made 427whp.

Post by **Spoolpigeon** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

http://www.forcedperformance.net/

Post by **kool-aid54** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

who is JGS and what kind of turbo came in the 89-91 ford probes. I just got one out of a probe and the piping and intercooler for real cheap and wanted to use it for a learning experience. Also if I make a home made turbo manifold what gauge steel should I use

Post by **nlzmo400r** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

i think you could steel a gauge from anything, and i think mazda used garett turbo's, so probably a t15 or t25 or something

Post by **SunshineAcid** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

VERY small IHI turbos.believe me, my 2.2 626 runs out of steam at 5k

Post by **SunshineAcid** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

although, you *could* do a tbird hybrid. the mx6/probe guys boost 17-18 lbs on that turbo no prob. not to mention its *cheap*

Post by **WDRacing** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

Hmmm.....Ebay is ur friend. There are constantly great turbo's that are actually suited for the 2.4 sized motor. I know you can get some turbo's for cheap at a junkyard, but you won't catch me buying somthing just to swap it out later do to its inefficiences, thats a waste of deniro my friends. Anyone who says they are happy at 8psi is crazy. Once you get there, its far to easy to go beyond. Considering an average gain of 10-12 whp per lb of boost. Installing a BC and going for broke happens more often then not.

WD

Post by **nikn** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

Running a small turbo on a big motor could be pretty dangerous. With such a small turbo, the intake temperature will go up and will contribute to detonation... the 14b turbo has to spin much faster just to make the same boost on the ka as it did on a 4g63.

Im not sure if the 14b is really too small or not, or if it will cause detonation, but i think its something you may wanna think about.

Post by **240mph_sx** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

What the heck is a starion and a z31.

p.s. And who said that the eclipse never came with a 2.4 b/c my friends 99 n/a has a 2.4 in it.

Post by **junk240sx** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

Well, since I last posted in this thread, I've turboed my stock '91 KA24DE using 14b turbo. all i can say is no detonation, no lack of power, and I'm just pure happy. No I don't want to boost anymore than this, I don't think the engine can handle it stock and it's fast with this turbo...seems too fast. all people I've given a ride in it are just simply amazed.

*shrug* so I don't know about all those who say it's too small...yea, maybe above 6k power starts to drop but really you can't use those rpms much on these KA24DE's anyway...the power's at the lower range anyway isn't it? On rainy days with open diff, I can't even keep the tires on the ground above 4k in any gear but 5th.

Post by **whoflungpoo** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

Have you dynoed it yet? I'd be willing to say that after you see a chart, you'll agree that the 14b is to small to be an *effecient* turbo for a 2.4 liter. heck, it starts getting weezy on my DSM.

I'm still attempting to teach myself how to read efficiency maps, but i'm pretty sure you'll be happier with at least a big16 or an Evo 16. Not to push more boost per se, but more EFFICIENT boost.

Post by **junk240sx** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

Yea, I want to go to a dyno but that's $$$ it sucks. If you're gonna go to a dyno, you want to have time to dial it in correctly, not just see how rich your a/f ratio is. BUt then the price jumps to like $150 for first hour...etc.

I bought this car for $1500 and built the turbo for $700. Then to spend $200 on a dyno just makes me cringe.

But i'll eventually get to one...until then, i'll be spewing gas out my tailpipe. :P

Post by **Spoolpigeon** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

congrats on getting your car going and shaking all teh small turbo haters. no one here can seem to understand a low budget, low boost and low power kit is what i and a few others want. I'm not about mega cfm rates, flow maps to match my engine, or making HP #s on a dyno. I will have fun in my car with my baby turbo adn a little more kit in the pants.

Post by **whoflungpoo** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

I'm not hating... just kinda confused....

I could understand not going for hooge par, not going for stupid lag time, and keeping it mild. but too small of a turbo can eventually be detrimental to the whole system... but hey, it's not my car...

so have fun with that bottleneck on there...

Post by **Spoolpigeon** » Wed Feb 25, 2004 7:25 am

whoflungpoo wrote:I'm not hating... just kinda confused....

I could understand not going for hooge par, not going for stupid lag time, and keeping it mild. but too small of a turbo can eventually be detrimental to the whole system... but hey, it's not my car...

so have fun with that bottleneck on there...

I didn't mean to sound like i was pointing a finger at you, i'm not, you're a cool guy. I was just pointing out that any time a small kit is proposed, so many folks jump in saying how it's not gonna work and you have to have some monster turbo to make any power.

i know that my turbo is small, but i've done some serious porting to both the housings to help the flow, spool time, and to help reduce the bottleneck that i'll get around 5k rpm. what i'm looking for is a stock turbo car feel, and with this set-up, it's gonna feel like a stock DSM most likley.

Home-made setup thoughts

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