Headlights won't pop up...

[Danrc30]

1993 240SX vert, and my headlights won't pop up when I turn the switch on. They light up just fine. They will pop up only when I either hit the switch that raises them or if I flash the high beams... They work fine then! Is there some sort of relay or something that is supposed to trigger the lights to go up when I turn the headlights on?

[s13sr20chris]

yeah, there are like 6 or so relays actually. its a pretty complex circuit but fixable im sure. obviously the hardware works so thats really good. i would double check the lamp switch since you can do it with the high beams and open/close switch. if that checks ok i will put up a copy of the wiring diagram.

[Danrc30]

How do I check the switch? Is there something specific I should check?

[s13sr20chris]

[s13sr20chris]

and now that i am not being lazy i will show you the wiring diagrams! see in the second one why i suggest starting with the switch. the switch is easier. you just pull the switch off and test for continuity at the terminals that are connected by the black lines.

[Danrc30]

Ok, I finally had a little time tonight to troubleshoot this. I did this cause my passenger side light decided to not go down anymore. I traced it to the grey retract relay in the relay box just behind the headlight. I put a used one in and that solved that problem. (I am going to get a new grey relay tomorrow at Nissan.)

I then went in the console and changed the headlight switch to see if that was the problem. It wasn't. It did the same thing... except the healights won't even come up now when I hit the high beams... not with either headlight switch! Who knows why this is. I don't know if this changed before or after I swapped out the relay.

Is there a relay or relays that make the lights go up when you turn the lights on?

---Dan

[Danrc30]

Ok, I just put the new relay in, and the high beams work the headlights again. They will go up and down when i hit the high beams, but still will not go up when I turn the lights on. Can someone please tell me which relay is next in line to replace? Please... any suggestions will be appreciated.

[Danrc30]

Anyone?

Please????????

[s13sr20chris]

hmmmm, did you try whacking the headlamp timer unit?

[Danrc30]

hmmmm, did you try whacking the headlamp timer unit?

Not yet. Where is it located?

[s13sr20chris]

by the drivers feet. its a small box. im not sure if its behind the knee bolster or behind the kick panel.

[Danrc30]

by the drivers feet. its a small box. im not sure if its behind the knee bolster or behind the kick panel.

Could I get a better descrition of the box? Color maybe? Thanks.

[NISTECH]

Where did this replacement head light switch come from? New or used? The box is either white or green. The fact the lights do jump up when 2 other options are used leads me to the switch as it did Chris. I will breeze through the diag and see if I can give your a better guess to hang a part [since it is your money] but it would be more cost effective for you if you tested some circuits to determine what exactly is failing in the system. Not slammin you here just trying to save you some green back.

[Danrc30]

Where did this replacement head light switch come from? New or used? The box is either white or green. The fact the lights do jump up when 2 other options are used leads me to the switch as it did Chris. I will breeze through the diag and see if I can give your a better guess to hang a part [since it is your money] but it would be more cost effective for you if you tested some circuits to determine what exactly is failing in the system. Not slammin you here just trying to save you some green back.

The switch was used but it was from my parts car and the lights did work properly on that car. Since I have the parts car, I don't mind swappibg parts back and forth to see what the problem is.

As far as tesing circuits goes, I'm about as fluent with electronic circuits as Paris Hilton is with reality.

Sorry to put you guys through this, but like I said, I can just start swapping parts from the parts car. I just need to know what to start swapping first!

[NISTECH]

The difference in operation between the 3 modes of opening is the time control unit recieves a signal on terminal 3 when turning the headlights from parking lights to headloghts[the point at which the motors are suppose to operate to up] In the other 2 choices it does not send a signal to that terminal. BUT that circuit also uses its own fuse. so you need to look at the fuse too. Note though that fuse supposedly also powers your marker and tail lights. Still check to make sure the 3rd fuse up on the right side of your fuse box in the drivers kick panel has power on both sides when the switch is turned on. It is a 15 amp fuse. If it does go to the time control unit and do the same test on terminal #3 with the switch turned to the on position. The timer is located in the drivers kick panel, and its black not the colors I mentioned before. When you pull the kick panel trim off you will see 2 controllers one white and one black. the one further in is black, that is the unit your after.

[Danrc30]

The difference in operation between the 3 modes of opening is the time control unit recieves a signal on terminal 3 when turning the headlights from parking lights to headloghts[the point at which the motors are suppose to operate to up] In the other 2 choices it does not send a signal to that terminal. BUT that circuit also uses its own fuse. so you need to look at the fuse too. Note though that fuse supposedly also powers your marker and tail lights. Still check to make sure the 3rd fuse up on the right side of your fuse box in the drivers kick panel has power on both sides when the switch is turned on. It is a 15 amp fuse. If it does go to the time control unit and do the same test on terminal #3 with the switch turned to the on position. The timer is located in the drivers kick panel, and its black not the colors I mentioned before. When you pull the kick panel trim off you will see 2 controllers one white and one black. the one further in is black, that is the unit your after.

Ok, found it and swapped them out. But it didn't work...

I'm so frustrated... it makes no sense....

[NISTECH]

Did you check the fuse?

you have swapped all possible parts from one car to the other at this point so this leads to a wiring issue. You need to get a volt meter and figure out how to use it and start testing. I will help walk you through it. This is the only way you are going to find this problem.

[Danrc30]

Yes, the fuse is good.

[NISTECH]

I will say this though. once you test this circuit you will be very proficent at testing things as this is one of the more complex [stupid] circuits nissan engineers came up with.

[Danrc30]

hahaha.... ok, so where do I begin my fist lesson?

[NISTECH]

You need to test terminal 3 for power when you turn the head lamp switch to headlights. The black lead on your meter goes to a good ground, in the area your working in the steering coloum boot studs coming through the firewall are good ones. Test to make sure you have a good ground by touching the red lead of your meter to the backs of some of the fuses where the slots are on the fuses back side.[this also how to check fuses without pulling them out] when you see 12 volts you connection is good. now poistion your head light timer control unit so you can back probe the connector while its plugged into the unit. Locate terminal 3 and test it. terminal 3 is the one directly below the push clip to release the connector. It should be red with a blue tracer.

[Danrc30]

Ok. I pulled the fuse and with no key in and no lights on, the left side of the fuse has 12 volts, and the right side has nothing (when you're looking at the fuse box of course).

I put the fuse back in and tested the red/blue wire you suggested. I get nothing until I turn the parking lights on. They come on, and then that wire has power. I tested it fron the front while the black box was unplugged and with it plugged into the box.

What's next?

(this is going to turn into a great troubleshooting reference guide for a lot of people... lol)

[NISTECH]

Ok still at the time control unit you need to test for power on terminal 9 the same way. terminal 9 is orange and is located at the end terminal right next to another orange wire that is the second terminal in. you want to test only the end one at this point.

[Danrc30]

Ok, When I test this wire and hit the headlights, it jumps to around .09 and then quickly goes down to .02 to .04 volts. It does nothing when I just hit the parking lights.

[NISTECH]

disconnect it and test it. you should see 12 volts

[Danrc30]

Disconnected it and I got nothing.

[NISTECH]

ok you now need to move to the headlight switch and check for power at terminal 26. see Chris's post with the combination switch for the location of that terminal. it is a orange with black tracer wire in that connector. you need to remove the covers behind your steering wheel, but you do not need to remove the steering wheel to gain access to the connectors.

[Danrc30]

Getting 12 volts on that wire when the headlight switch turns on.

[NISTECH]

you have found the wire thats the problem, BTW that wire you tested at the head light switch is a direct feed to the last wire you tested at the timing control unit. Seem odd to you why at this end of the wire you have 12volts and at the other end you have almost nothing??

I think I know your problem but we want to check for voltage at one other location. remove retract relay #4 and check for power at terminal #1. the relay is in the box at the right of the engine compartment. the wire color is orange. My guess is you wont see any power there either but you should. If not we need to find the diode block, let me know what you come up with on your test and I will look for the diode block.

[Danrc30]

I pulled the relay (this is the same one I replaced a few days ago) and looked inside and saw a little number 1. I went to that terminal and turned the lights on. I got .02 volts.