Frustrated-Help Please-Running Rough

[Q45tech]

We'll miss the wimps and rif raf who don't step up and who really didn't love the Q unconditionally...............more wantabee owners.

When times get tough they run away instead of plunging in with money, obviously they didn't deserve the challenges a Q presented in the first place. Too much of their life was consummed with family and children.

When I did BMW V12 750 in early 90's I pointed out the same things.

I look forward to saying the same about all electrics and hydrogen powered cars.

At least a 4 day work week will give you a full day per week to concentrate on vehicle repairs and access to shops on Friday.

Hopefully you realize I'm kidding somewhat especially in beginning but that;s the way it is with old lux -o- sports.

[qship96]

I look at it more as starting the cycle over again....retire the old Q after having driven it 250,000 miles{hopefully} and picking up a new/newer vehicle to take on its 250,000 mile journey!

Real question will be what to replace it with when the time comes and that depends on many things, including then current fuel costs/ availability

Maybe a Smart for 2 convertible....a m50/m45....a 06Q.....LS460.....who knows? Will need to be designed for todays fuels without the issues we are seeing in our old Q.......and be fun to drive like the g50!

[NightRiderQ45]

I agree.....mine is gone if it develops injector or transmission problems, cant see sinking $2500-3000 for new OEM injectors that will not last as they have not improved the construction to eliminate the problem, or the value in dropping 3k into a new transmission.....and then have the injector problem rear its ugly head.....so whichever goes first{injectors or transmission} spells time for the Q retirement party

Well put. If my transmission goes, I'll probably purchase a nice re-built one, but I'm not going to deal with the injector issues though since the construction will not be updated. Right now, I using NON ethanol Phillips 66 gas in my area.

[AlabamaDan]

Well I figure I'll keep mine going. If it costs me $1k to fix this stuff then that's what 2-3 car payments on a new car, a new FORD. I spent about $1 last year in maint. Another year this year, etc... That's not bad considering I have no car payment at all. Besides, I have alot of pride in my car knowing that I do all this work myself.

I'll probably suck it up and do the plenum job myself if I can recruit some help. You can't afford to keep these cars up if you carry them to the shop all the time.

[Q451990]

Well, I think you've been through all of the stages of Q45 grief!

-Denial, disbelief, numbness: "The car was running great yesterday! WTF happened?"

-Anger: "This sucks! I'm going to crash the Q into a gas station... kill two headaches in one swift ball of fire!"

-Bargaining: "Lord, please let this just be a coil pack or loose connector"

-Depressed Mood, Sadness, Crying: (calculator clicking) "A full plenum job... this is going to cost how much!!!!???"

-Acceptance, coming to tems:

Well I figure I'll keep mine going. If it costs me $1k to fix this stuff then that's what 2-3 car payments on a new car, a new FORD.

I'm glad you're still with us!

Heath

P.S. Time to update the "pending" list in your signature line...

[maxnix]

Well, if I don't refine my onw gasoline, then hope Heath has found the injector solution. I would drop the bucks for a Nissan rebuilt in a blink if it were required.

Still can't find the G50 build quality out there for less than $70K. Not even sure I can find it at that price and the thought of insuring and feeding a $100K daily driver just down't seem right to me. Too many yahoos in beaters out there, not to mention just the condition of the highway environment. Seems like a bad risk of capital.

[qship96]

Well, if I don't refine my onw gasoline, then hope Heath has found the injector solution. I would drop the bucks for a Nissan rebuilt in a blink if it were required.

Still can't find the G50 build quality out there for less than $70K. Not even sure I can find it at that price and the thought of insuring and feeding a $100K daily driver just down't seem right to me. Too many yahoos in beaters out there, not to mention just the condition of the highway environment. Seems like a bad risk of capital.

Will you feel differently when you have 250,000 miles on the Q......most likely! I cant see dropping almost 3,000 for new factory injectors/labor on a car with 250,000 miles on it if the replacement injectors will face the same early death due to todays ethanol laced fuel.....time for a modern vehicle designed for todays available fuel.....now if Nissan redesigns the G50 replacement injectors to withstand the ethanol, thats a different decision

[maxnix]

Will you feel differently when you have 250,000 miles on the Q......most likely!

Probably so. But there will be no more oil by then.

As long as the car has no rust, I'll keep it.

[qship96]

Probably so. But there will be no more oil by then.

As long as the car has no rust, I'll keep it.

Do the q45 in Texas get the typical rust in rear wheelwells and rear door dogleg areas? Almost every single one in Md I see has rust in these areas, including mine- only way to permanently cure it is to replace rear quarterpanels,which creates its own set of unique challenges to ensure job is done perfectly.

[maxnix]

Never have seen it. No salt used this far south. Maybe Dallas or the panhandle?

[AlabamaDan]

My local pull a part junkyard had a 1994 Q45..soooo......I went to practice pulling a plenum. Actually, pulling the plenum wasn't all that hard. I treaded it kindly like it was mine and had the plenum off in about an hour. AND actually I think that once you've got all the stuff loose you might could do an injector without pulling it completely off - but I continued. Only the hose on the very back was really difficult to get off.

HOWEVER, I figured while I was there I'd pull an injector (or eight). This is where I experienced problems. You have to pull that little cap off the fuel rail to allow the injectors to come out, some of you know, the ones with STUPID phillips screws holding it down. Well after soaking them in PB a coupe of times, I ended up getting two of the 16 screws out! What happens if this occurs with my Q? Is there a trick because now I'm really nervous? WHY would they do that anyway? What's wrong with a bolt? How would I get them out now? Still not too late to pull the injectors and fuel rails from the cadaver.

[maxnix]

You can replace the screws with SS allen head bolts.

[Q45tech]

X-Out Extractors [<$80] are standard tools in the $10,000 tool kit.

[Dabizzo1]

Dan, you are experiencing exactly the symptoms I had when I first got my Q. I had the very same error codes on mine. Both knock sensors and in my case NUMEROUS injectors at once later, I was back in business. Don't be afraid to do the plenum. I spent a bunch in the first year to put me ahead of the spending curve for at least 2 years, mechanically that is. Unfortunately new oem injectors are pricey, and used/refurbished injectors are a shot in the dark and will only lead to having to pull the plenum more often and sooner. Man if you were closer to me I'd help ya knock it out...I just did #4...it was my last original white top that came with the car, so I figure I got my $$$ worth. Any way you look at it, even replacing all 8 with brand new purple tops from Joe is STILL cheaper than a new car debt. A dealer will charge about $1000 to $1300 to do 1 injector and knock sensors....most of the labor is the plenum pull. In reference to the phillips screws on top of the injectors, use a phillips head that fits the most perfect in there. If it begins to strip, use vise grips to grab the outer circumference edge of the screw head...it worked for me on 1 stubborn screw on 1 of my injectors. By careful not to break the head off...very unlikely,but of course, possible...Keep us posted. Boris

[MinisterofDOOM]

X-Out Extractors [<$80] are standard tools in the $10,000 tool kit.

I would hope that diamond-tipped titanium laser forceps would be a standard tool in the $10,000 tool kit as well.

[AlabamaDan]

You can replace the screws with SS allen head bolts.

Good Tip! SS = Stainless Steel right? Where'd ya get yours and what size?

X-Out Extractors [<$80] are standard tools in the $10,000 tool kit.

Well, my took kit grows little by little, but it didn't cost that much. What about this:

http://www.harborfreight.com/c...95530

or this:

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_1...Tools

Don't be afraid to do the plenum....Any way you look at it, even replacing all 8 with brand new purple tops from Joe is STILL cheaper than a new car debt.

Agreed. Besides loving the Q, that's one reason I keep it on the road, it's cheaper than a new car payment. I'm not terribly afraid of the plenum after having pulled it at the JY. Just careful. I'm also waiting on the results from that thread about how the aftermarket injectors peform.

BTW, all the hoses on that Q at the junkyard were soft and easy to work on. I hope it's the same with mine.

[maxnix]

Good Tip! SS = Stainless Steel right? Where'd ya get yours and what size?

Fastenal, Tacoma Screw, etc.

[goody90q45]

Good Tip! SS = Stainless Steel right? Where'd ya get yours and what size?

Ace Hardware. Not sure what size but bring one bolt with you to match up to a nut and you'll know.
Modified by goody94q45 at 5:36 AM 7/30/2008

[3Q Jay]

Dan- two tips on the phillips screw caps:1. use a 'fresh' #2 phillips. come to think of it, a #1 might be even better--i forget, but-----no galling on the spades!1a. 'seat' the tool in the screw by tapping with the deadblow (lightly).

2. if you still strip out the head, it is easy to put some needle nose on the periphery of the screws and 'wrench' 'em out. in fact, you might want to do this in concert with #1a anyway as a torque multiplier.

glad to hear you are keeping the Q.personally, i have never heard of a purple top (the -67U10 replacement)failing although someone will produce proof i'm sure.silver has 8 purple tops, some are now 4 years (but only 20k miles) old.blacq has all 8 tan top originals, but spent most of her life on benzene.

[goody90q45]

Dan- two tips on the phillips screw caps:1. use a 'fresh' #2 phillips. come to think of it, a #1 might be even better--i forget, but-----no galling on the spades!

I use the same screwdriver but 16" long. You can get good pressure on the screwhead with this.

2. if you still strip out the head, it is easy to put some needle nose on the periphery of the screws and 'wrench' 'em out. in fact, you might want to do this in concert with #1a anyway as a torque multiplier.

Vise grip (locking) needle nose pliers work great also.

Good job Danny practicing on a junker before working on your own Q. I pulled the plenum off 3 parts cars before I ever attempted it on my own Q. Other than that pesky rear hose the rest of the plenum pull is pretty straightforward. When putting it back together short-term memory loss is your biggest enemy.

[AlabamaDan]

I went back to the JY last weekend and worked on that poor old Q again. I was able to drill the heads off those screws and get the little caps off, but then I couldn't get a single injector out. They were so brittle that I tore several of them up. I know that's been a problem here before. Now I'm not as worried about getting the plenum off as I am getting an injector out.

I was forced to drive my Q yesterday and it had "healed" itself. :-) I thought that perhaps I had been given some time. Alas this morning back to the same old problem.

[Haitian_King]

I went back to the JY last weekend and worked on that poor old Q again. I was able to drill the heads off those screws and get the little caps off, but then I couldn't get a single injector out. They were so brittle that I tore several of them up. I know that's been a problem here before. Now I'm not as worried about getting the plenum off as I am getting an injector out.

I was forced to drive my Q yesterday and it had "healed" itself. :-) I thought that perhaps I had been given some time. Alas this morning back to the same old problem.

I know what you mean. I had the same issue for the longest with my #7 injector. I spotted it after my chainguides and valve covers were done. I was all out of time and couldn't take the Q the shop and have it sit for more than a day for a couple of months. I planned on getting everything done as soon as the semester was over. Miraculously, the old Hemi bounce disappeared and the car has a quiet and smooth idle that has persisted all summer. Maybe the Q-gods are affording me this chance to get my stuff together.

I think Heath explained to me that it could have been a problem in the injector internals and the current passing through "fixed" a bad solder. I was warned that it could only be a temporary reprieve though.

[AlabamaDan]

Ah, healed itself again last night after running bad in the afternoon. I wonder what the cause is. Maybe someone can answer....

What exactly happens when an injector goes bad and how can it sometimes work and sometimes not? I had a reading of zero when it wasn't working. Doesn't that mean that some electrical went wrong? If so how can it fix itself?

BTW, I developed this problem after six months of using Costco gas, where I had never used it before. I don't know if it's a conincience or not, but no more Costco gas for my Q!

[maxnix]

90% of the gasoline I use is Costco premium. It has injector cleaner, but who knows what? No problems, even for the MTBE winter blend in Seattle.

[OnTheRoadAgain]

while I was pondering replacing a few or all of the injectors mine started running fine again on it's own;

now seemingly after a tank of BP gas, the dead miss is back again.

I've otherwise been using mostly Citgo

time to make an appt I guess.

[Q451990]

I think the self healing is probably just an intermittant connection that opens when the injector swells a little, and then makes contact again when something shifts a little. If you measure the resistance, you will probably find a drastic increase on the injector that "self healed"

Dan, I am in the market for a set of the Phase 2 injector rails. If by chance you go back to the pick-n-pull in the next couple of weeks, could you find out how much they would want for them? New from Joe is about $175. Wouldn't mind getting my hands on the injector subharness too if it's not completely shot...

Thanks!

Heath

[maxnix]

now seemingly after a tank of BP gas, the dead miss is back again.

I've otherwise been using mostly Citgo

time to make an appt I guess.

No, time to go back to Costco or a Tier 1 Premium. Citgo, ARCO, BP, Valero are to be avoided.

[Haitian_King]

No, time to go back to Costco or a Tier 1 Premium. Citgo, ARCO, BP, Valero are to be avoided.

My car seems to enjoy Gulf Premium and Shell V-Power. Apparently, it's lost the taste for 92 octane. I may have to start looking around for higher than 93 soon.

Or it could just be me being weird and hypersensitive.

[OnTheRoadAgain]

what is a "Tier 1 Premium"? and I do not have any Costcos in my area?

[snobrder]

what is a "Tier 1 Premium"? and I do not have any Costcos in my area?

http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html