F1's KA Flywheel from eBay.

[xTearsFallForeverx]

I run a Fidanza flywheel and an Ebay underdrive pulley. The pulley didnt fit quite right so i had to shave a little from the ID of the pulley to get it to fit on my crank. After installing both of these I felt an instant notice in acceleration due to so much weight being taken on the rotating assembly. The revs are much faster and response is unreal.. and im not even turbo yet.. or dohc. That flywheel looks damn near as good as my $350 Fidanza.

[Bigvinnie]

Fidanza cost 300 shipped and the replaceable plate is about 60-70 bux each time you replace it.

That isn't entirely true.I bought my fidanza with a competition clutch. My fidanza came out to $250 shipped.....Fidanza is a far superior product with it's friction plate hands down.When a clutch disc rubs against aluminum it's like wood onto sand paper, and it warps twice as fast as steel.The clutch will only use half it's life span on a warped aluminum friction plate.Fidanza is a true 11LBs by the way.....

[Bigvinnie]

Spin a 6" metal disk that weighs 2lbs and you can stop it easily with your hand. Then spin a 2lb bike wheel at the same speed and grab the tire - plan on a broken hand.

Different size shapes of the same weight have nothing to do with it.Why do people buy big brake set up's to stop earlier and to keep brake pads cooler????I think leverage comes into play.As far as fly wheels are concerned that are lighter in mass, it takes away weighted inertia which increases aspiration at higher RPM's showing a small gain in peak power. It also allows for better engine control when downshifting and braking. Whether or not the weight of the majority of the mass is placed to the center or rim of the fly wheel doesn't matter it still the same over all weight that drives a transmission which transfers inertia/power to the drive shaft that is no more than 2" in diameter last I recall. The majority of power loss/degradation from the drive train comes from the drive shaft/transmission anyways, not the fly wheel.

[eazye2000]

When a clutch disc rubs against aluminum it's like wood onto sand paper, and it warps twice as fast as steel.The clutch will only use half it's life span on a warped aluminum friction plate.

What aluminum friction plate are you talking about?

[s13rb25det]

I got one of those f1 flywheels on my ka and I will let you guys know how well it works if I ever get my motor running again

[Bigvinnie]

What aluminum friction plate are you talking about?

So I guess what you are telling me is that the F1 is made of steel,chromoly, not aluminum...Right????? From the pics it looks as if the entire flywheel is aluminum.If that is the case it would be bad.....

[nelson8708]

just thought i would throw it out there that my ka flywheel on a smaller scale (10oz-25lbs) weighted about 20lbs as well so i guess it is pretty accurate. Also for anyone who is doing the white bunny special clutch combo.....the truck flywheel weights 24lbs and the clutch i got got it (D21) weighted 19lbs so that is 43lbs total. Only 7 or 8lbs more than stock.



Sorry for the thread jacking. Just wanted to add my .02

[Beazle]

Different size shapes of the same weight have nothing to do with it.Why do people buy big brake set up's to stop earlier and to keep brake pads cooler????I think leverage comes into play.As far as fly wheels are concerned that are lighter in mass, it takes away weighted inertia which increases aspiration at higher RPM's showing a small gain in peak power. It also allows for better engine control when downshifting and braking. Whether or not the weight of the majority of the mass is placed to the center or rim of the fly wheel doesn't matter it still the same over all weight that drives a transmission which transfers inertia/power to the drive shaft that is no more than 2" in diameter last I recall. The majority of power loss/degradation from the drive train comes from the drive shaft/transmission anyways, not the fly wheel.

Your comparison to brakes is incorrect.

Also you assertion that where the mass is located in incorrect. When you change the location of the mass you change the Moment of Inertia. This changes how much work it takes to make it spin. I can get some equations to validate this later if you wish.

Greg

[Reno]

stupid question... will a 280zx flywheel match up with our ka's? cause i seen a fidanza 280zx flywheel @ 11 lbs w00hoo 11 lbs and 240mm...

[Bigvinnie]

stupid question... will a 280zx flywheel match up with our ka's? cause i seen a fidanza 280zx flywheel @ 11 lbs w00hoo 11 lbs and 240mm...

Yes it will search through other forums for a set up known as the "white rabbit","white bunny".280zxflywheel, with a NAPSZ clutch it's the big bang for your buck combo. Biggamehit just did it in the club240 forums.The only thing you really need to match up with on the clutch combo's is teeth and spline, then match clutch size, to plate. Most FS5W71c transmissions use the same spline. 280zx's use an FS5w71B transmission, but the spline seems to match.

[Bigvinnie]

Your comparison to brakes is incorrect.

Greg

So guess I don't need big brakes to stop earlier then, Greg.

[Bigvinnie]

I would like to make a correction to the thread starter. I do apologized for not reading the entire text of the post to see that it was a chromoly metal not aluminum used as the flywheel.I did some investigating as to the strength of chromoly.It happens to have a higher tensile strength than that of alluminum but is still recognized as a low alloy steel. I would definitely like to see how long the clutch itself will last, due to a possible higher friction rate. It doesn't appear to seem that chromoly although having much higher tensile strength than aluminum or even 1020 grade steel, wont hold up well to heat and friction. It does appear that the surface of the flywheel is in fact chromolly used as friction disc. Whether or not it is durable to a clutch will need to defenitely be determined.Fidanza uses a 1045 steel for there friction plate, as listed from there website.Also please take note to Fidanza's last sentence of there flywheel description.http://www.fidanza.com/aluminum-flywheels.aspx

This is what I picked up from wikipedia.Edit: NICO club isn't allowing the wikipedia definitions.

http://en.nicoclub.com/nowiki....steelh ... i/Chromoly
Modified by Bigvinnie at 9:01 AM 3/25/2007

[xTearsFallForeverx]

big brake kit you are grabbing more of the edge of the brake to slow down, a clutch plate grabs more of the inner diameter, leaving more of the outside lapped over for the pressure plate to bolt on, and for the ring gear. also if you think if terms of gearing i think, a larger flywheel clutch combo will turn a bit slower, it may be able to transfer more torque though. i dont know.. im not an expert. just my $0.02

[Bigvinnie]

a larger flywheel clutch combo will turn a bit slower, it may be able to transfer more torque though. i dont know.. im not an expert. just my $0.02

Don't need to be an expert, but the concept you are grabbing is correct in my mind.The reason why people step up to a whitebunny set up is to grab more of the torque. Basically the clutch and flywheel combo of the white bunny does less work causing probably more than likely less friction. Then again I'm not an engineer or expert, but that is what I've been told from professionals. A larger diameter clutch essentially does less work. Just as a larger diameter disc brakes do less work.Sorry to thread jack I want to stay updated on this thread.......

[eazye2000]

Bigvinnie, you're just better than the rest of us, that's all.

I think you totally lost the grasp of why I decided to go this route. But alas, everyone is entitled to their own opinioin. The object is to try and find a decent low-cost setup and to put an end to all the "He said, she said" crap that goes around with knock-off parts. I don't condone the 'White Bunny' Special either. If that's what someone wants to do, then so be it. I was headed in that route, but I decided to go out on a limb and test out the parts that people are shunning and talking bad about even though they've never used it and only base their 'opinion' on what they 'hear'.

And when you say that the chromoly flywheel isn't as hard, then I'm wondering why SPEC uses it for their flywheel.. I'm looking at getting into a pissing contest either..

[TheOne]

hurry up and test it out!, am debatin wether or not i should buy 1 of those!.

[nelson8708]

Don't need to be an expert, but the concept you are grabbing is correct in my mind.The reason why people step up to a whitebunny set up is to grab more of the torque. Basically the clutch and flywheel combo of the white bunny does less work causing probably more than likely less friction. Then again I'm not an engineer or expert, but that is what I've been told from professionals. A larger diameter clutch essentially does less work. Just as a larger diameter disc brakes do less work.Sorry to thread jack I want to stay updated on this thread.......

Not sure what you are talking about when you say less work. The further away from the center of the flywheel the edge of the clutch is the more leverage (cant spell) you have on it. Just like when tighting a bolt......you can push on the middle of the wrench or the end of the wrench. It is all about surface area and leverage(once agian cant spell).

[sil80drifter]

Hey when you say "somewhat unlmited friciton surface" how do you mean that? It looks to me on the pix that yo can see a dividing line between where the friction surface stops and the rest of the flywheel surface begins... I am not sure because I can't measure this, but is the "available" friciton surface (read hat which is before the line I'm talking about) larger than the stock 225 mm?

sil80

[xTearsFallForeverx]

It looks to me on the pix that yo can see a dividing line between where the friction surface stops and the rest of the flywheel surface beginssil80

I beleive you are absolutly correct sir.

[eazye2000]

hurry up and test it out!, am debatin wether or not i should buy 1 of those!.

Ok, ok. I've gotten a few e-mails on this subject, so I might as well post on it.

The car is running with the stock ECU, SAFC-II, and my AEM Wideband. I've got it down to the best I can right now, and she's still being broke in with a total of 10 miles on her. Engine was totally gone through and everything beefed up, etc etc.As far as the clutch/flywheel goes, it feels very snappy/strong. I've not been able to get on it that much, but anything over 1/3 - 1/2 throttle will break the tires loose. Same setup as before, but with lower compression and everything now. The car in general seems more responsive with the underdrive/lightened crank pulley and the flywheel along with the whole rotating assembly that got balanced.

Overall opinion: This is a decent deal. There was a dividing line between the 'friction' surface, but I couldn't tell you if it was of a different hardness, treated, or whatever. If you wanted to use a 'white bunny' special type setup, the company does offer the 280zx flywheel just like this one that you could use for the larger friction area. I'm gonna go put a few more miles on her today and get it that much closer to being broke in.

[sil80drifter]

Gotcha, in that case it's moot, and your comments stands.

sil80

[Bigvinnie]

Bigvinnie, you're just better than the rest of us, that's all.

No I'm not better than anyone else but when I start to see comments that you saved money when compared to a Fidanza flywheel that is a pretty bold comment.Not to mention it doesn't at all determine the life of the clutch.So you think you save money buying a chromoly over a aluminum flywheel?I would like to see what the results look like over a 1 year hard driving experience, guaranteed it isn't saving money in the long run.I just speculate in the best interest of the consumer, and I am entitled to that. This is why we are in the forums to show truth from BullSH$T.

[Bigvinnie]

It is all about surface area and leverage(once agian cant spell).

Bingo! Bigger clutches, more surface area, easier to grip added torque to the wheels.

[eazye2000]

I just speculate in the best interest of the consumer, and I am entitled to that. This is why we are in the forums to show truth from BullSH$T.

Ok, so I'm a BullSh|tter..

Like I said before, I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. And I'm also trying to weed out the OPINIONS of people who have NEVER dealt with the so called 'knock off' companies.

[Bigvinnie]

Ok, so I'm a BullSh|tter..

Like I said before, I'm not trying to get into a pissing contest. And I'm also trying to weed out the OPINIONS of people who have NEVER dealt with the so called 'knock off' companies.

I never called you a bullsh$ter, fact is you didn't care to research deep enough about there friction plate... So do you know WTF you are buying into?

[Bigvinnie]

Made from 4140 chrome-moly steel

F1 RACING StreetLite Chrome-Moly Flywheels are made from 100% solid one-piece billet chrome moly steel.

It's 5 carbons short of the density that a fidanza flywheel friction disc uses.The last 2 numbers of the 4 digit number represents it carbon make up.Your not saving any money compared to a fidanza, that also doesn't make it a better deal!!!!!!!! That is a FACT....

The first two digits indicate the alloy group, and the last two digits indicate the carbon content in hundreths of a percent by weight.

Modified by Bigvinnie at 4:06 PM 3/26/2007

[AeonTorpor]

Bingo! Bigger clutches, more surface area, easier to grip added torque to the wheels.

Nope. Physics, man. Surface area only matters when you're talking about heat dissipation. "Grip", otherwise known as friction matters only to the friction coefficient of the surface materials.

That's why a 6-puck clutch, that has less surface area than a regular organic clutch, can hold more torque. The surface material has a significantly higher friction coefficient.

[Bigvinnie]

Nope. Physics, man. Surface area only matters when you're talking about heat dissipation. "Grip", otherwise known as friction matters only to the friction coefficient of the surface materials.

Friction causes heat so whats your point.

[Beazle]

I'm sorry for talking in big words and eq's. I'll stop trying to let people know why things do what they do.


Modified by Beazle at 1:17 PM 3/28/2007

[eazye2000]

I say we leave LittleVinnie alone. He's always right, so let's leave him be. We don't want to anger the Know-It-All Nismo-Gods.

Once again, I think he's lost track of the point...