Egypt?

[IBCoupe]

I expect that the Military's going to have a much greater influence in however this ends up playing out. Be it a true democracy (which doesn't mean Muslim Brotherhood, btw - they had 20% of the vote in the last election. They're popular, but not that popular) or be it a weakened Mubarak, the military's going to be heavily involved from here on out. Israel's likely in no real danger, but they may have a reinforced Palestine to deal with (Gaza's suddenly better supported). I say they're in no danger because if there's anybody who's a master at examining costs and benefits, it's military brass.

Any strong-arm tactics against Israel will still have a United States to reckon with. And no matter what happens, Egypt is not going to be as strong as it has been. I'd say their primary concern is going to be their Arab neighbors - there's unrest across the region and what better way to boost public confidence than a power grab to get in a better position to hurt the Jews?

[AZhitman]

^ Makes sense. I've been devouring all the info on this I can, and it looks like the military and the protesters are fairly like-minded. Both take issue with Mubarek. Police forces seem to be more aligned with Mubarek, and are most certainly corrupt... IB's right, though - the MB doesn't have enough support to win a gen election, and let's be real: Egypt doesn't REALLY want to F with Israel, and vice versa.

Citizens want peace and democracy. They want jobs and income and safety. They don't give a damn who provides it, but they're weary of living in a powder keg. So, I'd anticipate they'll reject ANY "hard-liner" in favor of someone more "Westernized".

[audtatious]

Dunno, I wouldn't have thought Palestine would elect Hamas but they did

[IBCoupe]

Palestinians didn't have anything to lose at the time. Moderates weren't accomplishing anything, their lives still sucked. Hamas probably hasn't made it that much worse, but I don't think they've made it any better. If a definition of insanity is trying the same thing over and over, expecting to receive different results, I see the election of Hamas as an attempt to regain Palestinian sanity.

[audtatious]

I agree with that and I really have no solution that I think would work to resolve that "conflict". As with most of these issues there will be those who get butt hurt because they don't like it. In that area it means you have some group somewhere who are going to lob rockets or use suicide bombers. Funny that the leaders themselves won't perform such suicide tactics as that would eventually lead to a solution.

[AZhitman]

...and it's gotten ugly now.

CNN's live feeds from Cairo are disturbing and saddening... somehow, it's pitting countrymen against each other, there's women and children in the Square, and weapons are being procured... <sigh>

[stebo0728]

The Goa'uld need to come back through the Stargate and straighten their a**'s out

[Cold_Zero]

NBC was reporting that a mass demostration was scheduled for Amman Jordan today. I still think someone is behind these demonstrations. Kind of like the demonstrations in South Korea.

[telcoman]

^ and let's be real: Egypt doesn't REALLY want to F with Israel".

Subject: Israeli response
"Dear Egyptian rioters, please do not damage the pyramids. We will not rebuild."


Telcoman

[Cold_Zero]

It appears that Vice President and the Cable News Networks are working up the demonstrations in Tehran. It is finally nice to agree with the Vice President on an issue.

To be honest, using the revolutions in the Philippines and Indonesia as an example, I have had a hard time grappling with the notion that if Mubarak was overthrown that a more fanatical Islamic regime was guaranteed to move into power in Egypt. I realize that a lot remains to be seen, but there are a lot of similarities between the Indonesia revolution and the Egyptian. More so than the Philippines.

[audtatious]

The military taking control along with their "congress"? as a means to stabilize things until elections in the fall seems to be a good move. Otherwise pressing forth for everything to be setup and ready for voting within 60 days would have led to a pretty bad outcome, IMO.

[96Qowner]

The military is safely in complete control and the demonstrators seem to be satisfied for now. So far, so good.

But it seems that, outside of the American mainstream media, some people aren't terribly impressed with Barry and his peeps:

The president has alienated everybody: not only Mubarak’s cronies in the military, but also the youthful crowds in the streets of Cairo. Whoever ultimately wins, Obama loses. And the alienation doesn’t end there. America’s two closest friends in the region—Israel and Saudi Arabia—are both disgusted. The Saudis, who dread all manifestations of revolution, are appalled at Washington’s failure to resolutely prop up Mubarak. The Israelis, meanwhile, are dismayed by the administration’s apparent cluelessness.

Last week, while other commentators ran around Cairo’s Tahrir Square, hyperventilating about what they saw as an Arab 1989, I flew to Tel Aviv for the annual Herzliya security conference. The consensus among the assembled experts on the Middle East? A colossal failure of American foreign policy.

http://www.newsweek.com/2011/02/13/want ... erica.html

[stebo0728]

Lord knows I line right up to throw stones at Obama and the libbies, but I have to say, I dont get the outrage against him on this, I mean seriously what can he do, or dare I ask what SHOULD he do in this case besides tender an official statement of opinion? We cant be in the business of trying to craft everyone else's policy. We can talk to other leaders and offer suggestions, but at the end of the day we just have to work with what they give us. If it ends up another islamic theocracy, well so be it and we just have to deal with it accordingly. If it ends up some recognizable form of democracy, then great, but aside from suggesting and hoping, what else is to be done?

And further, I dont much care for the way we "spread liberty" these days. It never makes sense to me how our fore fathers could craft such a dynamic form of government in the constitutional republic we have, and our present day leaders proceed to push pure, or nearly pure democracy on the third world? Democracy isnt going to fix anything, you have to have a balanced representative republic, that can equalize overly large factions. Thats what our system was designed to do, and did quite well for decades until we started to tinker under the hood with things like the 17th ammendment.

[Cold_Zero]

The military is safely in complete control and the demonstrators seem to be satisfied for now. So far, so good.

I hate to harp on what you said, but did you really think this comment through? Or is the whole world immune to the fear of the military being in control of anything (domestically)?

My wife keeps asking who is the good guy and who is the bad guy in all this. I simply say, "This is the Middle East, it depends on who you talk to." I guess I have the viewpoint that neither an out of the control populous nor is an President in full control of the country that won't let go of power is a desired government. And certainly not the military. Just call me Cincinnatus, I guess.

[96Qowner]

Oh, I thought it through, yes. Their military is the only thing that can save Egypt from total chaos, as I stated in an earlier post in this thread. I guess some people just have a knee-jerk aversion to anything military.

Stability is a good thing. Look into the history of Pakistan's military, for instance. Without them, it would be a war-torn, fractured "country".

[audtatious]

The military is only as good as their word. IF they do as they say and allow the Egyptians to elect their representative in the fall then it should be fine. Hopefully they don't try and keep control and put "one of their own" in charge. That seems to happen more than not.

[IBCoupe]

Don't know if you guys have considered this, but the military is responsible for most economic growth (as small as it has been) in Egypt. Not only are they the armed forces, but it's a pretty socialistic society, when you step back and look at it - the military is the major industry-owner.

[AZhitman]

Lord knows I line right up to throw stones at Obama and the libbies, but I have to say, I dont get the outrage against him on this.

Ditto.

Piss on 'em. Until my ancestors pull their collective heads out of their collective a$$es and take care of THEIR front porch, no one's gonna give a damn what they say. Keep huckin' rocks and being disingenuous... it's been that way for thousands of years.

Recent Pew Research poll: 82% of Egyptians favor stoning as a punishment for adultery, 84% favor the death penalty for leaving Islam and 59% of Egyptians identify themselves as Islamic fundamentalists. A 59%-majority of Muslims in Egypt believed that democracy was preferable to any other kind of government.

Yeah. I care what they think about our leader.

[Cold_Zero]

Two great articles related to Egypt

The West Loses Its Favorite Tyrant
http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 04,00.html

The US news media doesn’t have the balls to say what Der Spiegel does.

'Biblical Exodus'
http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 21,00.html

You won’t hear this story or anything out of Algeria because of our short sightedness.

[heliochrome85]

well no real american wants to speak french, and so who cares what happens in algeria?

[audtatious]

We are too busy trying to adapt ourselves to Spanish....

[heliochrome85]

We are too busy trying to adapt ourselves to Spanish....

DOLOR AQUI?

yes, even I have learned a few words IN ESPANNYOLLL

[audtatious]

¿Me puede dar la crema agria en mi burrito

or something like that.....

[Cold_Zero]

Recent Pew Research poll: 82% of Egyptians favor stoning as a punishment for adultery, 84% favor the death penalty for leaving Islam and 59% of Egyptians identify themselves as Islamic fundamentalists. A 59%-majority of Muslims in Egypt believed that democracy was preferable to any other kind of government.

And apparently 200 Egyptian men favor beating up an American newswoman, sexually assaulting her and yelling 'Death to the Jew' at her. Even though she is not a Jew. Where is the condemnation of this misogyny?

[Cold_Zero]

An interesting write up of Youssef al-Qaradawi.
http://www.spiegel.de/international/wor ... 26,00.html

I chuckled when they compared him to the Pope, as our Confessions refer to the Papacy as the anti-Christ. Not good company to be in.

[AZhitman]

Recent Pew Research poll: 82% of Egyptians favor stoning as a punishment for adultery, 84% favor the death penalty for leaving Islam and 59% of Egyptians identify themselves as Islamic fundamentalists. A 59%-majority of Muslims in Egypt believed that democracy was preferable to any other kind of government.

And apparently 200 Egyptian men favor beating up an American newswoman, sexually assaulting her and yelling 'Death to the Jew' at her. Even though she is not a Jew. Where is the condemnation of this misogyny?

Like I said, piss on 'em.

It's time for America to turn her back on those who can't respect basic human rights - NO MATTER THE COST.

Who's got the balls? POTUS? Where you at, dawg?

[heliochrome85]

Like I said, piss on 'em.

It's time for America to turn her back on those who can't respect basic human rights - NO MATTER THE COST.

Who's got the balls? POTUS? Where you at, dawg?

it'd be nice if we started at home. im looking at you Gay Marriage Opponents.

[stebo0728]

Like I said, piss on 'em.

It's time for America to turn her back on those who can't respect basic human rights - NO MATTER THE COST.

Who's got the balls? POTUS? Where you at, dawg?

it'd be nice if we started at home. im looking at you Gay Marriage Opponents.

Hey, the h0mos arent being shorted any rights. As as straight man, the law prevents me from marrying another man just the same. Just sayin...

[srellim234]

Actually, the way the gays need to approach it is that it is discriminatory based on gender alone, not gender preference. The law allows females to marry males but does not allow males, based solely on their gender, to marry males. The same discrimination applies to women marrying women, where they are discriminated against solely on the basis of gender, not gender preference. That discussion, however, is for an entirely different thread than this one.

[IBCoupe]

Oooh, fun time!

DoMA's an unconstitutional violation of Congress' enumerated powers. GO!