For All Who Own Coilovers!!!

[dreamsOfSkylines]

Spring/Shock combos tend to blow out pretty quickly because your lowering the ride via the springs which reduces the remaining shock travel. Or you could get D2's for the same price and lower your car via the lower mounting points (the correct way). Gee I wonder whats the better option...

[Cyberkreig]

the only way to make your control arms parallel with the ground again is by moving the control arm mounting points up (which would require some cutting/welding in the front and a custom rear subframe).

You would be right about the geometry thing, right up until you said this.

This is just flat out wrong. Wrong wrong and more wrong. IN the case of an S13, there is no such thing as a front upper control arm. Adjusting the camber via camber plates fixes any geometry problems. As for the rear, Project silvia sells Rear upper control arms with off center bolt holes. This puts the arm back in parallel with the ground. Problem solved.

For reference, here are the arms. http://www.projectnissan.com/P...t=609 These appear to be revised since I purchased them, but its easy to see that someone could weld on plates and drill new holes.

[Cyberkreig]

i only post here cuz anand asked me toyou guys seriously need to get a clue

Ohlins doesnt even redo their damper for you unless you are a race team..

as blessed as we are to have your information, i am sure we could do without your attitude.

Thats right, No company in the world rebuilds dampeners to suit a custom ordered spring rate. They dont adjust the piston rate, the bound or the rebound.

However, dampeners such as Tien HE are adjustable. They dont need to be rebuilt to match a different spring rate, matching the spring rate is as simple as turning a small knob.

[daniel]

attitude is because i am telling you guys the truthand the best way to go at a situation

from experiencenot intarweb experiencebut cut knuckle experience

and you guys are like wtf mate..you're wrong.

when in fact i am not.

its pretty annoying.

[dreamsOfSkylines]

You would be right about the geometry thing, right up until you said this.

This is just flat out wrong. Wrong wrong and more wrong. IN the case of an S13, there is no such thing as a front upper control arm. Adjusting the camber via camber plates fixes any geometry problems. As for the rear, Project silvia sells Rear upper control arms with off center bolt holes. This puts the arm back in parallel with the ground. Problem solved.

For reference, here are the arms. http://www.projectnissan.com/P...t=609 These appear to be revised since I purchased them, but its easy to see that someone could weld on plates and drill new holes.

I never said there was a front upper control arm, sorry I forgot to mention that adjustable pillowball mounts are needed to adjust front camber. My point was that when you drop your car several inches then your control arms (just the lower ones in the front) are not going to be parrallel to the ground any more, which is optimal. You would need some ridicuously off-center bolt holes to correct a 3 or 4 inch drop...

[dreamsOfSkylines]

attitude is because i am telling you guys the truthand the best way to go at a situation

from experiencenot intarweb experiencebut cut knuckle experience

and you guys are like wtf mate..you're wrong.

when in fact i am not.

its pretty annoying.

Suggesting spring/shock combo over coilovers is wrong. AGX and Konis are designed for stock ride height, lowering springs will often shorten their lifetime considerably. Especially with D2's currently available at the same price there is simply no reason to suggest a spring/shock combo.

[nlzmo400r]

You would be right about the geometry thing, right up until you said this.

This is just flat out wrong. Wrong wrong and more wrong. IN the case of an S13, there is no such thing as a front upper control arm. Adjusting the camber via camber plates fixes any geometry problems. As for the rear, Project silvia sells Rear upper control arms with off center bolt holes. This puts the arm back in parallel with the ground. Problem solved.

For reference, here are the arms. http://www.projectnissan.com/P...t=609 These appear to be revised since I purchased them, but its easy to see that someone could weld on plates and drill new holes.

exactly :withstup

[Nismo_Freak]

dude...d2 coilover is good for the front like i've said

BUT YOU CANNOT SLAM THE REAR ENOUGH

the front is good...but you just cant get a good ride height so you drive sloppy with them...

as for the GB

get the GB then i'll get you the price..maybe i can swing 1075 or something..nothing for sure till you got 10

If you lower the rear, you must lower the front to some percentage, you will find this when you go to counterweight the vehicle. When you are lowering the front (which is a macpherson strut design) you will be increasing roll couple and lowering the roll center of the car faster than the COG. This requires less static negative camber (which the camber plates can afford), and a higher spring rate (which the HE's afford). However now you have effectively lowered the car too much for the spring rate to be at it's most effective (so you order HE's with 10 / 8 spring rates). Now you have a problem if you put Hoosier slicks on the car, because you now have to create camber in order for the tire to be at it's most stable. Well since you have little suspension travel you have to make it 2.5 - 3.0 static negative. Which reduces not only your lower speed handling ability but the car's braking and accelerating ability. So you go out and buy front lower control arms to help reduce the amount of roll couple. Now you have less pitch in the car and the spring rate is too high so the car skates or understeers.

Moral is that slamming a street car or even a car that might see track time isn't always the best method. Racing vehicles that are very low to the ground never see street usage, nor do they have much factory componentry, they are completely worked over cars.

[hannibal]

I'm trying to decide if I really need coilovers in the first place. The comments about shocks wearing out when used with lowering springs kinda leads me back to coilovers. I could care less about eliminating wheel gap, I just want better handling.Is 8/6 or even 9/7 the stiffest you would use on a daily driven street car??NismoFreak, i know you suggested Tein HE's. You have any experience with JIC coilovers??

[Nismo_Freak]

Can we get back to the coilover comparison??I'm trying to decide if I really need coilovers in the first place. The comments about shocks wearing out when used with lowering springs kinda leads me back to coilovers. I could care less about eliminating wheel gap, I just want better handling.Is 8/6 or even 9/7 the stiffest you would use on a daily driven street car??

The only person that can tell you the answer to your first question is you.

Do you want good handling or excellent handling at the cost of ride quality. Do you want adjustability, do you want to be competitive, what are you willing to spend, etc.

If you want performance, coilovers. If you want decent handling and a smooth ride, springs and struts/shocks are your best bet.

6/5 is a stiff enough street spring rate.

9/7 is worthless without sufficient tire.

[Nismo_Freak]

Forgot to add... JIC is ok, I wouldn't suggest them over Tein, especially for the price of Tein.

I suggest the HE's because they are an excellent setup for a solid price, and are backed by Tein, which is an excellent suspension manufacturer.

There is better, but Tein is a quality maker.

[Veriest1]

The reason I didn't end up with JIC coilovers is because they have to be rebuilt in Japan. Teins are rebuilt in California so the turn around time won't leave the car stranded by international shipping.

I was very impressed with Teins build quality, packaging, and documentation. However I'm not impressed with the multitude of stickers they sent... if I ever see a car with all of them on it I'm going to cry.

[Dori Dori]

Tein is the bomb!

(I voted for Jic in this category though).

[daniel]

thats all great and all book theory you got therebut

we replace ever arm on our cars anywaysoooo track and everything is adjustable

and i was talking to a lot of other drivers we were talking about ride height and we both agreed that the lower you go the better...trust me you dont wanna drift with a high car.

90% of my advice is geared towards drift(no pun intended! HAH!)trust me dude

i have a lot of first hand, hands on experience when it comes to setting up cars for drift

and you want the car to be as low as possible...on my friend Brian's S14 we could barely put a pack of cigarettes under the car..and he drives around the street like that..its fine.

im glad you can repeat basic suspension tune stuff though..

[jdmfreak]

I think driving a car that low to the ground is just asking for trouble. But maybe that's just me.

[daniel]

dudewhoever told you JIC is rebuilt in japan

haha

wow

just send them to Ziel they will rebuild them.also

I would get dampers in this order if i was on a budget starting from low to high (i have ridden these)

1. D2 (good if you HAVE to have something)2. Silk Road RM/A83. Buddy Club 4. JIC FLTA2(RS) - larger piston and shorter stroke shock body5. Cusco 02R

[daniel]

man if you knew me in person it would be different

forums are just numbers and ****seriouslyget over yourself

[SmithSR]

dudewhoever told you JIC is rebuilt in japan

haha

wow

just send them to Ziel they will rebuild them.also

I would get dampers in this order if i was on a budget starting from low to high (i have ridden these)

1. D2 (good if you HAVE to have something)2. Silk Road RM/A83. Buddy Club 4. JIC FLTA2(RS) - larger piston and shorter stroke shock body5. Cusco 02R

^This is a great tip and a useful guide for a prospective buyer. Thanks Daniel!

[MaineExport]

Thats right, No company in the world rebuilds dampeners to suit a custom ordered spring rate. They dont adjust the piston rate, the bound or the rebound.

Absolutely NOT true.

The Works shock company builds custom single, dual, and triple rate springs with shocks that are built specifically for not only each individual spring rate... but rider weight and machine center of gravity as well. Yes, they are for race quads... but they DO build shocks to custom match a number of variables.

I don't know of a specific company that does the same for race cars or street cars... but I am certain that some of the major race teams have everything custom built. I've never looked into it only because I'm not pretentious or arrogant enough to think I would need such a custom tuned product for my car. And I don't think anybody here would EVER be a competative enough driver in a series that pays enough to make a living at... that they might justify such a product. Anyone at this level that thinks they need that kind of performance... is just self stroking!

In a nut shell... if you can afford coilovers... don't waste money on a spring/strut combo. I don't think anybody here (except daniel) would argue that coils are not an all around better alternative. They are a hell of alot more product for the money. The only argument FOR the spring/strut combo is a softer ride... but if that's what you want... get a softer rate spring on your coils.

[Veriest1]

dudewhoever told you JIC is rebuilt in japan

That would be MVP Motorsports and http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....uild.

I'm not sure how trustworthy the link is but MVP knows what they're talking about.

[daniel]

Maine-

I would arguethat this guy should save his money and not get full on coilovers. if he wont use all the features why have theM?

veriest1

Ziel in downey rebuilds JIC

[MaineExport]

Maine-

I would arguethat this guy should save his money and not get full on coilovers. if he wont use all the features why have theM?

Simply because for equal or LESS than the price of a spring/strut combo he can get a set of D2's or K-Sports. I can't imagine a logical argument that would conclude that coilovers are worse than having two mis-matched sets of products. For the same money, you might as well get all the "options" even if you're not going to use them. Vehicle resale value is increased (if you sell it to the right person), performance is generally (if not always) better, and you are getting MUCH more product for the money.

It just seems foolish to me to spend $650+ on a spring strut combo, when you can get coils for the same money.

Also... the ease of installation is enough to make the coilovers WELL worth the price. They literally bolt up in an hour if you are using typical weekend warrior tools. If you have access to a real shop... they install in about 20 minutes. If you go with the spring/strut route you've got to compress the springs usually, and in MANY circumstances you need to modify the shock spring perches to accomodate the springs.

[jdmfreak]

"modify the shock spring perches to accomodate the springs"

What do you mean by this. Ive never heard of this before.

[240sxHitman]

wheres a good place to get sum D2 coilovers?

[crzycav86]

trixracing... <--banner on the left

Those are the k-sport, which are the exact same thing.. just sold under a different name.

[MaineExport]

"modify the shock spring perches to accomodate the springs"

What do you mean by this. Ive never heard of this before.

It means that in many circumstances you have to cut the spring perch on the shock body to allow the spring to seat properly. It happens quite frequently and it's just simply a bad idea. As I mentioned earlier, when you buy a spring/strut combo you are joining two products, designed by two different companies, and NOT designed to work in conjunction with eachother. This generally means they don't FIT together 100% correctly. When you buy coilovers you are getting ONE product that is DESIGNED to work as a cohesive unit.

[240sxHitman]

also when i get coilovers will they clear my stock tires or will spacers be needed, even tho i would get new rims and tires eventually

[ruf-jason]

attitude is because i am telling you guys the truthand the best way to go at a situation

from experiencenot intarweb experiencebut cut knuckle experience

and you guys are like wtf mate..you're wrong.

when in fact i am not.

its pretty annoying.

all we are saying is relate your OWN personal experiance, not just say NO, or offer alternatives like outside firms that will do what is being asked, like RoadRace Engeneering, Archer MotorSports, etc.

[nlzmo400r]

also when i get coilovers will they clear my stock tires or will spacers be needed, even tho i would get new rims and tires eventually

chances are you'll have to get new rims/tires. I have the stock SE rims w/ 2o5/5o/r15's and ill need atleast a 5mm spacer to clear coulovers. I'll probably just get 8mm spacers and longer wheelstuds (which all together is about another $175-22o)

[MaineExport]

I have no need for spacers with either sets of my tires/wheels.

Stock 15's with 215/50's fit great. (track)Kazera 16's with 225/50's fit great. (daily drivers)

I suppose it depends on the particular coilover, but I know D2's are supposed to fit with stock wheels in every application.