Holset turbos

[StricNyne]

i am gunna be running a hx35 with 6boost mani i am super excited to see this baby in action

[yotik]

im planning to get one too keep me posted...

i am gunna be running a hx35 with 6boost mani i am super excited to see this baby in action

[toadx8u]

i just bought a hx50 for my rb26 car...woot woot...now when i get home ill need to put 2 motors together and lay the down

[twisted99s10]

im running an rb25 and i would love to hit the 500 hp mark, but being a drift car, decent spool time is more important to me im really torn between the hx35 and the hx40 holset turbos.

also, it would be great to get some sort of a grid going with motor - turbo size - minimum upgrades required to run - and estimated hp range. if some one can get me the info id be glad to arrange it all.

[Sil240]

Not sure but I believe there is some kinda Grid/Chart at the begining of this thread.

But maybe someone could put all relevant data in the First post of this thread.Maybe check out the DSM and Ford and Dodge forums and put all the info together.

[Cjmartz2k]

im running an rb25 and i would love to hit the 500 hp mark, but being a drift car, decent spool time is more important to me im really torn between the hx35 and the hx40 holset turbos.

also, it would be great to get some sort of a grid going with motor - turbo size - minimum upgrades required to run - and estimated hp range. if some one can get me the info id be glad to arrange it all.

Not sure but I believe there is some kinda Grid/Chart at the begining of this thread.

But maybe someone could put all relevant data in the First post of this thread.Maybe check out the DSM and Ford and Dodge forums and put all the info together.

Correct sir Post #14 thanks to the DSM guys.

i just bought a hx50 for my rb26 car...woot woot...now when i get home ill need to put 2 motors together and lay the down

Sweet. Not many poeple use the 50. Think you can get some measurements of the wheels and the shaft of the turbine for me?

[twisted99s10]

i was talking about an rb specific grid. base injectors that you would need to run each turbo, what type of flanges, basically what ever needs to be changed from stock for each of the holset turbos.

[Cjmartz2k]

On any six banger, use 1cc=1hp as a rough guide for your injectors, so that should take care of that question.

HY/HX35's use a T3 flange. HX40's come in both T3 and T4 flavours. HX50 on up use a proprietary Holset flange slightly bigger than a T4, or larger.

As far as what's needed to be changed, are you looking for a complete list of mods you are going to need to install a big single turbo? You can search for that on your own. I can't tell you how many complete lists I have made.

[MrLith]

im running an rb25 and i would love to hit the 500 hp mark, but being a drift car, decent spool time is more important to me im really torn between the hx35 and the hx40 holset turbos.

also, it would be great to get some sort of a grid going with motor - turbo size - minimum upgrades required to run - and estimated hp range. if some one can get me the info id be glad to arrange it all.

Have you noticed no one seems to post dyno plots of the Holset turbos? I have been waiting for ages to see some solid proof of the claims people make of their spool etc. I have had a long standing interest in them, but given I have seen anything solid enough (other than people using then banging their drum, which is what everyone does for their own choice...) to be sure they are really all that. The fact that there are supposedly heaps of RBs running them with great success, but I haven't seen a dyno plot as proof yet makes me suspicious...

I am running a .82 Garrett GT3076R on my stock RB25 on the stock manifold and am making 1.1bar by around 3500rpm and the thing is capable of near 500hp @ wheels if one were to lean on it, they make for awesome response and a wide solid power band... I tend to lean towards going with something proven.

[Cjmartz2k]

Have you noticed no one seems to post dyno plots of the Holset turbos? I have been waiting for ages to see some solid proof of the claims people make of their spool etc. I have had a long standing interest in them, but given I have seen anything solid enough (other than people using then banging their drum, which is what everyone does for their own choice...) to be sure they are really all that. The fact that there are supposedly heaps of RBs running them with great success, but I haven't seen a dyno plot as proof yet makes me suspicious...

I am running a .82 Garrett GT3076R on my stock RB25 on the stock manifold and am making 1.1bar by around 3500rpm and the thing is capable of near 500hp @ wheels if one were to lean on it, they make for awesome response and a wide solid power band... I tend to lean towards going with something proven.

Sorry, no dyno on this backwoods island, so these will have to do. I apologize about the quality. I'll endevor for better ones soon if you question the numbers I'm reading off the hand controller. Also, I found out why everything seemed a bit laggy and not as punchy in the vids and for the past month or so. Somehow my base fuel pressure got changed from 44psi down to 39 psi It's better now and makes a BIG difference. I woudln't be surprised if I can match those spool numbers lith

[Cjmartz2k]

Also, just thought of something Lith, are you still using the factory long runner 25 intake and VCT still working away? I don't

[Cjmartz2k]

Here are a bunch of results from DSM guys running 2.0L 4G63's. Apples to oranges as far as spool times, but you can see what kind of hp numbers holsets can make.

This guy runs 11 flats @ 128mph........



653awhp--I'm thinking this was a VERY friendly dyno, but still, it's a lot, albeit at 40psi



534 awhp--This guy does 11 flat at 139mph!!! (car must be stripped the f*** out)



This guy had a big boost leak and couldn't make more than 25psi--454awhp



All of those guys have trap speeds in 3000lb cars in the high 120's on up. I have to go to lunch now, but if you want more results, I'll browse through that thread some more when I get home tonight.


Modified by Cjmartz2k at 2:32 PM 8/20/2009

[MrLith]

Here are a bunch of results from DSM guys running 2.0L 4G63's. Apples to oranges as far as spool times, but you can see what kind of hp numbers holsets can make

Those aren't Skylines... but since you mention DSMs, here's what at one point was the fastest pump gas/no NOS DSM in the world - running FP 3052 (FP's GT3076R):http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nszA9Z4F0XE

10.11 @ 136mph. Link to run/car details:http://www.dsmtimes.org/details.php?ID=2370

Ironically the fastest pump gas EVO in the world is now running a turbo which is probably equivalent in size to an HX40, a Garrett ballbearing based Precision 62mm turbo - runs high 8 with full interior.
Modified by MrLith at 3:03 AM 8/20/2009

[Cjmartz2k]

Damn quick to be sure, and I'm not trying to argue Holsets are better than Garrett (although they are my preference). I was just showing you some dyno graphs and my spool times as requested. Holsets aren't running around near as much as ball bearing garretts are, and their are a LOT fewer people pushing the limits with them, so the there aren't any world record holders with them (yet ). Plus, I don't think anybody going for a world record is looking to find a cheap turbo.

-The dyno graphs I showed you are making GT35r kinda numbers

-You saw how it spooled on mine

-They are dirt cheap, rebuild-able for cheaper, and built like a tank

I think that shows their bang for the buck, which is the whole point to them. Any comments on how mine spooled BTW? O yeah, and this is Lithium from SAU, right? I assume so, but just making sure

[Cjmartz2k]

Almost forgot, I'm trapping 126-128mph on a regular basis on the Gtec with mine.

[toadx8u]

can anyone tell me what flange the hx50 and hx55 run for exhaust t4, t6, or something holset specific????

[Cjmartz2k]

Holset specific. I ordered the flange for my HX52 off ebay for $30. It's almost the same as a HX40 though. People have just drilled out the flange holes and made it work.

[toadx8u]

hmmmm...i guess i need to find one...i already contacted kyle at 6boost about makin me another manifold...i guess i could always get it t3 and use the adapter plate i see on ebay all the time...

[MrLith]

Almost forgot, I'm trapping 126-128mph on a regular basis on the Gtec with mine.

I don't really trust GTechs, I did a run with one and got a crap launch and still did 12.6 @ 124mph when my car was still only a low 13s/112mph car on a proper drag strip.

I understand what you are saying, and would like to think Holsets are that good - but its really hard when you have no tangible evidence for the type of car you have. As you say yourself, there are no results of Holsets which are competitive with the Garretts where it counts (strip) and I've still not seen a dyno plot or time slip for a car running an HX series on an RB

[toadx8u]

i agree with the whole not trusting the g-tech...it doesnt take in account for the error factors...

Lith i also run a GT3076R on my RB25 but am opening up to the holset market...what Cj speeks of is true about the holsets...you have to remember that these turbos are designed for a diesel engine that makes all its power in less then 3k rpm...the exhaust wheel design is years above the competition and because of this these turbos do spin up rediculously fast on a gas engine...even for being journal bearing...

oh and incase u didnt see in my street s14 i managed a 11.6 @117 with 1.5 60's on my 3076 with some 550s...and a base map on a power fc

ill be sure and post on here how the LARGE HX50 spools on the motor im building for my drag s14...but it will have to wait till next summer when i get home from iraq
Modified by toadx8u at 9:47 AM 8/21/2009

[Cjmartz2k]

Gtecs and the like have been proven to be accurate over and over again as long as they are mounted properly. They have thrown them in 8 seconds awd door slammers and 16 second jeeps and run them down the strip with the same results as the clocks down to 1 mph and .1 second. That's not to say you can't get some strange numbers if they aren't set up properly. I'm 100% certain my car is an easy 11 second car even out here on the garbage Oki roads. Also, take a look at the mph the guys in the dsm thread are getting. They have cars of the same weight as ours 3000-3200lb and are trapping high 120mph+. Mph vs weight = hp. Period. Doesn't matter that it's not a skyline or an RB. Notice I'm not mentioning e.t.'s since that wouldn't be a fair comparison (since they are awd).

I do like to see proof like you mention and I think that's it, but I will do my best over the next week to get some kind of comparison video to a car with a typical set up like a GT30 or something. Best I can do out here, sorry. My car is coming apart after next weekend and I'm getting the drivetrain ready to ship back to the states, so hopefully not to far down the road you guys can see what they will do in an s-chassis

BTW Toad8x, I think you mentioned doing an HX50 with a T3 flange adapter? I'm not so sure that would do that turbo justice performance wise. That thing is a monster with a big open exhaust housing, and the flange being T3 then opening up like that can't be good for performance. What size a/r is it?

[MrLith]

Gtecs and the like have been proven to be accurate over and over again as long as they are mounted properly. They have thrown them in 8 seconds awd door slammers and 16 second jeeps and run them down the strip with the same results as the clocks down to 1 mph and .1 second.

With all due respect, there isn't much to setting up a GTech - beyond it being calibrated (which the software does) and making sure the mounts have good purchase, there surely isn't much more to be done. Of course the marketing is going to say its accurate - though didn't Tesla themselves say that the GTech gives optimistic trap speeds when they released the GTech competitions?

Quote » I'm 100% certain my car is an easy 11 second car even out here on the garbage Oki roads. [/quote]One would hope so if you are running 22psi through a big turbo

Quote »Also, take a look at the mph the guys in the dsm thread are getting. They have cars of the same weight as ours 3000-3200lb and are trapping high 120mph+. Mph vs weight = hp. Period. [/quote]These guys have gone over 130mph on unmodified stock EVO turbos, they are mad and make turbo comparisons very hard to work with. As I said before, they have gone sub 9s in a full interior street car on pump gas (near 160mph trap speeds) with a turbo which is slightly laggier than an HX40

Quote »I do like to see proof like you mention and I think that's it, but I will do my best over the next week to get some kind of comparison video to a car with a typical set up like a GT30 or something. Best I can do out here, sorry.[/quote]I have compared mine with a guy running an HX40 (I think it is - only detail I am fuzzy on, and he is too as it was put together and given to him by a turbo expert without too much knowledge of his own) on a 1JZ Soarer and its difficult because mine is gone before he's even ready unless he has 5000rpm on him, true story.

I remember being told before we compared that his car spooled really well for the size turbo as well haha. Admittedly I believe his turbo was built with around 650hp in mind and mine is rated for more like 530hp but still..

[Cjmartz2k]

There are a number of things I would like to reply to in that post, but I'll stick to the crux of the discussion in this post. We'll save Gtec's for another day, so ignore my results for arguments sake.

You keep bringing up spool and saying holsets are laggy. What do you have to say about my videos?

The other thing I think you are saying is that they don't make make the power people claim from them? I said high 120mph trap speeds giving the low end to show what most people would get out of them running normal/sane levels of boost. Most of the results in that thread are in the 130mph's. If you want to compare stock turbine guys running water/meth on pump at 40psi, or GT35r's at 45psi+ on race gas , look again to the dyno graphs I posted. 653awhp on water/meth (and that is all wheel, not rwhp which saps a lot more parasitic drag on the dyno). Here's another one from the same guy making 685awhp @ 44psi on e85........



This is a 2.3L 4663 stroker just to be clear, and a dynojet, so I think the numbers are on the high side. The thing I found most striking about his setup is he went from a GT3076r to this HX40, and made 540hp with the old set up. That's a 110hp gain with just unbolting the GT3076r, and bolting on the HX40. The second 685awhp run I don't think it a fair comparison due to different fuel and boost.

So are you saying they are not making power, they don't spool well, or both?

[MrLith]

You keep bringing up spool and saying holsets are laggy. What do you have to say about my videos? The other thing I think you are saying is that they don't make make the power people claim from them?

No I didn't. I said a mate of mine has an HX40 (!?) 1JZ powered car which is quite a lot laggier than mine, and its the only Holset powered car I have had exposure to. I never said they don't make the power, what I am basically saying is it would be really nice to see something like an HX35/3540/40 dyno plot for an engine I am familiar with. Your video looks really good, definitely promising. I am not here because I want to prove you wrong, I want to be convinced they are worth looking into....

Quote »GT35r's at 45psi+ on race gas[/quote]8 second car is on straight pump (E85 mind), nothing else.

Quote »This is a 2.3L 4663 stroker just to be clear, and a dynojet, so I think the numbers are on the high side. The thing I found most striking about his setup is he went from a GT3076r to this HX40, and made 540hp with the old set up. That's a 110hp gain with just unbolting the GT3076r, and bolting on the HX40. The second 685awhp run I don't think it a fair comparison due to different fuel and boost.

So are you saying they are not making power, they don't spool well, or both?[/quote]I never said either, actually. I have just never seen a nice "steady" result - one which I feel comfortable in taking a gamble on. For example, the HX40 and GT3076R comparison you posted blatently looks like the ratio the two runs are done with is different - whether its wheel size or a different diff or gearbox. Its not different gear different, but definitely sufficient to make the impression of spool comparable.

Look at it analytically, the dyno run starts at the same power level 4mph earlier than the GT30R one and finishes 10mph earlier - its like the same curve but compressed so the scale is different.

[Cjmartz2k]

No I didn't. I said a mate of mine has an HX40 (!?) 1JZ powered car which is quite a lot laggier than mine, and its the only Holset powered car I have had exposure to. I never said they don't make the power, what I am basically saying is it would be really nice to see something like an HX35/3540/40 dyno plot for an engine I am familiar with. Your video looks really good, definitely promising. I am not here because I want to prove you wrong, I want to be convinced they are worth looking into....

Sorry if I come off to argumentative. I don't intend it, I just get a little carried away sometimes I totally understand about wanting to see a dyno on an RB. Hopefully CEF11 on SAU will come through soon. Like I said, Okinawa sucks for anything more technologically advanced than a toaster oven, so no dyno here.

You've got my interest peaked about your friend's car though. Can you ask him what all he's got next time you see him?

I never said either, actually. I have just never seen a nice "steady" result - one which I feel comfortable in taking a gamble on. For example, the HX40 and GT3076R comparison you posted blatently looks like the ratio the two runs are done with is different - whether its wheel size or a different diff or gearbox. Its not different gear different, but definitely sufficient to make the impression of spool comparable.

Look at it analytically, the dyno run starts at the same power level 4mph earlier than the GT30R one and finishes 10mph earlier - its like the same curve but compressed so the scale is different.

I see what your saying, but it just looks to me like he finished the run a little earlier because he had already made peak torque. As far as the begining, every dyno run I've done I haven't paid real close attention to where I start. I will be the first to admit though, my dyno experience is fairly limited, so I won't argue something didn't change gear ratio wise. I can always PM him and ask though.

One other thing, I didn't post that dyno graph up because it was a comparison to his old GT30. I didn't even notice it was on there until I saw the later post about him making 680 something and clicked on his build thread. I really don't think it's fair to compare a HX40 to a GT30r. They are in two different leagues. Now the HX35 would be much better to compare to your turbo hp and spool wise. Look at that results thread I post. Most of those guys are trapping high 120's and low 130's with those and amazing spool.

Damn I wish we had a dyno here

[MrLith]

Sorry if I come off to argumentative. I don't intend it, I just get a little carried away sometimes One other thing, I didn't post that dyno graph up because it was a comparison to his old GT30. I didn't even notice it was on there until I saw the later post about him making 680 something and clicked on his build thread. I really don't think it's fair to compare a HX40 to a GT30r. They are in two different leagues. Now the HX35 would be much better to compare to your turbo hp and spool wise. Look at that results thread I post. Most of those guys are trapping high 120's and low 130's with those and amazing spool.

Damn I wish we had a dyno here

All good - I like to question to get answers, and sometimes a bit of debate is the best way of getting out the best info... definitely no harm done and so long as you know where I am coming from Its very frustrating not having as many of these around to see what they are like.

Yeah HX35 and GT3076R are very much an equivalent as far as I am concerned, I got VERY close to buying an HX35 before I got my GT30R - I have been talking about and researching Holsets for over 5 years now. The decider between the HX35 and the GT3076R for me ended up being that the GT30R was more compact and there admittedly was a bit of the fact that HKS GT3037s were a bit of a hero turbo when I first really getting into Skylines and its kinda neat to get to own what is basically one of them

I will try and find out more about my mates Soarer, I know its a 1JZ with a T3 flange/Garrett turbine housing on it and from memory it was making around 400whp on 22psi and had full boost in the 4000-4500rpm range on the dyno.

PS. I am running a G1 Link ECU which doesn't drive VCT

[bmart]

My brother ran 428hp at 17psi with 91 pump gas and 440cc injectors on his hx35 1jz this summer. His turbo starts making boost around 3800rpm and is at full boost by 4200rpm. I might be able to get you his dyno chart if you want it.

[MrLith]

My brother ran 428hp at 17psi with 91 pump gas and 440cc injectors on his hx35 1jz this summer. His turbo starts making boost around 3800rpm and is at full boost by 4200rpm. I might be able to get you his dyno chart if you want it.

A dyno plot would be awesome if its a possibility They are a good equivalent of a GT3076R, which I know I can get 1.2bar before 3700rpm with.

[Cjmartz2k]

Hey Lith, is your GT30 twin scroll or single? It seems like I see some really slow spool figures every now and again, and I'm wondering if it's because people are putting dual scroll turbos (all HX series holsets) on non-split pulse manifolds. For example, I'm getting better spool figures than the above 1J mentioned with a bigger turbo and a pretty large exhaust housing, but I'm dual scroll with a split pulse mani and twin gates.

[toadx8u]

just to add fuel to the fire

http://turbobyholset.com/forum...sheet/