Help Me Make My CA18 Fast!

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

My ca18det is slow. I don't know why, but that's what you guys are for! It's nothing wild, just s15 ball bearing t28 on a rebuilt engine with 1mm over forged pistons, FMIC, Apex'i catback exhaust and ISIS downpipe with a home-made test pipe (which I believe one of the flanges was only like 2.5 inches since that's all we had) and the stock elbow, stock cams, stock computer, welded diff, no boost controller (going to borrow a manual boost controller to see if that helps) so I'm running at 10 pounds off the wastegate. No codes being thrown by the ECU.

It won't drift 2nd gear in the dry, which seems ridiculous to me. It honestly feels like a twincam KA. If this is just the way it is, then I gotta say, I'm disappointed. I'm going to run a boost-leak test again today to see if anything new has popped up.

I tried unplugging the wastegate line just to see if it felt quicker (to know if it's just low boost keeping me slow at 10 psi), and it seemed like the turbo started spooling A LOT earlier, but immediately as it started to boost, it cut out. I'm guessing this is MAF or fuel cut since I'm running stock injectors and MAF?

Am I missing anything here? Perhaps the t28 is out of its efficiency at only 10 psi, and it's making less power and spooling later than a t25 would at 10 psi?? All I know is, I've got a bunch of SR friends that are a hell of a lot faster, and they're just running stock t25's on stock 7 pounds with no rebuilds or aftermarket internals at all. I knew an SR20 would make a bit more power, but I figured just having the t28 alone would have made up that difference.

Any help or insight would be greatly appreciated!!

And for the record, I stopped by Tim's house the other day and he drove the car and agreed that it's... slow.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, my ignition timing was at 17* BTDC, but I set it to 10* BTDC last night and it made no difference.


User avatar
mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

Post

Hey Casey, fancy seeing you here, lol. Ok, so first off, are you sure you're at 10psi? I remember you had that Harbor Freight boost gauge and it may not be accurate. Reason I ask is I have some cheap Glowshift gauges in my Pulsar and I use to think I was running 10psi until one day with the car off I realized the needle sat about 2psi below zero. So I'm actually running around 12psi. Idk if there's really much difference here, but you saw my exhaust and it's pretty free-flowing (turbo elbow then a 2in. long pipe) compared to yours I would think (at this power level, though, there may not be much difference for reall). Plus, my wastegate actuator is probably really worn so even without a boost controller I'm running quite a bit more than the stock 7psi. You may have the opposite going on. A (possibly) more restrictive exhaust and a much fresher turbo and actuator. So you may be running 7psi, but idk. that's just a guess.

Also, idk if it makes much difference for drift speed, but your car still has full interior. So it should weigh, what, 2700lbs? My car is completely gutted, not even a dash, and weighs 2300lbs. That being said, with the (possible) power and weight differences between your car and mine, including my really low gearing (75mph in 5th = just over 4k rpm), I'm only fast enough to stay even with a stock G35 coupe up till a little over 100mph. So I can only imagine your car couldn't be too fast (if it's only running 7psi rather than the 10psi your gauge reads.

I doubt the S15 BB turbo is out of it's efficiency range, at least not by much. And it should spool fairly quick. My stock t25 makes full boost at 2800rpm. I'm guessing yours can make it at a few hundred more than that. 10psi is 10psi, no matter the turbo. a GT30 can make more power at 10psi than my T25 because it can flow more, but it won't make more torque in the mid range unless mine is out of it's efficiency range and is making the air hotter. All turbos will make the same power at the same boost on the same motor if the intake temp is the same and the motor isn't choking out the turbo. If the MAP is 10psi at 7200rpm with a T28, it's making the same power as the T3, provided all other variables are the same. The reason they say you only get 10whp more from 14psi vs. 10psi on the stock T25 is because in the top end (where hp is made) you aren't really getting 14psi. The compressor is choking out and making less boost and the air is hotter (less dense). There will be far more midrange torque, but about the same top end power. So in other words your T28 will pull just as hard in the mid range as the T25 if they're making the same boost, and even harder in the top where the T25 chokes. (Sorry, I've always wanted to give that explanation about why and when a larger turbo makes more power, but sometimes the same power. It's like a hose on an air compressor. No matter how big the tank (turbo) is, only so much air can be forced through the hose (motor) until a bigger hose (via cams, port work, displacement) is installed)

If you had boost leaks I think your car would run like crap under boost. When I first got mine running I had a few boost leaks to take care of and until then it'd run terrible under boost. This was because the MAF had already metered the air, but it wasn't reaching the motor. The gas was being poured in like the air was there, though, causing it to run REALLY rich. I too tried disconnecting my wastegate line once and it did the same as yours. Built boost then cut out at 14psi.

Now on to making more power. That turbo should be pretty well suited to your application. It'll spool quick and should make enough power for you needs (I'm guessing around 280-300 crank). The MAF and injectors will max out long before that, though. Most of the steps for more power have already been done it seems. So all you need now is more fuel. A larger MAF (I would think an RB or a Z32 should do the trick) and larger injectors (DSM 450s if you're on the cheap) and some way to tune it. I know most on here are against SAFC, as am I, but it's an option. You can ask Kyle what he thinks of it. I know he used it back when he had his SR T25 on. I don't know much of what's out there, but I'm planning on Nistune for mine when I get around to it. You'll also need a bigger fuel pump and a FPR (if you don't already have them that is).

I think that's basically it. If anyone feels my explanation about the bigger turbo thing is inaccurate, please say so as I may be wrong. That's just how I've always understood it.

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

Haha hey Matt.

I hope you're right about that cheap boost gauge. I'll have to throw another one on there and see if anything's different.

As far as the weight, I know my s13 is a bit on the heavy side, but it's a base model and either way I figure it should still be able to slide 2nd gear. The last TractionOptional event I did in was with a twincam KA. It was a healthy engine that wasn't rebuilt or especially clean, but even with a passenger, I could slide 2nd gear no problem. Pics related.

Image
Image

I think you're spooling much sooner than I am. Mine never feels like it's really kicking in at a definite rpm, it just feels kinda gradual since it's not going fast at all anyway. You'll have to drive my car next time I see you and you'll know what I mean. I don't fully comprehend the ins and outs of turbo selection, but I do know that everyone raves about the s15 t28 and I'm just not seeing why -- especially since it's supposed to not choke up high, whereas mine feels like it is. It's unreal how similar to a KA my car feels. It chirps second gear just like a KA, and feels like it chokes up high like a KA.

As for making more power, I already have a Maxima MAF (n60) and a set of Toyota 7MGTE 440cc injectors that I'm hoping to put on in the near future. I'd like to have Nistune, but if it's going to be $400 for the setup + ~$400 for tuning + $200 for a wideband o2 sensor, then to hell with it. I'll just get a $200 Emance tune, or JWT, or something else. Either way, it seems like my stock MAF and injectors will limit me to 14 psi, whereas spending all that money for a tune would only free me up to run 18 pounds (the upper limit of what a t28 should be run), so it'd be hard to dump a grand into 4 extra pounds.

I've only seen bad things with the AFC route, including annoying sputters and ruined engines, so I'm steering clear of that whole ball of wax.

I appreciate the brainstorm!

1200ute
Posts: 39
Joined: Thu May 06, 2010 1:44 am
Car: Datsun 1200

Post

It sounds like you need to get it tuned. The $1,000 or so for nistune and tuning isn't just going to allow you to run more boost, it will allow your engine to make the most of all of your mods while still being safe. I also would probably only run an S15 bb to about 15 psi but at that level you should be getting around 180rwkw if not a bit more. From what you have explained above you are probably only making around 110rwkw at the moment.

User avatar
mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

Post

With that turbo you'll be limited to about 10psi on the stock fuel system. That turbo won't be choked out by your motor and will make power as high as the cams will, so to about 7k. It'll flow a healthy amount of air and the stock fuel system won't take much past 10psi with it. 12psi might be achievable, but that's really pushing it. 10psi to be safe.

People like the S15 BB because it's ball bearing and spools fairly quick because of it, compared to an equally sized journal bearing turbo. My boost does as you said, builds up. I just meant I can hit full boost by 2800 rpm. If I'm going slow in 3rd and floor it it'll start to build boost by 2400 and will hit full boost by 2800, but that's kinda pushing it. In lower gears boost doesn't come on notably quick until about 3k. I figure yours is the same way, but shift the rpms up about 4 or 600rpm. I doubt it needs a tune. In the mid range at the very least it should make power like mine and I have a stock tune. As I stated before, that turbo at 4k rpm (as an example) will only flow just as much air as mine does, so the stock tune should do just fine on stock boost. Maybe a little more power can be had from a tune, even more as you apply more boost, but I doubt that's the problem. You'll need less fuel in the low end where I would make boost and you don't, and more fuel in the top end where I would choke out and you'll still be flowing air, but the MAF allows you to compensate for that fairly well and I don't think that's THE problem.

With a good tune I think you could do 18psi on that turbo. That should put down close to 300hp (crank), which would be enough to make you content I would think. 15psi would still make plenty of power, though, and safer too (idk how that turbo would be at 18psi. could be fine or a little much. I'm not sure but I think it's doable).

Another thing I thought of was when I got mine running it also had blown turbo flange gasket and the turbo wasn't fully seated. So as soon as I hit the gas and the exhaust manifold started to build back pressure it'd all go out between the turbo and the manifold, kind of acting like a waste gate. I'd only get 1-2psi and it'd start to cut out and sputter like I had a massive boost leak. Yours may not be that bad, but it may be leaking there a bit. Are you sure the nuts are all tight that hold the turbo on? I'm sure you tightened them when putting the motor together, but the nuts can come loose if you don't have the little tabs that go on to keep them from backing out.

I also may not fully understand just how the car is behaving, as you said. Do you go to Staples much on Saturdays? I could meet you there some Saturday or just where ever whenever. Can I text that number you gave me?

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

I forgot to mention that I already have a Walbro 255 fuel pump and a Nismo fuel pressure regulator with a fuel pressure gauge. It hovers between 35 and 40 psi.

It smells like it's running rich, which is weird since it's a stock ECU running the stock tune.

Could I have bad injectors?

I'm really considering selling this car/engine and going back to a KA or maybe SR. None of the ones around here seem to be plagued like mine.

User avatar
mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

Post

I may be wrong on this since mine has it's share of problems, too, but mine also smells like it's running rich so maybe it isn't that uncommon? Idk, I've always figured it's because it's a turbo car so it's going to run rich, especially on the stock tune (like 11.5-12:1 AFR under boost I think, maybe a little lower). Mine evens smells a bit rich at idle as well. But you've been around turbo cars more than I have so it may be an abnormality.

Idk how well it really works, but you could try running some fuel injector cleaner through your gas. They could be sticking open a bit, but I'm not sure at this point.

KA? SR? THAT'S BLASPHEMY!!! We need all the people in the Huntsville CA crowd we can get. But if you must sell your car let me know and I'll see if I'm in a position to buy it.

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 17366
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

The car is fine. Your expectations are what's wrong.

First off, going from a KA to a CA, the first thing you have to realize is that the CA won't do ANYTHING, and I mean ANYTHING below 3K. And even then, it's really not able to drift worth a damn till you're above 4K. You need to rev the the CA to make power. I would be willing to bet you could drift a CA20E powered S13 with the right driver. Torque can make anybody look like the drift king. It's easy to drift a KA compared to a CA.

Secondly, that turbo is a terrible match for the boost levels you're running. If you don't have the funds to afford upgrading the fuel, mafs, and ecu, then you need to go to a SR T25. It'll make more power, sooner. Which will make it behave more like the KA you're comparing it too. It still will need revved though as a CA will never make the low end power a KA does.

That being said, with the upgrades above, you shouldn't have any issue getting to 300hp (flywheel) and with a little bit of altered driving style (turn in, clutch kick at 4K +, counter-steer, enjoy), easily convert tires into smoke.

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

I appreciate the insight, Float, but I still think you aren't getting how slow my CA really is. I know KA's are kinda torquey (155 lb-ft for an N/A 4 cylinder) but surely my ca18 SHOULD be should be making more than that right now at wastegate on this t28. It
should, I just think it's not.

Not to mention, Kyle (s13drifter88) slid his CA18 in 2nd and even a bit of 3rd with no rebuild, stock internals, straight off the boat from Nippon, with an SR t25 at 8 psi. Wtf.

I'll try again this weekend since I just stocked up on extra wheels and tires, but this isn't my first rodeo at drifting; I've been doing this for years, and it would seem to me that my current setup should at least spin 2nd gear.

User avatar
r34 gtr
Posts: 8909
Joined: Sun Dec 29, 2002 9:33 am
Car: 98 Nissan Frontier XE 4x4
95.5 Audi URS6 Avant 5spd
03 BMW 330i ZHP 6spd
89 Nissan 240SX base CA18DET
Location: Creepin' in your crawl space
Contact:

Post

Ryan, I drove the car and it does feel a little flat. We checked the timing, and it seemed pretty close to correct. Nothing that would have caused it to feel as flat as it did. Its also getting into boost late. It comes on boost at 4000, and when I was running the same turbo off the wg like he is, I was making boost 500rpm sooner. He even has a little more displacement.

I think we need to sort out your idle issue, and the rest should fall into place.

User avatar
mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

Post

I'd seriously check for an exhaust leak between the head and the turbo. If it's small you'll build enough boost to make the car run, but the turbo will spool late and you won't get as much boost as you should. It won't act like a boost leak if it's small because with a boost leak the metered air is escaping before the motor gets it. With an exhaust leak the turbo won't spool right and won't pull the air through the MAF in the first place, so the car will run just fine. My problem was that my leak was so big I'd only get 1-2psi and the ECU couldn't compensate for that much difference when it was expect 7-8psi, so it'd run like crap when it was suppose to be in boost. Yours sounds like it has a small leak so it'll still flow enough air for the motor to run right, but the turbo will be laggy and won't flow as much air as it should.

Also, idk what the gearing is like on the CA transmission, but at stock boost a CA will only make like 5lbs more torque than a KA, fresh for fresh motor that is. And as Float said, it'll be up higher. But the Exhaust leak I mentioned will also cause the turbo to choke out up high, making it feel more like a KA.

Oh, and check to make sure the wastegate isn't being propped open somehow. That's the same as an exhaust leak and if it's opened just a crack it'll make a world of difference. And is your wastegate signal coming from your intake plumbing or the manifold? (sorry, just had to ask)

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 17366
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

Are you on a stock exhaust manifold? If so, there IS something wrong exhaust related. There is no reason that T28 shouldn't be spooled by 3500rpm, if not sooner, unless you've got an exhaust leak/faulty WG. Didn't you mention un-hooking the WG and it felt better, but then cut out? If so, you may have bent the WG rod when you clocked the turbo. If so, it may have the WG propped open a bit and that would make it spool slowly and feel sluggish. Also, where are you referencing your boost pressure from, the turbo piping, or the intake manifold?

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

Float, yeah I'm on the stock exhaust manifold. I bought the turbo from Mrca18det here on Nico, so it was already clocked. It was super minty clean (still is actually) and it didn't have any crazy shaft play. The car doesn't smoke.

I don't hear any exhaust leaks from the turbo or the manifold, but I haven't looked for them either. I'll see if I can find one today.

And as for my wastegate vacuum line, it's run to the intake manifold (the nipple coming off the plenum pointing towards the passenger strut tower). The hose had a tear in it on the intake end, but I just cut it off and removed the torn section then reconnected it. Perhaps it's leaking? And maybe having the line run to the intake manifold is wrong as well?

User avatar
mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

Post

Yes, the wastegate pressure needs to come from the intake piping, not the plenum. If it comes from the plenum then when you close the throttle the wastegate will close and build excessive pressure in the plumbing. The BOV will do the biggest job of relieving that pressure, but every little bit helps. Plus you typically want the vacuum line to the wastegate as short as possible to quicken its response, but if anything it'd cause boost spikes rather than lag. If it'd were leaking it'd do that as well.

You also may not even be able to hear the exhaust leak, so just in case you don't, tighten all the nuts and bolts anyways. And check the wastegate anyways. No matter how sure you are it's fine, it doesn't hurt to check. It'll just rule out another possibility for certain.

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

Well I just got home from an amazing night of drifting, none of which included my ca18. I drifted my buddy's sr20 and absolutely loved it. I'd trade my weak CA for it without even thinking about it.

There has just gotta be something wrong with mine. That stock SR on 7 pounds slid like a champ. I looked for an exhaust leak and didn't see anything.

Would the exhaust leak make it smell rich? Would not having a cat make it smell rich??

I'm seriously beginning to believe all the hype behind SR's popularity over CA's. Something's gotta change soon or I'm going to bail hard on this engine.

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 17366
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

There is something wrong with yours. I'm quite sure of it. I've had countless people ride in my car who own SR's and be thoroughly impressed that a CA could pull as hard as an SR. And this was on the stock CA18 T25 running 15psi.

Yes, an exhaust leak could make it smell rich, so can not having a cat, so can having it be really rich. Do you have a AFR gauge? Even a narrow band would give you some idea of what's going on and is better than nothing. Plus they're cheap.

As I just said, there is something wrong. The CA makes power and will impress anyone who drives it. But if it's not running properly, it'll be slow, just like any other motor. Ditching the motor for an SR because it's running poorly is just ridiculous. I think you really need to focus your energy on checking out issues and fixing them instead of giving up. You had a guy who owned a CA powered S13 for YEARS tell you it's slow. That means YOUR motor has an issue, that can be fixed, not all CA's in general.

I can't tell you how many times I've suggested issues to people and they insisted that wasn't the problem and wouldn't check for them, and then when they finally did what I said to check in the first place, I was right. You REALLY need to actually get out your wrench and tighten everything up on the exhaust manifold. Does it have all new gaskets, or did you re-use something? I had the stock manifold to turbo gasket fail on my CA shortly after I installed it. I never could hear it. I actually thought my turbo took a dump, so I bought an SR T25 to install, and when I removed the CA T25 to install it, I found the gasket was bad. I couldn't believe it. I checked for an exhaust leak there a half dozen times, but it wouldn't do it at idle. It wasn't until I got under boost and there was some pressure in the manifold that it would leak, and there's no way to check for that at idle.

I also had another issue later when I re-installed the manifold that I re-used the head to manifold gaskets. They sealed up again for about a week, and then slowly started to leak. I had to pull it back off again and put the gaskets I was too impatient to wait to come in on order in. Huge pain in the arse. So much so that I ALWAYS replace the exhaust manifold gaskets when I pull anything apart.

Also, how are you running 10psi w/o a boost controller. If it's an S15 SR T28, that should only have a 7psi spring in it. I had one for about 2 years and I KNOW it doesn't have a 10psi spring in it. I can also tell you that at 7psi, it was a turd compared to the CA T25 at 7psi. And not just down low. I mean everywhere except for the very top end when the turbo was finally getting into it's efficiency range. But that was from like 6K-7K.

Another thing to check is the BOV. Are you SURE you have it adjusted properly? If it's not adjusted correctly, it will act like a boost leak under boost, and the car will run very rich and be way down on power. Even if you think it's adjusted properly, adjust it again. I actually like to adjust mine so that under about 5psi, it actually won't open and you get a little compressor surge. And if someone tells you this is bad, don't listen to them. There is a reason the CA18 didn't come with a recirculation valve. At low boost pressure's you don't need one. It doesn't cause any harm to the turbo.

I could go on, but I'm tired of typing, LOL.

User avatar
mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

Post

^^^
x2
float_6969 wrote:how are you running 10psi w/o a boost controller
I think he's going under the assumption that with a free-flowing exhaust and stock actuator it'll run 10psi. Except I think that only applies to the stock turbo because of it's wastegate and the age of the actuator so it shouldn't apply here. That, and the shotty boost gauge I recall he was using.

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

float_6969 wrote:There is something wrong with yours. I'm quite sure of it. I've had countless people ride in my car who own SR's and be thoroughly impressed that a CA could pull as hard as an SR. And this was on the stock CA18 T25 running 15psi.

Yes, an exhaust leak could make it smell rich, so can not having a cat, so can having it be really rich. Do you have a AFR gauge? Even a narrow band would give you some idea of what's going on and is better than nothing. Plus they're cheap.

As I just said, there is something wrong. The CA makes power and will impress anyone who drives it. But if it's not running properly, it'll be slow, just like any other motor. Ditching the motor for an SR because it's running poorly is just ridiculous. I think you really need to focus your energy on checking out issues and fixing them instead of giving up. You had a guy who owned a CA powered S13 for YEARS tell you it's slow. That means YOUR motor has an issue, that can be fixed, not all CA's in general.

I can't tell you how many times I've suggested issues to people and they insisted that wasn't the problem and wouldn't check for them, and then when they finally did what I said to check in the first place, I was right. You REALLY need to actually get out your wrench and tighten everything up on the exhaust manifold. Does it have all new gaskets, or did you re-use something? I had the stock manifold to turbo gasket fail on my CA shortly after I installed it. I never could hear it. I actually thought my turbo took a dump, so I bought an SR T25 to install, and when I removed the CA T25 to install it, I found the gasket was bad. I couldn't believe it. I checked for an exhaust leak there a half dozen times, but it wouldn't do it at idle. It wasn't until I got under boost and there was some pressure in the manifold that it would leak, and there's no way to check for that at idle.

I also had another issue later when I re-installed the manifold that I re-used the head to manifold gaskets. They sealed up again for about a week, and then slowly started to leak. I had to pull it back off again and put the gaskets I was too impatient to wait to come in on order in. Huge pain in the arse. So much so that I ALWAYS replace the exhaust manifold gaskets when I pull anything apart.

Also, how are you running 10psi w/o a boost controller. If it's an S15 SR T28, that should only have a 7psi spring in it. I had one for about 2 years and I KNOW it doesn't have a 10psi spring in it. I can also tell you that at 7psi, it was a turd compared to the CA T25 at 7psi. And not just down low. I mean everywhere except for the very top end when the turbo was finally getting into it's efficiency range. But that was from like 6K-7K.

Another thing to check is the BOV. Are you SURE you have it adjusted properly? If it's not adjusted correctly, it will act like a boost leak under boost, and the car will run very rich and be way down on power. Even if you think it's adjusted properly, adjust it again. I actually like to adjust mine so that under about 5psi, it actually won't open and you get a little compressor surge. And if someone tells you this is bad, don't listen to them. There is a reason the CA18 didn't come with a recirculation valve. At low boost pressure's you don't need one. It doesn't cause any harm to the turbo.

I could go on, but I'm tired of typing, LOL.
Thanks for the response Float. I genuinely appreciate any advice you've got to lend me.

I didn't reuse the old gaskets -- I bought a full gasket kit and used a Cometic gasket for the turbo-to-manifold. There is no black exhaust gunk anywhere around the turbo or the manifold, and my car will blow off if I rev it while parked, so it builds boost, but I can't feel anything like an exhaust leak.

As far as the 10 psi wastegate, I have come across a number of sources that stated S15's came factory at 10 psi. Granted, there's always the possibility that my boost gauge reads wrong, but who knows.

I've boost leak tested my CA, and the BOV never leaked, but then again I was letting the air go into the engine (I didn't cap off the piping at the throttle body) so the air was going through the engine if some valves are open with the engine at rest.

boost_boy
Posts: 7051
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:28 am
Car: B12 sentra w/built CA18DET, B12 sentra w/fully-built CA18DET, S13 coupe w/ CA18DET, S13 hatch w/CA18DET, 2002 maxima SE
Location: Miami, FL.
Contact:

Post

Sometimes they never stop being slow until you spend some real money. Sounds crazy, but I experienced this with one of my sentras as that darn thing would run up to 20psi of boost and only run like as if i was running 5 or 6psi. I would do all kind of stunts trying to figure this crap out upto and including taking the harness and ecu out of my known fast sentra and putting it the slow sentra. It ran a bit better, but nothing like how the other car ran, so I was convinced this thing was posessed because everything was spot on and healthy. I whacked on an SDS em-2f standalone and started cleaning-up everything and everybody. Would later go to the track, smoke a WRX from the start throught the 1320 and infamously smoke an S2000 with that video some kind of way being leaked onto youtube. Just got to man-up, accept the fact that things don't always work the way they were intended to and make those critical changes. just saying ;)

Liquid_Neon
Posts: 690
Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2003 6:06 pm
Car: 2000 Toyota Echo, 1988 Pulsar NX SE Turbo
Contact:

Post

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SxuYCXgrCNQ[/youtube]

That video, if i'm not mistaken :)

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

^^^LMAO bad launch man.

I'll have some free time tomorrow to retighten the bolts for my turbo manifold, but I looked again today and couldn't feel any exhaust leaking, but it's like, if the car was fast as soon as I rebuilt it, then became slow, I could understand it being an exhaust leak. But it's just been slow all the time. I'll retighten the manifold hardware anyway.

I'm also gonna do a more effective boost leak test with soapy water. Is it okay to have bubbles coming from anywhere? Even the turbo? And should I cap off the throttle body piping for the test or let the air try to pressurize into the head?

User avatar
float_6969
Moderator
Posts: 17366
Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2002 1:55 pm
Car: CA18DET swapped 1995 Nissan 240sx (too many mods to list)
2015 SV Leaf w/QC & Bose (daily)
Location: Topeka, Kansas
Contact:

Post

To do a really effective boost leak test, you need to actually pull the intake cam out so that all of the valves are closed and pressurize the turbo inlet as well. This will test every part of the system. If you do this, you should EASILY be able to build 10psi on the system and have it hold. If you're using the stock turbo intake, don't go past this as it's not designed for pressure and will probably fail.

If you won't want to do that, and just want to test the piping/intercooler, you need to remove the cold pipe from the TB and plug it. I would pressurize it to 20psi. It should be able to hold that, without dropping, all day long.

User avatar
mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

Post

Have you done a compression test recently? Low compression could cause it to be slow (although it'd have to be really low as my motor has 140psi across the board which is suppose to be on the low side, but it pulls very strong for what it is). I recall people saying you may wind up with low compression because you didn't hone the cylinders and re-ring the pistons when you pulled it back apart. I don't think it'd make that big of a difference considering how (near) perfect technology has made our parts and machining so things don't have as much space to wear in like they did forty years ago, but it'd be worth it to check the compression.

@ the video: I think that was a pretty good launch. You have to remember he's FWD and one-wheel drive. I've found with my car the easiest and fastest way to launch it is let the clutch out just hard enough to get the tires spinning (no need to drop it at 5k) let it wind up and slam it into second and let it spin until the car catches up. My car (along with that B12) is light enough that even with a one-wheel peel it'll still pull pretty hard. Even harder, it seems, than trying to control the wheel spin as the gear goes by too quick to keep power right at almost the tires breaking point. Plus, you have to think he was racing an S2000, which with a good driver can launch pretty f*****g hard. He stayed right on his quarter until his car caught up with his wheels, which is about what I'd expect (I did the same thing against a friend's G35 coupe)

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

Haha Matt I wasn't saying Dee had a bad launch, I was quoting the S2000 driver at the end of the video.

I just got done doing the soapy water boost leak test, and surprise surprise -- found some more leaks. My BOV flange needs to be welded to seal up one leak, but I believe I fixed some other leaks at the turbo inlet and AAC/AAV surfaces, both of which needed a good layer of RTV to seal up. Also, I had a BOV leak that would pop up at 10psi. I tightened down the spring a bunch and got it to where it wasn't opening and leaking pressure at 20 psi. It's a 2nd BOV that isn't even hooked up to a vacuum line at the moment. I had an extra BOV and flange and a friend just kinda put it on there to try and make a BOV sound combo. Oh and my Nismo FPR was blowing soap bubbles too. Not at the vacuum nipple, but on the middle of the diaphram body where the 2 halves join (the FPR twists there, and feels like it's supposed to do that.) Anybody else running a Nismo FPR??

I didn't get a chance to tighten up the bolts holding the turbo to the manifold, or the manifold-to-head nuts. I'll try to do that tomorrow. I'm REALLY hoping there's an exhaust leak there. It does smell like exhaust is in your face when you lean down near the turbo while it's running, but I can't feel any exhaust with my hands even when revving and blowing off. Like I said, those are new gaskets on that manifold, so maybe I can just get away with retightening them if they're leaking.

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

Well I just ran outside to feel around some more for any exhaust leak residue since my engine is cold now, and I'm pretty sure that it's all sealed up fine. I could feel all the way around the t2 flange, and nothing was dirty at all. 2 of those flange nuts have the retainer clip holding them from backing off, and the other 2 don't. I tried to tighten them but they're on there really tight already.

My head looks really clean from the top side all around the manifold, but I'll check the bottom side tomorrow.

Perhaps the exhaust smell under the hood is just from my doodoo test pipe leaking from riding hammered low stance errday?

User avatar
mdb4879
Posts: 419
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 9:36 am
Car: 1987 Nissan Pulsar SE (CA18DET)
1990 Nissan 240SX (KA24E)
1995 Acura Integra GSR

Post

cbh148 wrote:Haha Matt I wasn't saying Dee had a bad launch, I was quoting the S2000 driver at the end of the video.
Lol, ahh. Ok then. I didn't hear that part.

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

Okay, so I think I've got most all of my boost leaks fixed. I'll test it again soon to see if fixing those has made new ones pop up.

I hooked up my crappy boost gauge again, and now I'm thinking it is a 7 pound wastegate because it shoots right up to 7 psi at 3500 rpm's then slowly creeps up to 8 psi at 4500. My wastegate line is still run to the intake plenum. I need to figure out how/where to get a nipple mounted on my hotpipe.

It still doesn't feel any faster though, but I'm hoping to get a manual boost controller on soon. I'm also having a friend clean up and service my fuel injectors to make sure they're not causing issues, like the rich smell.

boost_boy
Posts: 7051
Joined: Thu Nov 14, 2002 7:28 am
Car: B12 sentra w/built CA18DET, B12 sentra w/fully-built CA18DET, S13 coupe w/ CA18DET, S13 hatch w/CA18DET, 2002 maxima SE
Location: Miami, FL.
Contact:

Post

I'll give you something crazy to try and you can decide if this is something you're willing to go through to figure out your slowness. You can remove the hose off the wastegate, plug the hose with a bolt or something suitable and take the car out for a test drive. If your car is really slow, this test will not help because now you are running on open boost which means that turbo is running wildly and pumping out everything it possibly has to offer. The key to doing this is to run it in bursts which means that when the car engine overboosts, your foot is the limiter. You can feather the throttle while driving to see how the engine responds to excessive boost and then you will have some idea as to where your performance stands. Don't be a fool and try to continue to drive around on open boost or you run the risk of destroying your pistons. Or better yet, you don't have to do this at all. Just trying to help you with your dilemmas.

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

I might have to try unplugging the wastegate again and feathering the throttle so it doesn't just hit MAF/fuel cut like it did last time.

MDB is headed over here now to help me poke around at it. I'll let you guys know how it goes.

User avatar
cbh148
Posts: 340
Joined: Tue Dec 01, 2009 6:53 am
Car: 2000 Civic Si, 1993 240sx Hatch CA18
Location: Huntsville, AL

Post

Welp, we compression tested it today...

170, 170, 60, 90

FML

I then added a cap of oil to cylinders 3 and 4, and the compression jumped up to about 190 on both.

'Bout time for that SR swap, or maybe just go back to a KA. Hell, they're making 418 whp with rb20's now with a ROM tune and a modified stock turbo. I sure as hell don't see CA's doing that any time soon.

Thanks again for the help Matt.


Return to “CA18DE / CA18DET Forum”