Headlights won't pop up...

[NISTECH]

make sure that wire is the orange one your testing. The numbers on top of the relay dont represent the terminal locations.

[NISTECH]

If you are sure that terminal was the orange wire the next thing your gonna test is the diode pack located behind your pocket below your radio. once you get 2 it you will see the 2 wires you have been testing on one end of the diode pack[orange with black tracer and orange].with it still together back probe the wires and check for power again. this is the part I believe has failed. if you see power on one side but not the other this is your failed part, you can either swap it from your parts unit or you can jumper those 2 wires to test it, if your lights now work you need to permanantly replace that diode pack.

if you dont have power on either side post back.

[Danrc30]

Ok, I just took it apart and saw that I wasn't testing the orange wire. I did test it and when I turned the lights on I got 0 volts.

I then took my radio out and lookd for the black box behind the pocket, but I couldn't find it anywhere. Do you have any pics of what it looks like and where it's located?

[NISTECH]

Its not a black box, it looks like a connector with a plug in it. if you look at it from the end it looks like it has a bunch of arrows on it.

[Danrc30]

YES! THAT WAS IT!!! IT WORKS... IT WORKS!!!!!!!! HAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! WOOOOHOOOO!!!!! YOU DA BOMB!!!!

Now, I gotta ask you this... at what point did you know that was my problem? Did I have to tear all of those other things apart to figure it out, or could we have switched that in the beginning to see if that was the problem?

[NISTECH]

I knew right before you rechecked the relay under the hood the last time.

[NISTECH]

More when you tested the headlight switch and told me it had power out of that line and the time control unit didnt I suspected it right then. They dont usually go out.

[NISTECH]

Yes you had to tear all that apart to test the circuit to find out, I try to stay away from guessing when I am unsure of the problem with a car because it can cost the customer money, so I will spend a little more time then what the customer was estimated, especialy if I am unsure of how long it will take me to find the problem. I know you have a car you can rip parts off of to fix this one but sometimes that can take longer then the testing will. Doing the test through the forums took quite some time but in real world cicumstances I would have found that problem in less then an hour.

Question for you now though. Do you feel more confident in your circuit testing skills? do you understand what you were testing and why? other then the whole picture, I mean why you were testing that particular wire. If you under stand what it was you were doing you will most definitly be able to takle something like this in the future with much more ease and likely with out assistance as long as you have a diagram and know how to trace the power flow of the circuit.

[Danrc30]

Ok, I know how to use a meter and find voltages and stuff, but I have a hard time reading wiring diagrams. I just haven't developed an aptitude for it yet and I get lost. I think I need someone to show me in person what to look for and how to troubleshoot. I did figure out on my own the other day that the retract relay was bad. I used the diagram and solved the problem... I'm just not very confident in this area.

I took that piece apart and I saw where it burnt out on the lil circuit board. Lil piece of crap... I have no idea why it's there and why they put it where they did. Often Nissan engineering makes no sense.

I now see exactly what you were doing, but I wouldn't have been able to follow that myself by using the book mainly because I had no idea where those parts were that we were testing...

[NISTECH]

That part is there to prevent back feed voltage when another feed is put into that wire. It acts as a gate only allowing voltage to flow one way. back in the 90's the engineers had a hard on for those things, they are all over the car. They still use them today but far fewer of them.

[Danrc30]

Ah... I see... Well, I'm extremely happy now that they work properly. Thanks so much for the help. If you need any parts, I'll see if I can hook you up. I still have some stuff left... white 93 hatchback...

[NISTECH]

Drivers power window master switch?

[Danrc30]

Sorry, car came with manual windows... it was a bottom line car. I just got it for a 5-speed transmission swap from the auto that came in mine.

I'll see if I can find you one though...

[NISTECH]

Nah dont sweat it man, mine works, I am just missing the black cap over the passenger switch. Its really not that big a deal. I appreciate it though.

[onosqv]

YES! THAT WAS IT!!! IT WORKS... IT WORKS!!!!!!!! HAAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! WOOOOHOOOO!!!!! YOU DA BOMB!!!!

Now, I gotta ask you this... at what point did you know that was my problem? Did I have to tear all of those other things apart to figure it out, or could we have switched that in the beginning to see if that was the problem?

Can you take a pic of that bad boy? I'm having your exact same problem & was trying to follow your steps.

[onosqv]

Drivers power window master switch?

Do you need just the switch & not the bezel? I may have the switch (bezel is cracked) - - I'm so excited I'm gonna pull my car apart tonite... maybe even @ lunch - finally, lights that go up correctly, hehheehhehehehehe. Been looking for this answer for MONTHS!

[Danrc30]

If you mean the part I had to replace, a pic won't help unfortunately. This is because it's hidden under either a semi-clear plastic sheathing, or under black electrical tape. In both cars, the part was taped to another part of the wiring harness under and intertwined with the climate control unit's wiring harness. If you really dig deep back there, you should find it. When you uncover it, you'll see it's blue with a clear cap on the end and a bunch of arrows on it just like nissan mechanic said.

Hope that helps. Let me know if you find it...

[onosqv]

Is it a blue plug w/ 6 wires? orange, orange w/ black tracer, 2 red ones, 1 pink one, 1 yellow one?

And connected to it should be a blue relay thing-a-ma-bobber?

The orange & orange w/ black tracer should be jumpered together right? I get power on one and not the other.

If so, I found my problem... had to remove that for the s13 digital climate control install.

[Danrc30]

I'm not positive on all of the wire colors, but if you remove the semi-clear cap on the "blue-thingy" you'll see a tiny circuitboard. One of the lines on mine was burnt out. Take a look at that and if you see a burnt spot, you know yours is bad.

[onosqv]

AND FIXED!!!!!! hoo hoo hoo.

And now to my other back feeding/power issues...

[NISTECH]

Do you need just the switch & not the bezel? I may have the switch (bezel is cracked) - - I'm so excited I'm gonna pull my car apart tonite... maybe even @ lunch - finally, lights that go up correctly, hehheehhehehehehe. Been looking for this answer for MONTHS!

Yep just the switches the bezel on mine is fine.

[Danrc30]

Ok, now I'm REALLY ANNOYED!!! The right (passenger) headlight stopped going down again! (I guess you could say it's "stuck up" ) I already replaced the grey relay on the passenger side under the hood. The drivers side goes up and down as it should when the switch is turned on. What could be causing this now?!?!?!

[onosqv]

Maybe your car just likes winking .

You're going to have to go through all that wiring test stuff Nistech taught you, haha.

So your passenger light will go up? but not down (i.e. you set it down manually, then it will pop up correctly)?

By now, you might as well rerun your own wires to the damn headlights, .

**EDIT: yea, Nistech, can't find the switches, o well .

[Danrc30]

I haven't set it down manually... No way am I rewiring this car... that's a recipe for disaster! I't gotta be something stupid like another small part or relay that went bad.

---hoping nistech will once again come to the rescue...

[NISTECH]

pull the cap off the motor and manually crank it down. Make sure your lights and retract switchs are in the down position when you do it. If you start cranking it and it takes off on you and goes down. retry the switches and see if it starts functioning again. It may be the contacts in the motor are bad. If thats it swap the motor from the other car to this one.

[Danrc30]

I think my car either has a mind of its own, or it's possessed. Since it looks stupid with one headlight up, I just kept both up by using the switch on the dashboard. I just went out to try your method. I hit the switch and the drivers side went down right away, which was followed shortly by the passenger side. So now it's an intermittent problem. Does this mean the motor is on its way out?

[NISTECH]

Yep sounds like the motor has a poor connection internally since both lights use the same signal to go up or down.

[Danrc30]

Can I open up the motor and repair the faulty connection?

[NISTECH]

I have neer ripped one open but its probably possible just becarful with it as there are small parts in it.

[Danrc30]

Ok, the headlight stopped going down again. I cranked it down several times and it pops up when I hit the lights but it won't go down at all on its own. I even tried using another motor and the same thing happens. I think I've ruled out a faulty motor. What else could it be?

(I used to love pop up headlights... )

---Dan
Modified by Danrc30 at 9:01 PM 7/20/2005