Headlights + Elec Fan = Horrible Idle

Post by **Katapl** » Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:15 pm

The battery was fully charged on the test. The problem has been progressively getting worse. It's hardly able to sustain idle with just an electric fan on, and nothing else now. Like I said, when an accessory was on, it didn't just drop. It dropped more, and more, and more and so on. This friend of ours knows plenty more than I do, and he's certain it's the alternator. I'm going to have it rebuild for more amps while it's out. Then I know I'll never have any issues like this again. The car has been running specifically off the battery, apparently.

Post by **float_6969** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 5:51 am

Keep us updated and let us know how much the rebuild was and how the car runs now.

Post by **Katapl** » Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:21 am

float_6969 wrote:Keep us updated and let us know how much the rebuild was and how the car runs now.

I will update the thread when I have it rebuilt and back onto the car. I will not be able to take it in until at least Tuesday or Wednesday, though.

Post by **Katapl** » Wed Apr 16, 2008 5:43 pm

Dropped the alternator off earlier today. The guy told me it would be about $100 to rebuild, and I should have it back about Friday. He also said that being an 80 amp, it outta actually put out more like 100 when it's rebuilt to like-new.

I'll let you guys know how it goes when I get it back and bolted on.

Post by **maik21** » Thu Apr 17, 2008 8:22 am

i will wait for results !!!

Post by **Katapl** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:16 pm

The alternator now puts out 13.89 with EVERYTHING on, but the idle still isn't fixed. It idles horribly with everything on... still. I unplugged the AAC plug on the side of the intake, and it basically ran worse, so I couldn't say it was that. It idles down to 500 with everything off when I unplug the AAC plug.

Could the timing possibly be off a little? Though, I'd doubt it since it drives great and has full power, besides idling.

p.s. the rebuild cost was $105 for a full on complete rebuild.
Modified by Katapl at 10:56 PM 4/18/2008

Post by **ca18detgabby** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:29 pm

if you are getting a code for your CAS........ dont you think you should probably check it?

Post by **Katapl** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:45 pm

I didn't get a code for the CAS. I only got a knock sensor code last I checked. I'm just wondering if perhaps the timing is off a little, but even that shouldn't effect the engine ONLY when I draw more and more power.

Post by **DALAZ_68** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:50 pm

then maybe take the advise of the other guy and get new mounts...

or silicone fill ur old ones...bam solid mounts

Post by **ca18detgabby** » Fri Apr 18, 2008 9:17 pm

Katapl wrote:I didn't get a code for the CAS. I only got a knock sensor code last I checked. I'm just wondering if perhaps the timing is off a little, but even that shouldn't effect the engine ONLY when I draw more and more power.

sorry my bad mis-read

woudl consider checking out the knock sensor and timing.

Post by **r34 gtr** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 6:56 am

And you can never have enough ground wires. Its kind of ridiculous what a difference it can make.

Post by **maik21** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:40 am

power wires need to be equal to ground wires... i mean gauge... current in its equal to current out. so wires need to be equal...

for the op... try to change your mounts, if there arent expensive, u will not lose anything...

Post by **r34 gtr** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 9:57 am

Why not more ground wires than power wires? Ive got a whole bunch of massive ground straps and it made the difference between running and not running one a few occasions.

Post by **maik21** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 12:39 pm

current travel from +point in your battery and goes to the electrical system then return to -point on your battery. some times u dont use ground wire for your accesories because u use chassis as a ground point, but anyways... chassis needs a ground wire to battery.

maybe u dont understand but wires needs to be equal with the correct gauge. i dont teach you anything, but i study this stuffs for a while. if it works for you great, but u can save some money if u do it right.

Post by **Katapl** » Sat Apr 19, 2008 1:30 pm

I'll try adding a thick ground about the same gauge as the battery cable for another engine ground. There's already a good ground on the battery, and it goes to the spare tire slot thing section in the trunk (being where the battery is).

While I was at work, my father adjusted the idle a little bit by hand, and the car held idle with everything on. I may just up the idle a small bit if I can't figure anything else out.

Thank you all for the help so far.

Post by **splintercell** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 2:49 pm

did you use 0 ga power wire and ground ? thats what i used on my kinetic battery relocation.

Post by **Katapl** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 4:00 pm

splintercell wrote:did you use 0 ga power wire and ground ? thats what i used on my kinetic battery relocation.

I used what came with my summit kit. It was the same gauge as the positive cable.

Post by **float_6969** » Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:31 pm

Set the idle and timing via the process laid out in the FSM.

Post by **Katapl** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 11:20 am

Is it highly necessary to install a fuseblock up front when you do a battery relocation? Here's what my power supply setup looks like in my engine bay.

<Warning> BIG PICTURE.

http://img149.imageshack.us/im...7.jpg

Post by **splintercell** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:31 pm

heres my setup

SARD battery boxKINETIC AUDIO deep cycle battery0 ga power and 0 ga ground 1.5 ft grounded to spare tire bolt downmobile spec distribution block w 250amp wafer fuse.

Post by **biosehnsucht** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 3:42 pm

Katapl wrote:Is it highly necessary to install a fuseblock up front when you do a battery relocation? Here's what my power supply setup looks like in my engine bay.

<Warning> BIG PICTURE.

http://img149.imageshack.us/im...7.jpg

How is that positive cable attatched from the battery cable to the alt/etc wires? Can't see past the tape... that could be a problem area too if its a poor connection, electrically speaking.

Post by **Katapl** » Mon Apr 21, 2008 7:24 pm

The battery cable, alt wire, accessory stuff and my fan are pretty much stuck together with a bolt and screw holding them all together.

I tried screwing with the timing today, and I fully advanced the timing and it ran almost perfect. I'm scared to leave it like that. I'd hate to shell-out an engine with so much advance

I'm just gonna have to put a light on it. With advanced timing (according to CAS) it started acting a bit weird, so I turned it back, and now it ran as good as it did yesterday with advanced timing.

Modified by Katapl at 12:19 PM 4/22/2008

Post by **Katapl** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 3:42 pm

Timing is at 15 degrees.

Post by **Katapl** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:24 pm

Okay, and here is what we have for a power supply setup in the engine bay...

http://img152.imageshack.us/im...6.jpg

The cable from the left is the battery in the trunk, the connector above that runs right into the harness, and the connector below the battery runs into the fuse block (which you can see) harness. The fan is the black wire with the yellow protector above that.

You can see there's really no fuse block at all there. They're just all connected together with a bolt and nut.

Could that be the problem?

Post by **biosehnsucht** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:10 pm

maybe your CAS has skipped or the timing belt is off?

could also be too much fueling, I remember when I was having all kinds of trouble I could crank the CAS all the way and it would idle smoother... but didn't trust running that way. I eventuall set it correctly to 15 BTDC. CA's don't generally like advancement..

Post by **Katapl** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 6:25 pm

It's been set back to 15 degrees earlier today. I also added a ground strap from the engine to the frame. Nothing has changed.

Post by **biosehnsucht** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:24 pm

Well, you might try a 'proper' connection between the battery and the alt/accessories, just to rule out a bad connection there. I'm not sure what the relative conduction of different bolts would be to a 'proper' purpose-made piece of equipment.

Other than that, if it's struggling at idle, and the alt is strong, perhaps its a fuel/spark issue. Check the plugs, and test the coilpacks and igniter. Possibly try disconnecting a coilpack at a time to see if it affects idle at all. Are you running stock injectors / CA MAF / ECU ? Is the O2 hooked up ? Is the O2 new or relatively new, or is it the one that came with the motor?

I'm kinda grasping at straws but I know my car struggled at idle when it was running overly rich, but seemed to run fine under load.

Post by **Katapl** » Tue Apr 22, 2008 7:45 pm

All that stuff is stock, and the o2 is hooked up. It looks relatively new. I think the car could possibly be running rich, though.

It's not simply struggling at idle... it's struggling when I draw too much power. I.E. headlights + brake lights + heater + fan, etc

Post by **ca18detgabby** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 4:38 am

not as bad as you discribe but I had a little issue like this and when I went to the cheapo copper plugs and it ran amazing

Post by **splintercell** » Wed Apr 23, 2008 8:01 am

i still think you should yank that power wire and ground and replace with 0 ga power and no more than 1.5ft of 0ga ground off battery. most of those relocation kits are 4ga sometimes 2. ive installed at least 5 battery relocates and never had any issues.

Headlights + Elec Fan = Horrible Idle

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