So does the $2500 BAD Q run??? Or would it be a resto project??
Ill be keeping my eyes on this thread.... COuld be a HUGE development for the Q45...
Forced Induction Q45 Discussion
AZhitman wrote:... buy the car for $2500 and have it shipped to AZ ($700 shipping) ...
DANG YOU Greg !!! I got $3000 burning a hole in my pocket, okay it's for '04 maintenance and a T3 visit around Easter, but it's hard not to think what if ...
AZhitman wrote:... What I'd prefer to see is more than one of us benefit from it. Any ideas?
Where's that NICO "emergency fund" to buy trhings like this??
<my NICO "operating fund" contribution is on the way>
What an interesting thread, especially AZ's announcement.
In my first year with the project Q, I scorched the heads on a forth of July racing weekend at Summit Point WV. Outdoor temuratures were over 100. Then two years ago, again in July I did worse more damage to the engine in an event at Watkins Glen NY.
So, I'm wondering if one does SC and use the vehicle as I have done, am I not just asking for further damage?
When I scorched the heads I consider replacing engine, trans and chip to that of a Mustang. One of the fellow Decisive Driving instructors has the "Corral" web site. He was encouraging me -- and provided the shop capable of doing it.
Priced at $15,000 or more, I elected not to. I then spent a year to get new heads honed and installed. Since I only have 4,000 or so miles on the car since that effort, I'm not sure that I made the right decision.
I am considering going that route if/when I move on to my second project car.
:icesangel
In my first year with the project Q, I scorched the heads on a forth of July racing weekend at Summit Point WV. Outdoor temuratures were over 100. Then two years ago, again in July I did worse more damage to the engine in an event at Watkins Glen NY.
So, I'm wondering if one does SC and use the vehicle as I have done, am I not just asking for further damage?
When I scorched the heads I consider replacing engine, trans and chip to that of a Mustang. One of the fellow Decisive Driving instructors has the "Corral" web site. He was encouraging me -- and provided the shop capable of doing it.
Priced at $15,000 or more, I elected not to. I then spent a year to get new heads honed and installed. Since I only have 4,000 or so miles on the car since that effort, I'm not sure that I made the right decision.
I am considering going that route if/when I move on to my second project car.
:icesangel
dkill, I understand the appeal, but if I'm going to continue to blow engines I would rather that the replacement be a $600 drop in that I can do in a couple hours. These months-long rebuilds are getting old.
One deciding factor was that I wanted to stay "pure" to Infiniti. Now I know I'm not completely pure, but mostly am as most mods are Z parts.
Duaine
One deciding factor was that I wanted to stay "pure" to Infiniti. Now I know I'm not completely pure, but mostly am as most mods are Z parts.
Duaine
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AZhitman
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- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
Wes - No pics - It's a grey 92 Q. Very nondescript.
Brian - Thanks much!
Duaine - It's all a matter of perspective. If I wind up with this unit, and the project goes nowhere, the I intend to run it with a small FMIC and 4-5 lbs of boost. But it's like dkill says - This is an important project, and it needs some committed backing.
Let's scour the boards and find someone who'd be interested in doing some of the actual fabrication work... Someone HAS to have a connection with a company that's got SC experience. I may get in touch with ProCharger on this thing...
Brian - Thanks much!
Duaine - It's all a matter of perspective. If I wind up with this unit, and the project goes nowhere, the I intend to run it with a small FMIC and 4-5 lbs of boost. But it's like dkill says - This is an important project, and it needs some committed backing.
Let's scour the boards and find someone who'd be interested in doing some of the actual fabrication work... Someone HAS to have a connection with a company that's got SC experience. I may get in touch with ProCharger on this thing...
-
AZhitman
- Administrator
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- Joined: Mon Apr 29, 2002 2:04 am
- Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 Z32, 91 GTi-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14, 23 Z.
- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
Cool - That makes three of us. We need a couple more to make it feasible... On my meager income, with 3 kids, a busted arse 150K mile Suburban in the driveway and paying for a Masters' program out-of-pocket, I don't want to get stuck here....
Let's see if we can drum up some more support, preferably from a place that can do some fabricating!
Let's see if we can drum up some more support, preferably from a place that can do some fabricating!
As for S/C this is my field, having four S/C cars myself. Did a custom GS400 four years ago. Fabricating a kit is not to hard. The real problem is then finding someone at a foundry to start casting the bracket. Then how many brackets are you going to sell? How many do you make.
As for which S/C for the car. You have to get in touch with the manufacture of the S/C and ask for a compressor map with the adibatic efficency of the compressor. From this you can figure what the step up will be for the S/C. and voila a S/C for your car.
Usually on a stock car try to keep to 6lbs of boost. Usually the head gasket and fuel system becomes the limiting factor. After that the ignition becomes the weak link.
Later Tony
As for which S/C for the car. You have to get in touch with the manufacture of the S/C and ask for a compressor map with the adibatic efficency of the compressor. From this you can figure what the step up will be for the S/C. and voila a S/C for your car.
Usually on a stock car try to keep to 6lbs of boost. Usually the head gasket and fuel system becomes the limiting factor. After that the ignition becomes the weak link.
Later Tony
It is great to see more people looking to boost their Q's.
I don't know if this helps, but the guy who built the BAD Q45 for Rex is Geoff Knight at Knight Tubo's. He seems very knowlegable in my dealings with him.
http://www.boosthead.com
Just check that Geoff and Rex did not have any falling out in the building of the BAD Q45.
For the record, Rex and his BAD Q45 was the inspiration for what I have done to my Q45.
Regards
AGM
I don't know if this helps, but the guy who built the BAD Q45 for Rex is Geoff Knight at Knight Tubo's. He seems very knowlegable in my dealings with him.
http://www.boosthead.com
Just check that Geoff and Rex did not have any falling out in the building of the BAD Q45.
For the record, Rex and his BAD Q45 was the inspiration for what I have done to my Q45.
Regards
AGM
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Interesting, but I have to wonder how a non-operating ESC would affect the intake manifold tuning on a car like the Q45 with the VH45DE. After all, the turbo can run for only 15 seconds and then recharges for several minutes (30?).AGM wrote:It is great to see more people looking to boost their Q's.
I don't know if this helps, but the guy who built the BAD Q45 for Rex is Geoff Knight at Knight Tubo's. He seems very knowlegable in my dealings with him.
http://www.boosthead.com
As they are not available for engines with over 2.5L capacity, it is a moot point for us.
His website implies he has gone in this direction because of the futility and expense of adding turbos to NA engines while maintaining reliability. That certainly seems rational.
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AZhitman
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- Car: 58 L210, 63 Bluebird RHD, 64 NL320, 65 SPL310, 66 411 RHD, 67 WRL411, 68 510 SR20, 75 280Z RB25, 77 620 SR20, 79 B310, 90 Z32, 91 GTi-R, 92 Silvia Qs, 98 S14, 23 Z.
- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
DAE, tony, AGM, dkill, duaine and others:
Here's the deal: the car is going to be bought by the CA guy. However, in exchange for me signing over my rights of ownership, I will get the SC shipped to me upon arrival in LA. Kind of a "strongarm tactic", but it's actually gonna work out better for me and the CA guy.
From there, I need to decide who to ship it to first. Let's start putting our heads together and see who we think gives us the best chance of having a working SC at the end of it all.
Shall I contact Geoff?
AGM, you and I need to discuss some exhaust issues anyway - Would you call me at your convenience? (602) 828-8908.
Here's the deal: the car is going to be bought by the CA guy. However, in exchange for me signing over my rights of ownership, I will get the SC shipped to me upon arrival in LA. Kind of a "strongarm tactic", but it's actually gonna work out better for me and the CA guy.
From there, I need to decide who to ship it to first. Let's start putting our heads together and see who we think gives us the best chance of having a working SC at the end of it all.
Shall I contact Geoff?
AGM, you and I need to discuss some exhaust issues anyway - Would you call me at your convenience? (602) 828-8908.
AZ im correct in saying that the intake manifold has been fabed already, because if im not mistaken this is a roots style charger? also how is the intake pipping done or are we not at that point yet, just curious because any pressure thats blown off via a blowoff valve has to be put back into the system after the MAF so the ECU wont go nuts.
I talked to a reputable shop today about a set of headers for the Q, they would need my car for a while and said that the first set would cost about $800 for R&D, sets after that would go for about $650-$750. They have done some nice pieces for the SR20 guys in CT, they just made a sweet header for a SR20VE swap.
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AZhitman
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- Location: Surprise, Arizona
- Contact:
Here is the email I received from the fellow in CA who wants to purchsae the car:
Greg,
I just wanted to drop you a line and let you know in writing what my intentions are with Rex Birkmires S.C Q45. This is a subject that’s been keeping me up in bed lately and a project I cant wait to start on. I think I have explained over the phone to you my goals with a Q 45 and the SCTA but just for the hell of it Ill go over again and hopefully you may get as enthused about this project as I am.
The S.C.T.A is an acronym that that stands for The Southern California Timing Association. The S.C.T.A is the governing body that monitors and records all land speed records set at the Muroc and El Mirage dry lake bed as well as the Bonneville salt flats (the fact that Bonneville is in Utah and SCTA monitors it still mystifies me maybe next time I talk to Lee at SCTA he will clear that up for me.) In any case the SCTA is the definitive authority on all Major land speed records including the world land speed runs of Craig Breedlove and the current record holder Andy Green at 763 mph set in 1997. In any case my objective isn’t quite as lofty but would still be a respectable accomplishment nonetheless. I would like to set the record for the B.G.P.C (Blown Gas Production Class) “D” engine category. The best part is the record has yet to be set and the minimum requirement to qualify is 200 mph. I don’t feel 200 mph is at all an unreasonable number to expect from a first gen Q45 in proper condition. In my conversations with Rex he informed me of a customer who mailed him a speeding ticket who had been clocked doing 185 mph with only a JWT intake and a reprogrammed ECU. I think that a Supercharged Q45 with the right tweaks here and there would be a great car to take this category. This leads me to the fact that the one performance mod that would take us to the level to be able to attempt this is the Supercharger system that Rex somewhat developed. If a Q45 can reach speeds of 185 mph with its rev limiter removed and an altered air/fuel mixture then imagine what a forced induction engine would do!
My intention is to basically buy Rex’s Q45 and use the vehicle as a spare parts car and then install the blower on my own project Q45 and see what we can get it to do. I have communicated to you Greg that I would have no problem with having you send the plumbing out to an outside shop to look into the costs etc of building and refabricating that portion within a reasonable amount of time. In my opinion if it’s your intention or anyone else’s to obtain and install a Supercharger it could be done for relatively very little cost. Basically it would entail having a mold made for the plumbing unit (aprox $1500) and if you can find investors, lets say 3 then that cost would be $500. The cost of actually making units once the mold has been made is literally the cost of the raw metal and labor fees the shop would incur to cast each unit. Once that’s done you would need a reprogrammed ECU which I’m sure JWT would be happy to oblige at the cost of their regular ECU programs if they were to receive multiple orders at around $700? And last but not least the actual blower which is an Eaton M90, The blower is probably one of the most common of all time and was included in a number of production supercharged vehicles including the supercharged Ford Thunderbird. I have seen Eaton M90’s on ebay routinely for under $250 used but in good condition. Out the door you can probably have yourself a supercharged Q45 if you can find a few folks that are interested in doing it with you for about $1500 or possibly even less.
I am really exited about this project Greg and look forward to ironing out the bugs in this thing together; I’m going to be picking your brain a little for as much exhaust info as I can and want thank you in advance. Let me know ASAP about your conversation with Rex and hopefully we can get the ball rolling on this thing soon.
Greg,
I just wanted to drop you a line and let you know in writing what my intentions are with Rex Birkmires S.C Q45. This is a subject that’s been keeping me up in bed lately and a project I cant wait to start on. I think I have explained over the phone to you my goals with a Q 45 and the SCTA but just for the hell of it Ill go over again and hopefully you may get as enthused about this project as I am.
The S.C.T.A is an acronym that that stands for The Southern California Timing Association. The S.C.T.A is the governing body that monitors and records all land speed records set at the Muroc and El Mirage dry lake bed as well as the Bonneville salt flats (the fact that Bonneville is in Utah and SCTA monitors it still mystifies me maybe next time I talk to Lee at SCTA he will clear that up for me.) In any case the SCTA is the definitive authority on all Major land speed records including the world land speed runs of Craig Breedlove and the current record holder Andy Green at 763 mph set in 1997. In any case my objective isn’t quite as lofty but would still be a respectable accomplishment nonetheless. I would like to set the record for the B.G.P.C (Blown Gas Production Class) “D” engine category. The best part is the record has yet to be set and the minimum requirement to qualify is 200 mph. I don’t feel 200 mph is at all an unreasonable number to expect from a first gen Q45 in proper condition. In my conversations with Rex he informed me of a customer who mailed him a speeding ticket who had been clocked doing 185 mph with only a JWT intake and a reprogrammed ECU. I think that a Supercharged Q45 with the right tweaks here and there would be a great car to take this category. This leads me to the fact that the one performance mod that would take us to the level to be able to attempt this is the Supercharger system that Rex somewhat developed. If a Q45 can reach speeds of 185 mph with its rev limiter removed and an altered air/fuel mixture then imagine what a forced induction engine would do!
My intention is to basically buy Rex’s Q45 and use the vehicle as a spare parts car and then install the blower on my own project Q45 and see what we can get it to do. I have communicated to you Greg that I would have no problem with having you send the plumbing out to an outside shop to look into the costs etc of building and refabricating that portion within a reasonable amount of time. In my opinion if it’s your intention or anyone else’s to obtain and install a Supercharger it could be done for relatively very little cost. Basically it would entail having a mold made for the plumbing unit (aprox $1500) and if you can find investors, lets say 3 then that cost would be $500. The cost of actually making units once the mold has been made is literally the cost of the raw metal and labor fees the shop would incur to cast each unit. Once that’s done you would need a reprogrammed ECU which I’m sure JWT would be happy to oblige at the cost of their regular ECU programs if they were to receive multiple orders at around $700? And last but not least the actual blower which is an Eaton M90, The blower is probably one of the most common of all time and was included in a number of production supercharged vehicles including the supercharged Ford Thunderbird. I have seen Eaton M90’s on ebay routinely for under $250 used but in good condition. Out the door you can probably have yourself a supercharged Q45 if you can find a few folks that are interested in doing it with you for about $1500 or possibly even less.
I am really exited about this project Greg and look forward to ironing out the bugs in this thing together; I’m going to be picking your brain a little for as much exhaust info as I can and want thank you in advance. Let me know ASAP about your conversation with Rex and hopefully we can get the ball rolling on this thing soon.
-
maxnix
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- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
With enough torque(via the supercharger), a strong transmission, and probaly a differential cooler, and a better radiator, etc. an aerodynamically modified one should do it with the stock gearing ratios. Should top out near 215mph of @ 6500rpm.dkill wrote:Greg, I hope he plans on doing something about the gearing... I don't the stock Q gears will take the car 200+ IMHO... Anyway, we can get a group buy on the same setup..
Quote »With enough torque(via the supercharger), a strong transmission, and probaly a differential cooler, and a better radiator, etc. an aerodynamically modified one should do it with the stock gearing ratios. Should top out near 215mph of @ 6500rpm.[/quote]
It will take a WHOLE lot more than that to get a Q to go 215 mph, its not simply that easy, it will take over 550 HP to the ground, and not to mention the aerodynamics involved as well as the safety equiptment the vehicle will need, you cant even guess how fast the Q will be once charged all you can do is crunch the numbers, and still that wont be accurate due to the fact of CD, atmospheric pressure, weather conditions, tire size, etc etc etc. We know its gonna be fast, but not 200 mph fast,more like ill kick your 540I/ M5 A&% fast
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Did you ever wonder what would happen if you put a 650-horsepower Infiniti Indy V8 racing engine in a production Infiniti Q45?
Well, Infiniti Motorsports Manager Frank Honsowetz was curious about the idea and enlisted the support of racing enthusiast Larry Detrich to build this hybrid. After a year of preparation, this modified performance luxury sedan is ready to race.
Its proving ground: The salt flats of northwestern Utah, where Detrich will drive the car, campaigning for a land-speed record at the 2000 Bonneville Speed Week, Aug. 12-18.
"When people ask me, 'Why are you doing this?' my answer is, 'Why wouldn't we do this?'" said Honsowetz. "The Infiniti Indy V8 is the big brother of the engine found in a Q45. We want to see what the car can do with this racing engine. I think it would be pretty exciting to see an Infiniti Q45 go close to the same top speed as an Indy car."
The project started more than a year ago, when Detrich, 59, a longtime SCCA club racer, had dinner with Indianapolis 500 veteran Lyn St. James and her husband, Roger Lessman. The topic of dinner conversation eventually turned to land-speed racing, a lifelong passion of Lessman's.
Detrich was thrilled with the thought of racing on the historical salt flats and getting his name in the record books. St. James, a former Infiniti Indy driver, and Lessman suggested contacting Honsowetz about the project.
"When I called Frank, I was pleased to find out that he already had the idea on his mind," said Detrich, a retired computer-consulting firm owner from Denver. "A few months later, we received an Infiniti Q45 and a motor from Ed Pink Racing Engines."
Pink builds Infiniti engines for the Indy Racing Northern Light Series. Eddie Cheever used a Pink-built engine to record Infiniti's first victory in Indy Racing competition in June at Pikes Peak International Raceway.
Detrich and friend Mark Mercer, a veteran Indy-style crew chief, spent the summer of 1999 preparing the Infiniti Q45 to the specifications outlined by the Southern California Timing Association (SCTA) for the Gas Coupe/Sedan class.
The workload included fitting the 4.0-liter, 32-valve, dual-overhead cam Infiniti Indy V8 engine to a new drivetrain and adding the necessary safety enhancements. In preparing the car for the run on the salt flats, the crew was mindful of keeping the stock components wherever possible.
"After working on this car and seeing how it is built, the all-new Q45 has been added to my shopping list for next year," said Detrich. "People will be surprised at how much of the original car is still there."
The team held its first test with the Infiniti Q45 with Indy Racing power in July 2000 on the 1.3-mile course at the El Mirage dry lake bed in Southern California. After a few trial runs to setup the fuel mapping for a change from methanol to gasoline, Detrich ran the car at 10,000 rpm in fourth gear, an estimated speed of 175 mph.
"The car settled down and handled very well in our test runs," Detrich said. "It tracks as well as it does because of the sophisticated factory suspension system. We should be quick right out of the box on our first run at Bonneville."
Detrich expects to easily surpass his 175-mph time on the longer Bonneville course during land-speed racing's premier event. To get in the history books, he will make a bid for the 188.114-mph record for the E/GC class, set in 1994.
The SCTA/BNI Bonneville Speed Week, held at the salt flats located 100 miles west of Salt Lake City, near Wendover, Utah, kicks off at noon Aug. 12. Racing will continue until Aug. 18 with results posted daily at http://www.scta-bni.org.
It will take a WHOLE lot more than that to get a Q to go 215 mph, its not simply that easy, it will take over 550 HP to the ground, and not to mention the aerodynamics involved as well as the safety equiptment the vehicle will need, you cant even guess how fast the Q will be once charged all you can do is crunch the numbers, and still that wont be accurate due to the fact of CD, atmospheric pressure, weather conditions, tire size, etc etc etc. We know its gonna be fast, but not 200 mph fast,more like ill kick your 540I/ M5 A&% fast
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Did you ever wonder what would happen if you put a 650-horsepower Infiniti Indy V8 racing engine in a production Infiniti Q45?
Well, Infiniti Motorsports Manager Frank Honsowetz was curious about the idea and enlisted the support of racing enthusiast Larry Detrich to build this hybrid. After a year of preparation, this modified performance luxury sedan is ready to race.
Its proving ground: The salt flats of northwestern Utah, where Detrich will drive the car, campaigning for a land-speed record at the 2000 Bonneville Speed Week, Aug. 12-18.
"When people ask me, 'Why are you doing this?' my answer is, 'Why wouldn't we do this?'" said Honsowetz. "The Infiniti Indy V8 is the big brother of the engine found in a Q45. We want to see what the car can do with this racing engine. I think it would be pretty exciting to see an Infiniti Q45 go close to the same top speed as an Indy car."
The project started more than a year ago, when Detrich, 59, a longtime SCCA club racer, had dinner with Indianapolis 500 veteran Lyn St. James and her husband, Roger Lessman. The topic of dinner conversation eventually turned to land-speed racing, a lifelong passion of Lessman's.
Detrich was thrilled with the thought of racing on the historical salt flats and getting his name in the record books. St. James, a former Infiniti Indy driver, and Lessman suggested contacting Honsowetz about the project.
"When I called Frank, I was pleased to find out that he already had the idea on his mind," said Detrich, a retired computer-consulting firm owner from Denver. "A few months later, we received an Infiniti Q45 and a motor from Ed Pink Racing Engines."
Pink builds Infiniti engines for the Indy Racing Northern Light Series. Eddie Cheever used a Pink-built engine to record Infiniti's first victory in Indy Racing competition in June at Pikes Peak International Raceway.
Detrich and friend Mark Mercer, a veteran Indy-style crew chief, spent the summer of 1999 preparing the Infiniti Q45 to the specifications outlined by the Southern California Timing Association (SCTA) for the Gas Coupe/Sedan class.
The workload included fitting the 4.0-liter, 32-valve, dual-overhead cam Infiniti Indy V8 engine to a new drivetrain and adding the necessary safety enhancements. In preparing the car for the run on the salt flats, the crew was mindful of keeping the stock components wherever possible.
"After working on this car and seeing how it is built, the all-new Q45 has been added to my shopping list for next year," said Detrich. "People will be surprised at how much of the original car is still there."
The team held its first test with the Infiniti Q45 with Indy Racing power in July 2000 on the 1.3-mile course at the El Mirage dry lake bed in Southern California. After a few trial runs to setup the fuel mapping for a change from methanol to gasoline, Detrich ran the car at 10,000 rpm in fourth gear, an estimated speed of 175 mph.
"The car settled down and handled very well in our test runs," Detrich said. "It tracks as well as it does because of the sophisticated factory suspension system. We should be quick right out of the box on our first run at Bonneville."
Detrich expects to easily surpass his 175-mph time on the longer Bonneville course during land-speed racing's premier event. To get in the history books, he will make a bid for the 188.114-mph record for the E/GC class, set in 1994.
The SCTA/BNI Bonneville Speed Week, held at the salt flats located 100 miles west of Salt Lake City, near Wendover, Utah, kicks off at noon Aug. 12. Racing will continue until Aug. 18 with results posted daily at http://www.scta-bni.org.