HELP!! plume of black smoke runs on 2 Cylinders

[Jam-Dodge]

Hi

my names jamie and i live in the UK this is my 1st time on the forum ( on any forum infact )i've always admired the spirit of the nissan forums and its great to actually be part of the community, and hopefully get my problem with my car fixed

I've got nissan 200sx s13 CA18det engine car. I bought this car about 7mths ago and it did run fine when i viewd and got it, although there was slight black smoke coming out the exhaust and pretty high idle about 2700rpm which i did'nt think much of at the time.
So i bought the car and off we go on the highway at 80-90 mph for about 20mins, then i stop for a break on the hardsholder and notice the car missing once on idle. thinking nothing of it i carried on but this time the turbo was not giving much boost to my surprise. i carried on and noticed the fuel economy was terrible so pulled up and put in 7 litres of the super unleaded fuel. i carry on driving but the car is still missing like a spark missing or whatever and get off the next junction to myshock i notice a plume of black smoke following me. once off the highway car cuts off in traffic
i start it up and get home but with black smoke behind me no boost and car misfiring.
next day i start up the car very lowpower and thick black smoke!! i switched it off and left it for about a week as at the time i was working and had no time.
i started it again after about a week and another shock car is still misfiring, low power , but the smoke has now turned white . got under the car next day and noticed loads of oil comingout of the turbo elbow pipe and turbo itself.

So i thought i found the problem. replaced the turbo( the one on the car was gone as it had way too much shaft play oil leaking into the exhaust side turbine) with another brand new one new oil water and plugs.
put 10-15 litres of fuel in and tried firing it but still the same, but the smoke has dissapeared
I've pulled the spark plugs every time and each time they are covered in fuel and black sooty, which confirms its running rich.

What i've done
new full battery
checked compression good on all cylinders
checked spark on all plugs and coils - good
checked fuel pump and filter and delivery - good
checked for vacume leaks - could not find any
?????????????????????????????????????????????

i'm now assuming bad injectors as when i get the car started eventually after a very hard start it runs really rough engine shakes like its got no mounts low power boost barely goes past the 0 mark continuous backfiring and popping from exhaust
and it runs on two cylinders. i only found that out cause when car was idling i started to pull off each coil lead to determine this and cylinders 1 and 2 from front made not diff at all to engine speed once disconnected but when i done the same to the back two cyls car was going to dye out, so its a completer mystery.
i've driven the car like this about 200 meters then parked it back up cause would stall

i've taken off the fuel rail now and noticed one injector has a smaller nozzle (cyl 4) but that cyl runs along with cyl 3.
i'm going to check for the spray patter on the injectors and probably get new ones. ( would 270cc rb20 injectors be ok) i've got 3 370 and 1 i think is a 270
shown the car to my local mechanic who confirmed compression timing spark fuel all good on the car but says it is the Cam sensor. which i'm going to get aswell.

So thats he daunting story of my s13 i'm determined to get it going again and would really appreciate help please

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Wow, it really really sounds like you've got a massive boost leak after your MAF. I'd check ALL of your intercooler piping for loose fittings/hoses and/or holes before throwing money at a cam sensor.

Welcome to NICO!

[Jam-Dodge]

Wow, it really really sounds like you've got a massive boost leak after your MAF. I'd check ALL of your intercooler piping for loose fittings/hoses and/or holes before throwing money at a cam sensor.

Welcome to NICO!

thankyou for replying papsmurf

I've checked all the intercooler pipes today all good. i've already replaced the air maf sensor although 1 of the two bars in the sensor was quite dirty but it came off a running car

i've managed to take off the injectors and done a flow test all seem to be doing good

anymore advice truly appreciated thx

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Post a picture of your setup. I might have some ideas for you to try and see if they improve the situation.

[Jam-Dodge]

Post a picture of your setup. I might have some ideas for you to try and see if they improve the situation.

well, i'm quite new to all this and have'nt got a clue about "set up" dont know what you mean?

shall i post a pic of the ecu, engine bay inje? errrm?? please let me know will do asap

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Engine bay

[Jam-Dodge]

Engine bay

i'm having a prob loading pics of the engine bay but will get em on soon as!

in the meantime i've been working on the car and installed a new crank sensor along with rb20de 270cc injectors, fired up the car and nothing so i told my bro to crank it whilst i fiddled with the throttle in the bay. now after a few turns of the throttle pin i managed to start it ( good engine power coming) but only in that fixed 200rpm when i went up or down on throttle car would cut out as if its run out of fuel. ( and that was with the maf sensor disconnected) when the maf is connected up no matter how much i fiddled with the throttle it would'nt start

so when i did get it to start its with the maf off. hold the revs in fixed pos cant increase the revs up or down - strange.
someones said to me that it could be the throttle sens or ecu what would you say about that papasmurf? thx

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Without the MAF connected the ECU is in limp mode and limits you to a set RPM. Some vehicles its ~3000 rpm, some its lower. That's actually one of the things I was going to have you try. Can you get your hands on another MAF?

[Jam-Dodge]

Without the MAF connected the ECU is in limp mode and limits you to a set RPM. Some vehicles its ~3000 rpm, some its lower. That's actually one of the things I was going to have you try. Can you get your hands on another MAF?

i've got another one but 1 of the pins is covered in oil same with the one i've got on, i'll try and clean it with some cleaner or try and get a better one

do you reckon i've got a problem with the ecu? but the red and green light does come on and when i diagnose for a code i only get 55 which is that ecu cant find any code or all good.

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Could be. I'd try hitting the MAF with some MAF cleaner first and/or swapping it out. That would be a lot cheaper than swapping out the ECU (unless you've got another one of those). Its pretty rare that a Nissan ECU goes bad.

[Jam-Dodge]

ok i'll start with the maf cleaning hoping it'll sort it out, do i need special maf cleaner or would carb cleaner do?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I'd use MAF cleaner. Carb cleaner usually leaves more of a film.

[Jam-Dodge]

well. i've cleaned up the maf but still the same whilst connected car will just crank over and disconnected car fires up but in limp mode. and dies out in under a minute.
checked ecu again for codes and nothing. looks like its defo a sensor problem maybe??

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Did you try the other MAF too?

[Jam-Dodge]

yea tried the other one and the same dont know where to go with this one!

[PapaSmurf2k3]

I still haven't seen your setup, but you can try inducing an air leak after your MAF (so you end up sucking in unmetered air). This will lean everything out and if it runs better, you know that could be your problem. Have you checked fuel pressure?

[Jam-Dodge]

ok, i'll give that a go in the morning, i have'nt checked the fuel pressure cause i've not got a fuel pressure checker but was told by the mechanic that it was ok. i've also spoken to that mechanic again and he's told me that the ecu is fine no other problem but get a better newer maf sensor as the system does'nt know how much fuel to send and hence cuts out- Hmmm does'nt make much sense to me but i'll try the lean process first!
still having trouble loading pics on this site wont let me attach em will get done soon as

[PapaSmurf2k3]

how-to-post-pictures-using-photobucket-t521110.html

The ECU has a rev limiter with no MAF hooked up.

[Dattebayo]

I noticed that you said you had a 270 injector in your engine earlier...
It should be known that running with a mixed pairing of 270 and 370 injectors will not work very well.
100cc is a big difference, and the 270 injector wouldn't be opening enough to really get the car to run well. I would make sure that all your injectors are the same.

[Jam-Dodge]

Could'nt do anything to the car today heavy showers and hail every half hour jus managed to take off the air filter when the weather started to go electric again try again tomorrow hopefully
rev-limiter? is that the screw you turn to go into diagnostic mode? mine is turned down right to the left, i'll try and increase that too see if it makes a diff

i put on rb20de injectors to the fuel rail, for which i had to force the connectors on cause they had a different groove when researched i found out the rb20 are 270cc. when checked the nozzles look exacty the same, but i've now replaced the injectors to the orignal 370 stock ones, but one of them is smaller than the other 3 clearlly seen by the nozzle

another thing i've now remembered is the air breather pipe i think going from the pcv valve to the air regulator( by the water pumpp) was just one piece( going from pcv to the reg. some s13's have 2 pipes connected which has a T junction in the middle for a third pipe which goes to the top cam cover just ontop of the turbo. before i started work on the engine i took the single pipe off and got another 3 piece pipe and left that on till now.
could it be that now i'm getting a vac leak or something cause the third pipe is going to the cam cover ontop of the turbo, i'm gonna try reconnecting the 1 piece pipe so to see if it solves he prob

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Yeah, you desperately need to post pictures of your engine bay, and definitely get all your injectors the same.

[Jam-Dodge]

right, iv been at it today despite the weather,
the injectors are all the same now as they were when i took em off
i cleaned the mafs again and really done it well this time. so i put on the maf back on and started it up, to my shock car started up and went on for about a min, i tried to rev it and it was about to die again.....??? so i left it for a bit, (although this time the car was blowing greyish whitish smoke.
then like it says in the manual of the s13 200sx

" when cars started turn screw on ecu fully right and go into diagnostic mode 5 to find any fault detected by the ecu"

I turned the screw fully right ......... car died out OMG

why would the car stall on accelaration?
this leaves me to believe that the ecu might have messed up setting or whatever but also that i mighthave a vac leak somewhere which i cant find. where could the vac leak be ??

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO ATTACH PICS ON THIS SITE PLS

[Jam-Dodge]

figured out, below is a picture of the engine bay of the car

[Ozzie]

CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO ATTACH PICS ON THIS SITE PLS

Click this link to another thread here....
how-to-post-pictures-using-photobucket-t521110.html
Which will show you, step by step how to do it.

Now....
Your first post leads me to believe that your O2 sensor might be dead.
Running rich (thick black smoke) will foul the plugs, which will then cause misfires.
Did the idle bounce between 1500rpm and 2500 rpm once it was warm?
If so, this makes me think that the O2 sensor is definitely dead.
(Another indicator was that the fuel economy was bad)

Also, ALL your injectors must be the same size, as Dattebayo mentioned earlier in this thread.
The computer can't figure out that you have 1 injector of a different size, and compensate for that.
Please get a matching set of injectors, clean/new plugs, and an O2 sensor installed before going any further.
Doing this may not solve all your problems, as I feel you are coming across more and more as you try to fix what you see.
The MAF situation seems to be sorted, so go with MATCHED SIZE injectors across the board, plugs, and an O2 sensor.

Report back after you have done these things, and we'll try to track down any other issues that may be left over.

Oh yeah, to Nico.

[Gold Digger]

OP...I fixed your post to make the picture show up. Since you are using ImageShack, lemme explain the best way to post pictures.

When you get into your images on ImageShack, where they are all thumbnails, there are six little icons to the immediate right of the thumbnail.

There are two ways to do this.

1. Click on the "i" icon that is at the top of the six.
In the pop-up window, there will be a large box with the word "forums" next to it. Just highlight everything in between the image ([IMG]) tags by clicking and dragging. Then hit CTRL+C to copy the text.

Then come into the text editor here on NICO where you type your message, and press CTRL+V and it will paste your code right then. Then click the preview button (only in "Full Editor" mode) and see if your pic shows up. If it doesn't, then you may have done something wrong.
Go back and check to make sure you didn't miss anything in the code.

2. Click the icon (second from the top) directly under the "i" icon next to your thumbnail. It will bring up another tab (if you have tabbed browser capability) with you picture being on the left side.
Right click on the full picture and select "Copy image URL".
Come back to the text editor, CTRL+V to get it on the page. Then highlight that whole URL and click the IMG box just above the text field.
Click preview and check.


That should get ya done.

[Jam-Dodge]

OK thanks to ozzie and goldigger for the hilpto attach pix i'm taking some more and will put on the site.

right, i've cleaned all the plugs on the car and made sure all injectors are the same accross, but when i checked for the o2 sensor on the car it didnt have one only a plug on top of the elbow turbo pipe, am i looking in the correct place?? cause it only had a 17 18 inch bolt to cover it.
i've started the car up and it just dies if any throttle is open. hmm

i've looked under the intake mani and there seems t be a sensor with 2 wires on it any one know what that is?? as the o2 sensor would've been on the turbo elbow pipe!? if i'm not wrong

and can anyone explain why the car would just die like as if its just ran out of fuel.

oh one more thing when i started work on the car the vacume pipe was split and off the fpr, so i've now connected it back up. could it mean that the fpr has gone bad, stuck or something cause i was going 28-90mph before it started misfiring and whatnot? thx

[Ozzie]

The O2 sensor will be somewhere on the exhaust.
Typically it will be on the dump pipe, but some cars have the O2 sensor further downstream on the exhaust somewhere.
If the hole in the dump pipe has been plugged, then it seems that the O2 sensor has been deleted!!
Can you find an empty plug somewhere near the dump pipe? I think it should be a grey/green oval shaped socket to suit this.


Hopefully, someone from the CA section can chime in and give some advice here.

[mdb4879]

Idk how much of a difference the O2 sensor makes, as I've unplugged them on other cars and it made no difference, but it could be an issue (I figure without it the ECU runs based entirely on the info it gets from the MAF and the maps it knows and just can't compensate for a rich or lean mixture and assumes it's right, but idk for sure. That's just my own thought). Also, as everyone has told you, all the injectors must be the same, but furthermore, they must all be 370's. The ECU is programmed for 370's and if you use 270's it will still think they're 370's and open the injector for the same amount of time as it normally would, but since the injector is smaller it won't flow as much fuel. Does that make sense? It's the same reason some sort of piggyback or standalone has to be used to use larger injectors.

Do you have another ignitor laying around? I'd try replacing that. I've never had it happen to me, but they're suppose to be bad for going out, and my stepdad told me a long time ago that back when he worked at a Nissan dealer they'd get the Pulsars in (the ignotors are basically the same) and they'd only be running on 2 cylinders. Somehow the ignitor has the ability to have 2 cylinders crap out as a pair. Also, you may have some bad coil packs (they tend to crap out as well). You can test which it is by taking the packs from the 2 dead cylinders and swapping them with the 2 good cylinders. Then start unplugging the coil packs with the motor running as you did before and see if the dead cylinders moved. If they moved then the coil packs are bad. If they stayed in the same place then I would think the ignitor s**t itself. The CAS could also cause the same issue as the ignitor, but you said you already replaced it so let's rule that one out.

This is what the ignitor will look like:



It'll have a harness connecting it to the coil packs.

[Jam-Dodge]

right, quick update checked the ignitor and the plugs for spark thats all good,

i can get the car to start now with this new crank sensor and maf all connected up but!!! it will idle at around 2k any more throttle car will shut down. and it shuts down anyway within a min

thats with the same size injectors all round.

car def does'nt have a o2 sens or even a plug anywhere?
i've tried to pull a code from the ecu but nothing, in the s13 manual it says that in mode 4/5 when the accelartor is pressed the red led will light up and then go off when i try to do that both led's stay on no change.

its either a duff crank sensor i've bought or the ecu first i'm now gonna get this ecu checked cause it def has been fiddled with by the owner/s before me ( all the plastics around the ecu were off and ecu dangling on 1 nut


The problem: accelarate or try to car will stall / adjust the ecu idle screw whilst car started car stalls, constantly on around 2k revs then stalls unable to start.

no engine flooding good spark,

[PapaSmurf2k3]

Sounds like you are turning the screw and leaving it there for self diagnosis. I'm almost certain you turn it for a short period of time, then turn it back.

1991-1994-240sx-reading-computer-ecu-codes-t253912.html