Eagle Rods for 400-450whp goal or stay Stock?

[Z-owned]

The bigger the turbo's the more lag it will have. There are ways of getting the lag time down but your looking at more money, but 2.5" ic piping with the supporting ic's, msp manifolds, larger tb's, 3" exhaust etc. will all help reduce the lag response. Basically the better the engine breathes the better for both power and lag.

[NolimitZ32]

for 550whp 2871 is a bit big, the 2871 can do 700whp on race gas IIRC, 550BBs can do 550whp on race gas if you want a turbo that will reliably do 550whp on pump you should be able to easily hit that with the 28rs/2860r/hks2530 (all pretty much the same). I think the 28rs is the best sized for all around smiles, the 2871 will definitely be better for drag especially if you install launch control and have the supporting suspension/traction mods, for autocross the smaller 550BBs will be better as they have less lag than the the other two. That being said in my research and opinion I think down right the best turbo to match a VG30DETT is the Big 16G but I havent seen one in ball bearing configuration from MHI or any of the reputable manufacturers, you can find off brand Big 16G speced units but most of them are ebay sellers (some better than others), the 16G however will require custom manifolds and DPs as the flanges are different. If you search NICO you should be able to find a turbo comparisson thread I made some time ago, also check out ztechz.net for extra turbo info.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

TD05-16G are dinosaur turbo technology. Definitely better off going with a GT series turbo. Even better than the GT is the GTX, ball bearing billet turbos. The results are really impressive.

[spec1sef]

What do you think guys?

I am returning my upgraded Garrett turbos to buy either GT2860 or GT2871. I paid $1100 for the upgraded ones but these GT2871R are going for $1900/pair shipped.

Check below ebay listing. Let me know if it's a good deal. I will have to custome fab the outlets and buy 5-bolt down pipes.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/290845380859?ss ... 1432.l2649

[Z-owned]

I would be leary of buying turbo's off ebay regardless of whether they say new or not. Honestly i think buying something already to bolt on for the z32 is your best bet like these

http://www.conceptzperformance.com/Cart ... 43.126.190

The new GTX turbo's mentioned have been impressive as well with the results so far but they do have the cost to go with it. I will re-state my previous comment of breather mod's being far more benificial then larger turbo's though.

[vulcanrush]

That being said in my research and opinion I think down right the best turbo to match a VG30DETT is the Big 16G

i think for the vg, you have three viable options (and the big 16g isn't one of them, haha):

for street cars: 530bb/550bb
if you want something with a little more power: 700bb/675rs
if you have the money and wouldn't mind spending a little bit more: gtx turbos

550BBs can do 550whp on race gas

my 550bb's did 510 on regular 93-octane, no meth or anything fancy, they can go over 550rwhp on race gas, 600 isn't out of the question.

[vulcanrush]

Should I buy Eagle H-beam Rods for 450whp goal? I am on budget but if stock rods are not reliable for 450whp then I would spend the money and upgrade them now.

I know our stock motors have made that much but I have my motor out of the car and was thinking this might be the best time to upgrade.

Parts I have bought:

- Stock turbo with upgraded GT28r compressor side.
- 2.5" exhaust and downpipe.
- 575cc JECS injectors.
- Pistons and Rods (stock)
- Z1 chip

I just don't know how stock pistons and rods would hold up at 450whp daily driving in the long run.

if you're on a budget, why did you buy upgraded rods (when you didn't really need them), but purchased crappy fuel injectors?

[vulcanrush]

I make 511BHP (15% loss) or 530BHP at 18% loss, with a clean tune, no knock, all stock motor. Remember, stock rods are forged.

I know they are forged as I have a set in a box in my shop. He mentioned 450 rwhp. That's 540 fwhp at 20% loss.
The rods that I am looking do not appear to be beefy enough but I am not sure what type of alloy, forging process, etc that they use.

My rule of thumb is to upgrade, crank, rods and pistons as an assembly. I never put upgraded pistons on stock rods, upgrade just the rods and use stock pistons & crank. It just moves the weak link to a different component.

Occasionally using a stock crank is required due to aftermarket availability. But then mains usually become problematic at high HP. A friends 2jz is making over a thousand at the wheels with a stock crank, but he designed, manufactured and now sells billet mains for those motors. Its rebuilt about every 3 months.

If you are planning on spinning the hell out of it, running a lot of boost or racing it then I would upgrade the rods and pistons. If not, just dont rev the crap out of it and dont run 35psi.

90% of engine failures that I see are due to a poor tune or over-rev. Mostly bad tunes.

Thats my 2 cents anyway.....

you said a lot of stuff, but i'm not sure if any of it is valuable to the OP:

1) the stock rods are fine for 450rwhp, they're "beefy" enough.
2) upgraded cranks for the vg are pretty limited, i know crower makes one, but it's pricey, 4-5k.
3) no one is planning to run 35-psi, and at that point, everything needs to get upgraded, not just the engine internals ---- better fuel rails, probably BDE ones, would be required, and you would have to run race fuel or e85.
4) if most of the engine failures that you see are due to bad tunes, why are you placing all this unneeded emphasis on getting stronger engine internals?

the focus should be getting a good tune.

[spec1sef]

if you're on a budget, why did you buy upgraded rods (when you didn't really need them), but purchased crappy fuel injectors?

It started out as a budget build but I realised 300zx parts are not cheap. You have to buy TWO of everything. My JDM block needs bored out so I have to buy new pistons and instead of going OEM I decided Wiseco. So that's where Eagle rods upgrade came in.

I plan on drag racing so instead of putting smaller turbos and upgrading later I was discussing with Nico members about turbo options.

[NolimitZ32]

TD05-16G are dinosaur turbo technology. Definitely better off going with a GT series turbo. Even better than the GT is the GTX, ball bearing billet turbos. The results are really impressive.

Which is what I was trying to say, they are all journal bearing and mechanically decades behind, but the way they flow and the volume they produce is perfect for the VE of a VG, on paper at least. And they are not a viable option for a VG, never said they were.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

I gotcha Anton, no biggie, just stating in case the OP didn't know.

OP, I'd ditch those Jecs and get some Nismo 740s or bigger (BDE Top Feeds) if you wanna do big power. Race fuel you'd be fine with 740s and 2871s, but E85 you need to go top feeds.

[spec1sef]

I gotcha Anton, no biggie, just stating in case the OP didn't know.

OP, I'd ditch those Jecs and get some Nismo 740s or bigger (BDE Top Feeds) if you wanna do big power. Race fuel you'd be fine with 740s and 2871s, but E85 you need to go top feeds.

I have a 16G TD05 on my Turbo Miata....honestly, I don't like it much.

I had 800cc injectors delivered last week which I never mentioned . 575cc were bought for the 500whp goal. So I will be selling them for $299 Shipped in classified section.

Also picked up two GT2860R Disco Potatos for $1200. They have low miles on them and no shaft play. yeppy! I know I know I will be getting bash for buying used turbos.

[NolimitZ32]

You will be very happy with the Discos and with the 800cc injectors you will be able to peak them (which is something I can't do with my current fueling setup). Which engine in the miata? the TD05-16G likes the 2nd gen 4G63s, anything less than 2000cc isn't enough to get it spooling early enough (because its journal bearing). A couple of my DSM buddies run oldschool MHI TD05-16Gs on their talons/eclipses and are happy, i've ridden along and driven their cars and for what they are the turbos are massively good but no contest for any BB turbo.

[spec1sef]

You will be very happy with the Discos and with the 800cc injectors you will be able to peak them (which is something I can't do with my current fueling setup). Which engine in the miata? the TD05-16G likes the 2nd gen 4G63s, anything less than 2000cc isn't enough to get it spooling early enough (because its journal bearing). A couple of my DSM buddies run oldschool MHI TD05-16Gs on their talons/eclipses and are happy, i've ridden along and driven their cars and for what they are the turbos are massively good but no contest for any BB turbo.

Mine is 1.6L small motor and FMIC so I feel the lag but I went with 16G in case I built my motor in future. I have another miata that I am thinking about using my Z t25 on it off of the Automatic VG30

[BigTDogg (MA)]

A Z turbo is a good size for a 1.6L motor.

I bought my Sport 500s used 4 years ago with 6k miles on them for $1100, so you got a good deal

[spec1sef]

Found a nice comparison picture of Stock turbo vs Upgraded vs GT28RS

[NolimitZ32]

One side of a VG (1.5L) most likely outflows the miata 1.6 so the 16Gs would work better with the VG's higher flow. But I digress, a small displacement engine needs to have the free-est spinning turbo possible hence the use of BB turbos performing better in low displacement setups. And here is some VG p0rn GT28RS style (actually HKS 2530s)

[spec1sef]

Could you find a picture of GT28r mounted on VG? I have searched Google and no luck.

I wonder if I will have to upgrade manifold. I don't want to

[Z-owned]

buy some msp manifolds, either do it right or dont do it at all imo. The stock manifold's will kill your performance potential drastically. Let me guess your still running stock ic's as well....

[Ace2cool]

[spec1sef]

buy some msp manifolds, either do it right or dont do it at all imo. The stock manifold's will kill your performance potential drastically. Let me guess your still running stock ic's as well....

Nope upgraded SMIC. Man....more money to spend.

[NolimitZ32]

I did have to mod the DS setup a bit, I bought extended studs for the turdine inducer flange and a second flange, then sandwiched the extra flange with a second gasket between the manifold outlet and the turbo. I had to do this because the compressor housing was too big or rather because these manifolds curve too wide at that one spot. MSPs are definitely the best manifolds out there for these cars. you could also port your stockers, I will be doing msps one day, when I return to the good old US of A, I bought these cause they were $75 and I wanted to see how they worked out, these manis are ok but the fabrication is not upto my standards and one of the nuts for the header stud was impossible to install so I'm running around with a little exhaust leak.

Spec: I could but you have google too, try searching the Z1 site and the sz site in the galleries. shouldnt be too hard to fin GT28R = gt2560, GT28RS = gt2860

Aaron, thank you man, I do that everytime I look at these pics, not sure if you've figured out but I'm 30k miles away for the better part of the next 4 years while the Z she sits in wait.

[Ace2cool]

Yeah, I've been keeping up with bookface. How is Perth, BTW?

[NolimitZ32]

Perth is nice, I don't get too see everyday so that keeps it from getting stagnant, I work in Northwest Australia in the outback building a LNG plant. On my off time I travel as much as possible, its awesome there's and enough to keep me busy enough to not get too homesick.

[spec1sef]

I am not looking to shell $695 on MSP manifold

Is porting the stock ones enough? I can't go tubular because they crack (first hand experience). And if they crack on the Z I will pull my hair out. Z is one of the hardest engine bay I have worked on. Japanese left no space empty. On top of that this 10 degree F weather is making the engine pull twice as hard even in a Garage. That kerosene heater I am running is making me dizzy and sick . ahhh too much complaining...get back to work

[NolimitZ32]

Holy hell, when did MSPs drop that much in price? If I was in the States right now I would be scooping a pair up asap, its very worth it. You don't even need to port your stockers you can run the stockers as is but the engine wont breathe as well as it can. Theres no space because the Z32 was designed around the VG30DE, engine was desinged and built first and then they designed the chassis to completely wrap around the engine, this is the reason why the Z32 is such a good all around car to drive and race but such a PITA to work on.

[spec1sef]

yep $695 at CZP. I don't think that's cheap to be honest.

http://www.conceptzperformance.com/Cart ... hp?II=1443

[BigTDogg (MA)]

I bought mine when they were $1K, so yes, $695 is cheap for those. They're made of the same Ni-ductile iron that Garrett uses for their turbine housings, and each piece is finished by hand. The fasteners alone cost $110, as they're all Inconel.



Considering their performance is (rough) equivalent to the SpecialtyZ Inconel manifolds which sold for $1800, they're a steal. Performance is impressive, IIRC a stock turbo car with nothing but manifolds changed spooled about 500 RPM sooner. That's a big help increasing area under the curve.

Frankly, these cars aren't cheap to maintain, much less so to modify. It's a hobby and will consume your disposable income.

Also, I suggest buying from here:

https://specialtyz.com/shop/300zx/ms-pe ... folds.html

[spec1sef]

How come AMS is showing better flow than MSP at cheaper price? I thought AMS was nothing more than stock lookalike.

This is straight from Z1motorsports


http://www.z1motorsports.com/product_in ... ts_id=3696

[NolimitZ32]

1. Vuk (AMS Owner) is full of s***!
2. This little diagram you have here is a one out of a large lot instance, basically i'm sure they spent some time searching for the best flowing AMS and worst flowing MSP
3. Z1 though overall reputable does business with a few questionable individuals which is why I prefer to deal with SZ and JWT ONLY
4. AMS has known and well documented quality issues.
5. You have 2 choices, heed the warnings of those who have experience and educate yourself or say screw it, save a couple hundred dollars and go AMS, maybe you'll never have an issue, maybe you'll have the manis crack after a few months, if thats a chance you are willing to take while supporting a company that rips off inovator's ideas than by all means.

I'll be here all like