Garrett GT25R vs. T3/T04E

For discussion of front-drive SR20DE, SR20VE and SR20DET engines!
240SXer
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"280 HP @ rear wheels at 1.3 bar boost" That was BEFORE the GT25, right?


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Dori Dori
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Well, since the turbo we are talking about is technically called a GT25/40, we may have a little miscommunication issue here.

AussieS15
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Yes 240SXer that power figure was with the standard turbo.We eventually cracked 305whp at 19psi after some more fine tuning.The standard S15 turbo is an excellent turbo and is capable of more power than that with the addition of cams, bigger throttle body and maybe some headwork.

I'm running the .64 housing....Yes it's limiting full top end power but I didn't want any extra lag.

The 555cc Nismo injectors are fine. I think their on about 75% DC (not entirely sure)

Current power is 320whp at 17psi (really only running 1.1 - 1.15 by the time it reaches max power) My tune is very safe indeed only cause the pistons and bottom end is stock and so is the head gasket. While tuning we hit 335whp running the mix a bit leaner and a bit more boost but set it back for safety.

My boost controller (HKS EVC IV) is playing up a little and spikes quite a bit so I'm not running anything over 17psi bar at the moment. I had it up to 20psi one cold night and it was unbelievable

Gladius
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^^^ Sigh, my car is getting there.... But yours looks a lot nicer.

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Def
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Sounds like an awesome car AussieS15! I have to say that when I was in Australia just after New Years, S15's were some of the nicest looking cars there. Only wish they were available here. :(

Anyway - how is the lag on the GT25R with the 0.64 A/R turbine compared to the stock S15 T28? Also how much longerr does it take for full boost to hit in say a 4th gear pull?

AussieS15
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Cheers Def.....I previously had a 400hp '99 WRX which I was very happy with but when I saw the new S15 I just had to have one plus I was getting a little tired of having too much AWD grip :)Next I had on order was a full Vertex body kit but now i'm getting married (This Saturday in fact) i've had to stop spending on my car. Hopefully I can keep it for a bit longer too :( I would still like to put a metal head gasket in, do some head work and try another boost controller and retune it but my missus has put a strangle on my spending.

Well as far as lag goes there is definitely more than the stock turbo but it actually starts building boost as soon as you put your foot in it but slowly until about 2900-3000 RPM. After 3000rpm it starts coming on very strong like a freight train and by 3800-3900rpm you've hit full boost. Answer to your other question: its about the same in every gear...the higher gears like 4th 5th & 6th tend to hit full boost a little earlier due to the increased load.

In all honesty it is nice to drive off boost as I always have about 2-3psi on tap casue of the ball bearing centre, having the cams and the tuned exhaust manifold and the bigger throttle body help it a lot too. Believe it or not I find I don't even have to push it in normal driving as there is enough pull even before your actually making boost for around town.

It does seem to drop off boost at about 6600rpm in 1st and 2nd but i'm not sure if thats caused by my boost controller or the smaller A/R exhaust housing.

If I had to do it again though I might have chosen the HKS GT-RS turbo as it will make the same power but with a little less lag but you've got to weigh up the extra $$$'s

For guys chasing 400+whp, you'd have to go for the HKS 3037 to do it comfortably but a good setup with a GT25R .86 A/R will also get you there too.

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Def
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Congrats on tying the knot! I know what you mean about women draining the car funds(which isn't always a bad thing), and those Aussie women didn't seem to back down easily from what I saw. :)

It's got to be getting late there, so one more question.

How is the transient response of the turbo? Say you're at about 4500-5000RPM in 3rd gear, completely let off the throttle then get back on it. How long does it take boost to build and is it smooth?

I'm mainly thinking of going with an SR20DET and this turbo for open track days and the like. Transient response is honestly more important to me than a few hundred RPM of earlier spool, so this turbo seems awesome in that respect with dual ball bearings hopefully making for a good response.

I think 340-350rwhp and a controllable transient response would make for a killer 2400lb S13(1080kg for you metric types).

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Movingviolation240
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Dori Dori wrote:Well, since the turbo we are talking about is technically called a GT25/40, we may have a little miscommunication issue here.


It's technically a GT25R, other people call it a 25/40 because they think it sounds cooler. On Garrett's site (japan) that's what they call it.

msaskin
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Actually, it's technically called a GT25/40R. Check Garrett's (an american company btw) website.

Here's the official garrett flow map stating so:http://not2fast.wryday.com/tur...s.gif

edit: i'll admit it, i'm a moron. a check of garrett's actual catalog (http://www.turbobygarrett.com/...3.pdf) shows it to be called a GT25R.

~matt

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Dori Dori
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I call it a gt25/40 b/c atp turbo (an official garrett distributor) calls it a gt25/40. I also spoke with a garrett rep at a drag event and they had a 'normal' gt25r up on display...it definately wasn't the one with the t04s compressor housing! Not trying to be cool.;)

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Movingviolation240
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They have 2 25R's one with a T04S and one with a T04B housing.

And these turbo's are coming from Japan, that's the only place we can get them from right now. Trust me I've looked everywhere.

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Dori Dori
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The one I saw was like this:http://www.atpturbo.com/Mercha...e=GRT

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RobDET
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Hey moving is your stuff still for sale? If so I'll send a money order as soon as you reply. You can email me [email protected]

I'll send you a PM too.

VitaminT
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RobDET wrote:Hey moving is your stuff still for sale? If so I'll send a money order as soon as you reply. You can email me [email protected]

I'll send you a PM too.


Haha, I already jumped on that (if you are talking about his turbo, o2 housing, mani). Prepaid :D

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RobDET
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knet i shoulda looked at this thread sooner

240SXer
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Me too.. It's my thread.. damn! I would have jumped on it too.

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Movingviolation240
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BTW it's off and will be in the mail monday or tuesday (gotta get up to my buddies shop to get that cheap shipping, unless you want me to do it tomorrow, but it will cost like 10-15 more). PM me back, or if I don't hear from you I'll do it the cheap way.

Sorry everybody else....

Paul

VitaminT
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Email sent.

240SXer
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Got my z32 maf on friday... I'm on my way.. injectors next.. then ecu.. then turbo.... etc....

VitaminT
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yay. Good luck on the upgrade. Hope you have to nice wide and sticky tires.

240SXer
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I've got 245/50R16 Nitto Drag Radials... :) They're pretty damn sticky. I can barely chirp 2nd most of the time. When I bought them the dude at the store asked why I was putting the drags on the rear when my car is front wheel drive, I told him it was rear, he said it wasnt. I wanted to punch the guy in his face at that point. Grrr... He later noticed it was indeer RWD and felt stupid.

240SXer
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When I get my ECU/Injectors, can I mess around and boost my T25 really high since I have the fuel? What is the risk of detonation? Could I go to like 17psi since i'm gonna get rid of the turbo anyway?

VitaminT
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I think the problem with the stock turbo is that it 1. won't hold boost that high or 2. gets way too hot causing intake temps to skyrocket damaging your motor.

240SXer
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Ehh.. I guess I won't be doing that then. I should get my EGT gage fully installed this afternoon. Will that tell me enough? I've had the sensor welded in for 6 months, but i've been too lazy to hook it up.

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180crafter
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Where do you have it hooked up???

240SXer
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On the manifold... in front of #1 cyl....

msaskin
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Perfect place. Don't let people tell you to mount it post-turbo due to the risk of the EGT probe breaking off.

~matt

240SXer
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Why is that? Is it not an issue? it's gonna have to be removed because i'm getting my manifold modified for an external gate.

msaskin
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It is such a minor issue. I'd much rather take the risk of the probe breaking/damaging the turbo than lose the ability to use EGT's for tuning. Post-turbo the temperatures have cooled too much to tell anything useful from them.

~matt

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slw240sx
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should have put it in runner 4


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