Eagle Rods for 400-450whp goal or stay Stock?

[spec1sef]

Should I buy Eagle H-beam Rods for 450whp goal? I am on budget but if stock rods are not reliable for 450whp then I would spend the money and upgrade them now.

I know our stock motors have made that much but I have my motor out of the car and was thinking this might be the best time to upgrade.

Parts I have bought:

- Stock turbo with upgraded GT28r compressor side.
- 2.5" exhaust and downpipe.
- 575cc JECS injectors.
- Pistons and Rods (stock)
- Z1 chip

I just don't know how stock pistons and rods would hold up at 450whp daily driving in the long run.

[itsa300zx]

I would be more worried about the piston rather than the rods. Some shot peen the stock rods. IMHO 450 WHP is OK with stock rods.

[z32loverboy]

yeah, the rods are forged in both the TT and n/a motors. They have the same nissan part number. I wouldn't worry about them unless you plan to go over 500 hp. Then again I plan on over building everything and I would go ahead and get forged EVERYTHING! The harder it is, the longer it lasts.

But seriously, if you can afford it then go ahead and get the rods and pistons. That's one less thing you will have to worry about if you decide to crank the boost one day.

[spec1sef]

thanks guys. Bought some Eagle H-beam rods. Need to find some pistons. Any preference? Wiseco or CP. Anyone selling?

[z32loverboy]

I would get the Wiseco & Eagle rod combo. they sell them in a kit and iirc its cheaper to buy them as a kit then separate. I think it's like $800 or so for pistons and rings last time i looked.

Edit: I looked again and here it is at z1 for just over 1k. You may be able to find it cheaper somewhere else but this is just a basic forged rebuild kit. http://www.z1motorsports.com/product_in ... ts_id=2832

Here's one with a gasket kit as well: http://www.conceptzperformance.com/Cart ... 154.21.231

[spec1sef]

Thanks for the links. Definetly cheaper buying as kit. I found new Eagle rods that I couldn't pass on for $400 shipped. This was the last set they had so I bought it. Cheapest price on Pistons I have found is $614 shipped. So I will save little bit.

I still have to wait for engine tear down so machine shop can examine it and figure out the bore size we want to go with.

What do you guys recommend for bearings? ACL RACE Bearings or go OEM? Not huge price difference.

I would get the Wiseco & Eagle rod combo. they sell them in a kit and iirc its cheaper to buy them as a kit then separate. I think it's like $800 or so for pistons and rings last time i looked.

Edit: I looked again and here it is at z1 for just over 1k. You may be able to find it cheaper somewhere else but this is just a basic forged rebuild kit. http://www.z1motorsports.com/product_in ... ts_id=2832

Here's one with a gasket kit as well: http://www.conceptzperformance.com/Cart ... 154.21.231

[BigTDogg (MA)]

OEM bearings are fine. Check out ImportPartsPro.com for pricing comparisons as well. I'd also consider ARP head bolts.

[300ZXttZMAN]

Wiesco is the best "bang for your buck" piston on the market IMHO.

[spec1sef]

Ok I was just searching and found this video on 300zx with bolt-on upgrades making 542whp on stock rods and pistons. That's my goal. If I don't need to spend $1k on the piston and rods then I don't want to unless those numbers are not reliable for too long with stock pistons.

any input on that? I rather spend that money on tuning. I won't have to tear down the motor either.

Can you do a compression test on JDM VG30DETT without oil in it? The motor I got sat for few months before sold to me and had all fluids drained. So I did a compression test on all cylinders which showed 60-70psi except number 5 cylinder showed 30psi. I did all this with hand cranking and no oil.

Called JDM Engine Zone and they said that's not enough to say cylinder is weak. Put it in the car and get it running. It will run. So if that's the case I don't want to tear down the motor to do all this rod and piston upgrade for 450whp goal. I might as well do maintenance and put it in the car.

I will save $1100+ machine work cost if I keep stock internals.

Here is the video link but he never really showed the graph.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbEDaJOMhvU

Wiesco is the best "bang for your buck" piston on the market IMHO.

[Z-owned]

Stock internals are generally considered good up to 500whp at the point you start getting above that I would upgrade the internals. Like said for piece of mind if money allowed I would upgrade but we all understand budgets lol.

[SBC300]

How many of you guys actually are making 700hp on these motors? Dyno proven?
Just curious as I see no way the stock rods are good to 700hp.

[andre1038]

My power goal is the same as yours Spec1. There is no need to spend money on rods and pistons if you want to push 400whp or 450whp but i will tell you that you will need a good tune so you won't mess up your engine. But spending the money on rods and pistons will give that sense of security for sure like others said. You can do a budget build on a Z but you have to do it right. I also happen to have a JDM engine that compression tested at 160 give or take a difference of 5 between the 6 cylinders. Becareful with JDM engines they are either Hit or Miss (usually the later)
There is a guy selling his JDM engine on the classified forum, according to him it ran awesome and that the only reason he is selling it is because he used it for a couple months while he was building the engine that came with the car on the side and now since he is done building the engine he took out the Jdm engine since it was just a temporary engine so he can drive his car daily

I already researched into this since this will be my goal plus weight reduction to make the car weigh around 3200 lbs maybe 3100 but i think that might be pushing it lol

( i already replaced the 2 factory heavy seats with Bride seats), eliminating the hicas from front to back, AIV's, (still debating on eliminating A/C not sure probably not since i live in Florida)

[Z-owned]

How many of you guys actually are making 700hp on these motors? Dyno proven?
Just curious as I see no way the stock rods are good to 700hp.

Who said anything about 700hp in this thread?

[SBC300]

How many of you guys actually are making 700hp on these motors? Dyno proven?
Just curious as I see no way the stock rods are good to 700hp.

Who said anything about 700hp in this thread?

Well lets call it 550-600 fwhp then. I just dont see the stock rods holding 500fwhp for long.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

How many of you guys actually are making 700hp on these motors? Dyno proven?
Just curious as I see no way the stock rods are good to 700hp.

Did you mean 500HP? Because no one ever said anything about 700. There's no way stock rods would last very long at 700 HP

Well lets call it 550-600 fwhp then. I just dont see the stock rods holding 500fwhp for long.

500BHP on stock rods/pistons is not an issue with a good tune.

I make 511BHP (15% loss) or 530BHP at 18% loss, with a clean tune, no knock, all stock motor. Remember, stock rods are forged.

[spec1sef]

@Z-owned: How much drop do you have on your Z and what kind of Wheel and Size are those? I like the looks

[SBC300]

I make 511BHP (15% loss) or 530BHP at 18% loss, with a clean tune, no knock, all stock motor. Remember, stock rods are forged.

I know they are forged as I have a set in a box in my shop. He mentioned 450 rwhp. That's 540 fwhp at 20% loss.
The rods that I am looking do not appear to be beefy enough but I am not sure what type of alloy, forging process, etc that they use.

My rule of thumb is to upgrade, crank, rods and pistons as an assembly. I never put upgraded pistons on stock rods, upgrade just the rods and use stock pistons & crank. It just moves the weak link to a different component.

Occasionally using a stock crank is required due to aftermarket availability. But then mains usually become problematic at high HP. A friends 2jz is making over a thousand at the wheels with a stock crank, but he designed, manufactured and now sells billet mains for those motors. Its rebuilt about every 3 months.

If you are planning on spinning the hell out of it, running a lot of boost or racing it then I would upgrade the rods and pistons. If not, just dont rev the crap out of it and dont run 35psi.

90% of engine failures that I see are due to a poor tune or over-rev. Mostly bad tunes.

Thats my 2 cents anyway.....

[Z-owned]

@Z-owned: How much drop do you have on your Z and what kind of Wheel and Size are those? I like the looks

Thanks! they are work meister s1's 18x9 +25 front and 18x10 +35 rear. Drop is about 2.5"

[spec1sef]

My rule of thumb is to upgrade, crank, rods and pistons as an assembly. I never put upgraded pistons on stock rods, upgrade just the rods and use stock pistons & crank. It just moves the weak link to a different component...
Thats my 2 cents anyway.....

I agree with what you are saying. Since I have already bought the Eagle rods so I've decided to start tearing down the motor for rebuild. I will go forged Piston and Rods. I think stock crank would be enough for my goals.

I plan on driving this car occasionally not a daily driver and take it to track 2-3 times a year. That's it. Not looking to run 10-11 sec. Just have a reliable fun car.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

Doesn't hurt to upgrade rods and pistons, but there are limited options for upgraded cranks for the VG.

The tune is the most essential part of any build. After witnessing Greg and Seb work on my Z, I cannot recommend an off-the-shelf EPROM to anyone who has more than a stage 3 build.

[spec1sef]

Doesn't hurt to upgrade rods and pistons, but there are limited options for upgraded cranks for the VG.

The tune is the most essential part of any build. After witnessing Greg and Seb work on my Z, I cannot recommend an off-the-shelf EPROM to anyone who has more than a stage 3 build.

Yes I won't rely on off-shelf tuning. I am still deciding should I spend $600 on dyno tune or get a Nistune. I have build and tuned Megasquirt for a turbo Miata which still running great. I love Megasquirt and Tuner Studio for tuning but I don't want to try it on the Z due to the lack of support and info out there.

Anyone know what software Z1, CZP, or JWT used to change values on the chips they sell?
I have a chip programmer and I have already chipped my ECU but don't know how to open those map files. Haven't researched.

[spec1sef]

90% of engine failures that I see are due to a poor tune or over-rev. Mostly bad tunes.

419whp on 91 fuel. Stock turbo and internal with bolt-on. Same motor made 499whp with race fuel. Right bolt-on with good tuning does wonders.

http://specialtyz.com/blog/?p=441

[SBC300]

90% of engine failures that I see are due to a poor tune or over-rev. Mostly bad tunes.

419whp on 91 fuel. Stock turbo and internal with bolt-on. Same motor made 499whp with race fuel. Right bolt-on with good tuning does wonders.

http://specialtyz.com/blog/?p=441

Screenshot from dyno with correction factor included?

[BigTDogg (MA)]

It's in the link

[spec1sef]

[spec1sef]

I need some advice from people who are running bigger turbo's. I am getting the engine rebuilt with forged internals so I feel like I want more power than 420whp.

I picked up some new Garrett turbos. These are stock 300zx turbo with stock turbine side but the compressor side is upgraded. The compressor wheel is 46.5mm inducer and 60.1mm exducer it is a gt28 compressor wheel. I have seen stock turbo make 412whp on pump gas. I am guessing these might make 430-450whp max. Maybe more on race gas.



I have spent so much money on this project that I feel like I might as well get bigger turbos. I found GT2871R with .86 A/R turbine for $1900/pair. I wonder how laggy are these going to be and what power range will it make on pump gas? 600whp+ possible?



My Mods:
- Bigger SMIC.
- 800cc Injectors.
- Megan downpipe and Catback.
- Eagle rods and Wiseco pistons.
- ACL bearing.
- ARP head and main studs.

[NolimitZ32]

2871s are definitely upper range turbos, I'm running HKS 2530s and LOVE them, best of both worlds a little bit of lag and pull all the way to redline and beyond. 600 may be within reach with these on pump but you would need some serious dyno time. The moddified stockers are very inefficient so 450 is probably the top threshold, I don't have too much experience with them but on paper they didn't look like something i'd be happy with so I didnt even bother. And yes Eagle/wiseco combo should handle anything a pair of 2871s can dish out provided you get a GOOD tune by a GOOD tuner.

[spec1sef]

How much power are you putting down and at what psi?

[NolimitZ32]

NO clue, never had a chance to get it dyno'd or tuned, I'm running a basetune from SZ and monitoring with wideband and conZult. Or I should say I was, my z has been parked for 4 months, I moved out of the country so it's just sitting in my dad's garage and gets the occasional around the block run. If I had to guess I'd say somewhere around 430-450whp at wastegate boost (14psi). This is pretty much a shot in the dark and mainly going off the results I have had from the runs that i've had. If you are after pure HP figurs there are cheaper ways of making it. The VG and Z32 is one of those engines/cars that you build because you love, there are far better cars for every type of motorsport and far easier and less expensive engines to pull power out of, so ask yourself do you want a fun driveable car or do you want a car that will win a d!ck contest but leave you wanting on the street? If you want to drive it and enjoy it on the streets and highways i'd say anything bigger than a 2871 is overkill, hell anything bigger than a disco is overkill, there's a reason so many people run discos & 530s. These are way better for pure driving joy.

[spec1sef]

So what I understand from your reply is GT2871r are also big. I plan on taking it to drag and occasional weekend driving. Maybe twice a year to Nelson Ledges road course, that's it.

So for a 550whp goal GT2871r are overkill or perfect? I want responsive car not too laggy.