Help Me Make My CA18 Fast!

[float_6969]

Pulling the motor is about the same work as dropping the sub-frame, but with no risk to the oil squirters.

[mdb4879]

Alrighty then, that's what we'll tell him to do.

[mdb4879]

Well, we've got a real mess here. My stepdad pulled the motor this morning and got it taken apart:

Here is why we had low compression. the ring gaps were lined up on the number 3 and 4 cyclinders.

3


4


That's the least of our worries at this point. Here are some shots of the rod and main journals:









It may be kinda hard to see in the pictures, but they're really rough. Not like a "something got in there and scored them" rough, but a "the machine shop cut the crank, and never polished it" rough. You can tell that's what happened be cause usually if particles did it, then one end we look alright, but it'll get worse the further back into the motor you go, but they all look the same.

Here's a couple of some of the rod bearings:







The top bearings, the ones with load on them, are already worn down to the copper. There's no way these bearings should be worn out in only 2000 miles. The machine shop really d!ck up.

It seems all the reliefs on the side of the journals were cut, except for the number four journal. On one side it was only cut halfway around (on your left):





The main bearings look OK, probably because they don't have much load on them. But the journals are still rough.

The cylinders have some scores on them. They can be felt with your finger nail, but they don't seem too bad.







Another funky thing is the number one rod was installed backwards. The piston was right in the cylinder, but the rod was installed in the piston backwards. Notice the orientation of the lettering on the number one rod (left) compared to that of the number two rod (right). Luckily the rod cap wasn't on backwards:



The machine shop may not have offered to do anything before since there was nothing to be proven to them, but everything in this bottom end is on them and we have a record of their part in it. Now they may be a bit more cooperative.

I think when you go in to talk to them you should just lay a big a** hand gun on the counter before you start talking to them. And then tell them how much you miss being a professional arsonist.

I'm really liking this idea right now. Kyle, we may need your help...

Also, my stepdad thought there was an excessive amount of side play for the rods on the journals, or at least on one of them. He said he's put some loose motors together before, but that was really a lot of play. I'll ask him about how much play he thinks there was (he didn't measure it). Any comments?

[mdb4879]

Just asked my stepdad and he said he'd guess there was about 0.010" (he really wished he'd measured it) side play and the spec is 0.008" to 0.014" so we should be good there. He was pretty surprised to hear it called for that much clearance.

[cbh148]

[Liquid_Neon]

Wow, that shop did a pretty bad job. how can u let an engine go to someone like that. I don't know exactly how cutting bearings and cranks goes, but it seems a place that does that sorta crap as their job should get it right. I know that not everything can be done right, mistakes happen... but that seems like not just a mistake but the whole job was done wrong.
God if i screwed up that bad on a job a customer would get so much stuff free. we wouldn't be able to shuffle them off or tell them how we're gonna make them pay all over again for our screw ups.

Hope you can go shove all this in their faces and make it work for you!

[s13drifter88]

Im a bit shocked, so why are we looking at stock pistons in those pics? Casey had 84mm supertechs. I = Confused

[mdb4879]

I'm kinda shocked now, too. I've never dealt with R&R, but my stepdad says everyone he's talked to swears up and down by them. I wasn't too sure about the pistons, either. I thought Supertechs were coated so I was a bit surprised when we pulled them out, but I didn't think too much of it. I doubt those are 84mm OEM. Do the OEMs have wrist pin cir clips?

[cbh148]

Kyle, they're the SuperTechs. They're just dirty in the pics, and none of the pics show the top face really good.

[nickhebert]

if you need a need crank, I have one the was just polished from a machine shop and I will let it go cheap for you since you got screw over bad by this shop. Just pm me if you are interested.

[cbh148]

PM sent. Thanks man!

[nickhebert]

your pm's are turned off but I know this is like your 3rd rebuild so I'm sure the budget isnt huge so how does $125 plus shipping sound? The guy i got it from spun the #3 rod bearing had it remachined and polish and lost interest in the build

[cbh148]

My bad about the PM's being turned off. Just fixed that (sucks how that setting defaults).

If I end up needing a crankshaft, and I don't think I will, then I'll buy yours. I really appreciate the help man.

[nickhebert]

No problem just trying to help keep a ca out there on the road.

[mdb4879]

My stepdad is about to assemble Casey's motor and was curious about something. Do CA's have any sort of end-play adjustment? Like a shim or anything? I thought he noticed this earlier, but tonight he mentioned the thrust face on the number 3 main bearings were chewed up. To him it looks like the result of too much end-play in the crank and wanted to know if there was any sort of adjustment for it like on old VW's. He doesn't know what else may have caused it and if he'd have seen it on, say, a Chevy big block he'd freak out, especially with only 2000 miles on it. I don't have pictures of that face on the crank, but he said it was "smooth as glass." Here's some pictures of the bearings.

Non-thrust face (harmonic balancer side)





Thrust face (clutch side)







He hasn't yet, but he's going to get out his dial indicator and measure the end-play.

[bradsopex]

Casey, that really sucks. R&R screwed it up pretty good.

[mdb4879]

Ok, so the end-play spec is suppose to be between 0.002" and 0.009". We have 0.037". What do y'all think? Is there anything that should or even can be done?

[cbh148]

So I'm already a lot more financially deep into this bastard CA18 than I ever meant to be. And now it needs a lot more money.

Money I Owe:
$270 labor for taking the engine out and apart
$80 new bearings (that won't get used because I need another crankshaft and they can't refund these, but I still gotta pay for them)
$150 new crankshaft
$80 new bearings (for the new crankshaft)
$270 labor for assembling the engine and putting it back in the car
$100 fluids/miscellaneous
--------------------------------------------------------------
$950 Total

If this is what it comes to, then I'm probably gonna have to pull the plug on project CA18, then just wait till after I get my 2nd college degree and start making money so I can drift (at which point, I'm gonna have a real hard time going back to a CA18 again).

[float_6969]

This sucks man. Have you gone back to the shop with the new info to see what they'll do for you? I doubt they will, but maybe you could try small claims court or something.

[cbh148]

I haven't had a chance to speak with the shop owner yet, but I'm hoping to next week.

I was all down to take them to small claims court, but the more we thought about it, the more we realized it would just drain more money out of me. It's because I only had them assemble my short block, so I did the rest of the engine assembly, which opens up the possibility that I screwed everything up. Hell, it's technically possible that I could've paid them that $300 in assembly labor alone, then picked the engine up and taken it home where I could've taken it apart and put stuff in backwards then reassembled everything.

In other words, it'd be hard for me to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that it's their fault. I know I wouldn't be lying, because I've got nothing to hide, but if I can't prove it with hard evidence, and I lost in court, I'd be even worse off.

[float_6969]

Sounds like it's time for a pillowcase party

[s13drifter88]

Holy Jebus, something smells faqked!

[nickhebert]

do you need a new crank? I can get you some pictures if you want?

[bentvalves]

you need a thicker thrust bearing. they are available.

[mdb4879]

Yeah, that's the best option if we can get one. We're waiting on the word from the guy at the machine shop on if they can get a wider one before we go any further. I just had a look on King Bearings' site and I think things are looking good in that department.

Btw, where do you guys get your Clevite bearings from? I had a look around and couldn't find any. I found the part numbers but everywhere I looked one set was back ordered for like 2 months and the other set they couldn't even get. Then again I was looking for undersizes. Are the standard sizes still available?

[r34 gtr]

Ugggg that looks gross. Sorry to hear about all this mess, man. I have built bottom ends better than that in my work shop filled with sawdust while drunk that came out better than that, and I am a moron.

I got my Clevite 77s from AutoZone on south parkway, over by Bandito Southside and Lowes and whatnot. They were standard size though. Also they were considerably less than $80 for man + rod bearings. I am thinking $21 for rod and $35 for main, but it has been a while.

I hope it all works out for you, man. I hate to say it, but it you decide to jump ship I will buy you out. I would prefer you didn't let it come to that though.

[cbh148]

Ugggg that looks gross. Sorry to hear about all this mess, man. I have built bottom ends better than that in my work shop filled with sawdust while drunk that came out better than that, and I am a moron.

I got my Clevite 77s from AutoZone on south parkway, over by Bandito Southside and Lowes and whatnot. They were standard size though. Also they were considerably less than $80 for man + rod bearings. I am thinking $21 for rod and $35 for main, but it has been a while.

I hope it all works out for you, man. I hate to say it, but it you decide to jump ship I will buy you out. I would prefer you didn't let it come to that though.

Yeah I worked at that AutoZone, and I don't think they're carrying bearings for Pulsars anymore. I'll let you know if I decide to sell for sure.

[cbh148]

Picked up a new crankshaft last night in Knoxville, along with an extra idle control valve and cold start valve (to go along with the other set of extra idle/coldstart valves I got 3 weeks ago), so hopefully I'll have the car back on the road in about 2 weeks AND it will start up cold and idle properly! Right now we're just waiting on the bearings to come in.

I got a deal on the crankshaft -- just traded an extra catback exhaust and gauge cluster for it. It's supposedly a virgin crank. The guy claimed it spec'd up perfect, and the journals look and feel super smooth.

[float_6969]

Awesome! I'm really glad to hear you're not giving up on this.

[cbh148]

Yeah I just really want to make the next local event, which is July 28th. It's gonna be a stretch for my sketchy ca18 and my wallet to make it.