Dyno Stats 95Q45T @ 137K - Stock (Got the pics scanned & posted)

[rsiwicki]

Well I did my dyno numbers and here are the results. It was a lot of fun and the guys at the shop were very impressed as they thought about 210 tops.

1st RunMax HP = 221.1 @ 4,750 RPMMax Torque = 251.8 @ 4,000 RPM***they said another torque peak at 4,600

2nd RunMax HP = 226.0 @ 4,750 RPMMax Torque = 256.3 @ 4,600 RPM***they said a smaller torque peak at 4,000

3rd RunMax HP = 231.5 @ 4,750 RPM

I did not get a max torque figure on that run as the guys foot slipped off the gas and there went that run. We did one more run after resting the car for 10+ minutes but he screwed up and the car downshifted right in the middle of the run. I did not have time to wait around for another run as I had to get to work and I forgot to pick up the graphs on the way out. I called them back and they read the stats to me as I had remembered the HP figures, but not all the torque & rpm levels.

I will be getting another dyno run next week as tomorrow I my new 4.08 rearend gets installed and they are doing a rail flush & throttle body cleaning at the dealer of which neither have ever been done so I hope to see an improvement in the numbers just from rail flush and throttle body alone. I had the suspension done this afternoon and I really like it, but it will take some time getting use to as it is a bit bumpy. Extremely tight and solid feeling it feels. I had the springs, toicko blues, 20mm rear sway bar, and all new rubber. It is so nice to not be bouncing around all over the place at 70mph and I have hardly any nose dive during breaking which is really nice.

So after all my mods and with a little luck I am hoping for about 30rwhp more to get to 260rwhp. We shall see in a couple of weeks.

I was really suprised at the 226 & 231 numbers as these numbers indicate I am doing good as new, if not better (I think),as the car has 137K on it, but has been maintained always to the very best. I guess I have nothing wrong going on inside the engine with these numbers which is a little added assurance as I sink all this money into my car.

I just edited the numbers above as per EWT's questions I relistened to the voice mail and got the figures mixed up, but I am almost 100% I have it right per their voicemail.

This is an edit to the original post...here is the link to the dyno graphs which displays the correct numbers as have mistated a few of the numbers last night...

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....page=

[EWT]

Interesting. 4000 rpms is a very low point to make peak HP on a motor with a 6900 rpm redline. What did they use for an rpm pickup? My Supra, which also has a coil/plug setup, has a little wire that can be used for the inductive pickup, but I don't know of a similar wire on the Q45.

Interesting that power went up as you took more runs too. It often goes in the other direction as things heatsoak on the dyno. Was your car fully warm when you did the first run?

Good numbers for a bone stock 137K mile car.

Eric

[rsiwicki]

EWT...thanks for your question and you were correct as I wrote down the numbers initially wrong after listening to their voicemail that they left me. These should be the correct numbers now per their voicemail. I will get the print outs next week to post.

My drove aobut 20 miles to the dyno shop and then the car sat their for about 20 minutes before jumping on the dyno so I think that it was still pretty warm. They said that the numbers should go up as the fluids get hotter and hotter...well at least to a certain point. I guess that is why they only do 3 runs as I asked about doing 4 runs versus 3 and they said that it was pointless as everything should be optimal at the third run. We waited about 10 to 15 minutes between runs with the hood up and a big fan blowing on the engine to try to cool things off.

Also I remember about the graphs and the HP curve looked like an upside down "V" with smooth increase & decreasing slopes while the torque curve shot straight up and then had a slight decrease from 4,600 rpms and on...I rember the ending torque at the end of the 2nd run being 224 @ 6,900 rpm. So a slow decrease from 256.3 to 224 from RPMS 4,600 to 6,900...Hmm what is my slope about -1.4% per rpm. Q45tech said this was an important number but I have no idea on what to compare it to.

[EWT]

EWT...thanks for your question and you were correct as I wrote down the numbers initially wrong after listening to their voicemail that they left me. These should be the correct numbers now per their voicemail. I will get the print outs next week to post.

My drove aobut 20 miles to the dyno shop and then the car sat their for about 20 minutes before jumping on the dyno so I think that it was still pretty warm. They said that the numbers should go up as the fluids get hotter and hotter...well at least to a certain point. I guess that is why they only do 3 runs as I asked about doing 4 runs versus 3 and they said that it was pointless as everything should be optimal at the third run. We waited about 10 to 15 minutes between runs with the hood up and a big fan blowing on the engine to try to cool things off.

Also I remember about the graphs and the HP curve looked like an upside down "V" with smooth increase & decreasing slopes while the torque curve shot straight up and then had a slight decrease from 4,600 rpms and on...I rember the ending torque at the end of the 2nd run being 224 @ 6,900 rpm. So a slow decrease from 256.3 to 224 from RPMS 4,600 to 6,900...Hmm what is my slope about -1.4% per rpm. Q45tech said this was an important number but I have no idea on what to compare it to.

Cool. That makes more sense. If they were taking that much time between pulls, heat soak shouldn't have been an issue.

[Q45tech]

224 lb/ft at 6900 rpm is = 294 RWHP...........something wrong with numbers. Weird. ...........maybe 170-175 lb/ft [224-230 RWHP] at 6900 rpm on a world class spectacular day........efficiency really falls off above 6,000 rpm

I would be very very VERY surprised to see over a 240 lb/ft peak and over 265 lb/feet [SAE corrected] with any mods [loud exhaust , cool air, and ecu at any rpm.

You gotta watch dyno [run sellers] operators.

[elwesso]

RSI- Is it safe to say your Q is running 100%???

This sounds like it is to me, 230 are good numbers!!!

[AZ94Q]

224 lb/ft at 6900 rpm is = 294 RWHP...........something wrong with numbers. Weird. ...........maybe 170-175 lb/ft [224-230 RWHP] at 6900 rpm on a world class spectacular day........efficiency really falls off above 6,000 rpm

I would be very very VERY surprised to see over a 240 lb/ft peak and over 265 lb/feet [SAE corrected] with any mods [loud exhaust , cool air, and ecu at any rpm.

You gotta watch dyno [run sellers] operators.

Q45tech

I think are you confused.. Those were his RWHP numbers, not crank...

I don't see how those numbers are off.. Everyone claims old Q45s run stronger.... There are many posts on this subject..

His HP and torque are basically stock and slighty stronger..

Actually, I think I am confused. I don't understand what Q45 tech is saying at all..

[rsiwicki]

I know I got the max hp & torque amounts correctly as per their voicemail and my memory, but I am not certain about the RPM figures per their voicemail and the 6,900 as I am just remembering from what I can see on the screen so this may not be correct and I may have been looking at the wrong side of the axis on the graph as on the left they had the HP scale & on the right the torque scale. I may have mismatched the wrong curve with the worng axis....in other words, I might have drew a line from the hp curve to the torque scale axis which would give a higher number....Geez I don't know anymore. I will call them first thing to try to get them to fax and maybe if they have email to email a copy of the graphs to post, but I do remember the "max" HP & torque figures correctly as stated above.

BTW....this was a non-moding shop where they don't do any mods what so ever and all they do is fix cars, but not mod them. The owner of the shop just likes speed and playing around with dyno numbers so he installed the dyno about a year ago and use it personally and for customer cars who are curious. I have two dyno appointments next week....one with the same outfit and the other with the best tuner in South Florida and my car will be exactly the same on both days so I will know if there is something screwy about the dyno.

[EWT]

224 lb/ft at 6900 rpm is = 294 RWHP...........something wrong with numbers. Weird. ...........maybe 170-175 lb/ft [224-230 RWHP] at 6900 rpm on a world class spectacular day........efficiency really falls off above 6,000 rpm

I would be very very VERY surprised to see over a 240 lb/ft peak and over 265 lb/feet [SAE corrected] with any mods [loud exhaust , cool air, and ecu at any rpm.

You gotta watch dyno [run sellers] operators.

Q45tech

I think are you confused.. Those were his RWHP numbers, not crank...

I don't see how those numbers are off.. Everyone claims old Q45s run stronger.... There are many posts on this subject..

His HP and torque are basically stock and slighty stronger..

Actually, I think I am confused. I don't understand what Q45 tech is saying at all..

If you know horsepower or torque at a given rpm, you can compute the other one using the following formula:

Horsepower = (rpm X torque)/5252

which plugging in the appropriate numbers means:

294 hp = (6900 x 224)/5252 as Q45 tech pointed out

The actual torque at redline has to be quite a bit less than that since a bone stock Q45 is not putting out over 300 hp at the crank at redline.

Eric

[Fastlane]

rsiwicki........ If you don't mind my asking......Who does the work on your car in Miami?--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Fastlane 1996 Q45 / 2000 Q45 Anniversary.

[rsiwicki]

Ahh another Miami guy....I have only used the dealers ever since I bought my car back in 1998 as anytime I ever asked an independent mechanic how many Q's they have worked on and I get the blank look or death of silence over the phone. If I could find a good independent, I would try it out. Otherwise, I pay the extra at the dealer to know that it is in good hands and everything comes with a 12 month / 12,000 mile warranty versus 3 months/3,000 mile warranty. It is a toss up between South Infiniti & Warren Henry, although I think Warren is better for the most part as Warren Henry's service rep diagnosed my knock sensors over the phone while I had previously brought the car to South Inifniti for the same problem 3 times and the last time I had the head master mechanic ride with me in the car to show him that my car was missing....and his response was that it was "normal" for a car with 105K to be missing a little under acceleration. I told him where he could stick that comment and that was that with going to South Infini, but then Warren Henry did not seal my head gasket right after doing the job and I had to ***** at them to get them to repull the heads and reseal everything. Also another time when I took my car to Warren because the valet broke my antenna, so I had them fix it at Warren, only watch me test it right there in the service bay to see if it work and I watched it fall right off the car. Go figure....a simple antenna replacement. So I don't really know who is better or worse, but the head master tech at Warren seems a little more intune yet his help may need a tune up of themselves. I will see what happens tomorrow when Warren fixes my car and installs my new rearend. If you have anybody good....shoot me an email.

[Fastlane]

Thanks for the reply..... I've used both as well. I got my first Infiniti (94 J30T) from Warren Henry, there was a great service rep there who took great care of me. Unfortunately that car got totaled and I got the 96Q from South and later the 2000Q. I haven't had any major problems (90k) and since they are close to me I have been using them.

I was hoping you found the Miami version of Q45Tech's place. If I here of anyone , I'll let you know.

[rsiwicki]

I decided to post this here as well. Okay...I got the pics this morning and scanned them in. Please check out the link as I could not figure out how to post the pics in here becuase they were too big of files.

At least I got the max HP & Torque figures right, but I don't like what I see about the dropoff as I approach the redline. Torque at about redline is around 160lbs. Hopefully all these figures make sense now to everyone as I did get the axis confused with the curves on the numbers that I posted above.

If anybody knows of why I get such a large dropoff after peaking, please comment asap as I have the car at the dealer today and will want them to look into it while it is there.

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....page=

BTW...the service rep & master mechanic said "oh sheeitt" when he saw all the work to be done and said that my car will not be ready until Monday.

I will definetly be paying a visit to Q45tech this summer as these guys down here are just not capable of servicing crap. I can't believe a dealership that has the Jags, Volvo, & Infiniti all in one place don't have the ability to do a "tack" weld. They told me that they don't have any type of welding stuff. Also, the master mechanic still refused to do a rail flush and then told me the machine was broken anyway so it can't be done just to shut me up. I wish I could fly Q45tech down here to show him what a real mechanic is all about.

I really need my new rearend as I got owned this morning by some Mitsubishi Mirage crap thing that was done up to look like one of those Subuera's WRX's. I thought I had him from about 20 on and then he just kept running away from me. I could not figure it out....maybe he had some NOS or something as the car looked liek one of those fast & furious cars.

[EWT]

I really need my new rearend as I got owned this morning by some Mitsubishi Mirage crap thing that was done up to look like one of those Subuera's WRX's. I thought I had him from about 20 on and then he just kept running away from me. I could not figure it out....maybe he had some NOS or something as the car looked liek one of those fast & furious cars.

If it was an EVO, that's not surprising. They are quick. A good driver can get a high 13 @ 102ish out of one bone stock. I got to drive a friend's at Thunderhill raceway about a month ago. Amazing cars for the money.

Eric

[rsiwicki]

okay....so maybe it was this EVO thing. Now I don't feel so bad, but that guy sure did like showing me up as I was not even trying to race him...just the normal medium hard take off that I usually do from a red light and all of a sudden I hear this EVO thing screaming to catchup and I decide to floor it from there and let the race begin...well it was good until he got a car length ahead of me from coming about 2 car lengths behind me. I will have to watch out for those EVO's more often.

EWT & Others... what do you think about the dyno runs now that I got the pics posted. I think that the numbers make much more sense, but I am concerned about the drop in torque. The HP does not seem to be dropping all that bad, but I would like some comments while my car is at the dealer just incase there is something that they can do while it is there.

[Q45tech]

"but I don't like what I see about the dropoff as I approach the redline. Torque at about redline is around 160lbs"

160 lb/ft is a very very very good number for a 96Q at 6,900 rpm = 210 RWHP..........that would be close to 266 HP at flywheel. Probably unrealistic. Now I can believe 160 lb/ft at 6500 rpm = 200 RWHP {254 flywheel HP].

Think you all are confusing torque and rpm and horsepower.

NO bone stock Q of any year [90-01] has ever hit 300 flywheel horsepower...........300-307 pound feet of torque is possible [in the 90-93].........stock Q have a hard time making 285-290 HP because they are tuned to boost low rpm torque NOT above 5500 rpm horsepower.

Some dyno runs with extremely loud exhaust [no mufflers] and polished TB and Cone filter plus JWT ecu and perfect tune did get to 318 HP [corrected for losses?] at 6150 rpm with the hood open and COLD [40F] air forced by fans onto the air filter element.

By definition the torque peak at what ever rpm is the point of maximum power and it declines 25-30% as you approch redline.The point of max HP is usually 13-15% down from the peak torque.

290 lb/ft x 0.787= 228 R torque x 0.75= 171 [or 228 x 0.7= 160]

[rsiwicki]

thanks for your comments Q45tech...but I am not up to your technical level of all these auto terms....so in summary I have the questions...

1. is my car running good overall given the curvature of the HP & torque?2. Do I need to worry about the rate of decrease in torque @ 6,500rpms? If so, would a throttle body cleaning help or plenum cleaning do the trick?3. Do the max HP & Torque makes sense and are realalistic figures for my car at the indicated rpms?

Sorry for the additional questions Q45tech...but I am still learning the ropes on this stuff.

[EWT]

EWT & Others... what do you think about the dyno runs now that I got the pics posted. I think that the numbers make much more sense, but I am concerned about the drop in torque. The HP does not seem to be dropping all that bad, but I would like some comments while my car is at the dealer just incase there is something that they can do while it is there.

The link you posted doesn't work for me, but dropping off a bunch towards redline is normal, especially for a stock motor.

[Q45tech]

Even with 33-35% loss of peak torque it always makes sense to run to redline since the gear ratio drop after a shift always exceeds even the diminished torque multiplied.

160 x 1.48[2nd gear]= 237lb/ft vs 220 x 1.00[3rd gear]= 220 lb/ft

Now obviously a dirty intake [weak plugs] or other obstructions might cause the above 6,000 rpm torque to fall faster so it might make sense to shift before redline.......Probably why the transmission wants to shift at 6400-6500 just to leave some margin for non optimum cleanliness and to avoid the possibility of sluggishness reving the engine so slow that one hits the rev limiter before the shift is complete.

[rsiwicki]

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....page=

okay...this link should work

[Rex]

Click for bigger pic

rsiwicki try this for inserting a "hosted" pic [php][/php]

See link in sig for more info about uploading/posting pics.

[rsiwicki]

Dyno #1 Run

[rsiwicki]

Dyno #2 Run

[rsiwicki]

Rex...thanks for the instructions on how to post, but I got it way too large. How did you get it to do the "click the picture to enlarge" thing. I did not see that in the instructions.

[Q45tech]

Both curves above 4600 rpm look too SMOOTH to me [normally two peaks 5500 and 6,000 rpm with a dip between them] and the AF graph doesn't appear to have the normal undulations and peak richness. But the software contains a smoothing function which could be set wrong.

I still feel there is some kind of calibration error in the torque/dyno..........256 lb/ft is just too good..... for a 95Q

But who knows, I've been wrong before [not on dynos].......then again 8-10% [accurracy is all you can expect from dynos, regardless of what the manufacturer says.

A good [bad] operator can make it read what ever they want.

Stopwatch your WOT [floor it at 40 mph] 50-80 mph 6 times.....the average RW torque would be 221 [from the dyno graph] for that to be true you should do the acceleration in 5.3-5.4 seconds.

[Rex]

Rex...thanks for the instructions on how to post, but I got it way too large. How did you get it to do the "click the picture to enlarge" thing. I did not see that in the instructions.

Wrap this around the "IMG"

[php][/php]

It may be better to quote my post to see how I accomplished it as the "php" tags show some things exactly and change others to a "reference" html type tag.

Or simply replace the "("s with "["'s(url=http://www.big_file_location.com](img]http://www.smaller_file_location.com(/img](/url]

[rsiwicki]

thanks for the tip Rex....

Q45tech..I would do the 50-80 mph time test, but my car is in the shop and when I get it back it will have the new 4.08 rearend so I don't think that this method will work. I think for now that I have a good base point to start with on my HP & Torque, even though it might be off, it will allow me to judge the impact of my mods as the degree of inaccurracy should be the same between different dyno runs for the different days since it will be at the same place on the same machine with the same operator.

I have an appointment on Friday morning with the best dyno shop in South Florida and this dyno should give me the most accurate results.

BTW....the dealer called this afternoon to tell me that they will not start working on my car until Monday...that sucks, but I will be sure to take advantage of ragging out the G35 sedan that they gave me to drive. I already tried the shift stick and I am not impressed as I would have thought that shifts when using that mode would be a lot quicker to respond. Maybe some other G35 owners can comment, but I did not think that it reacted any differently than manually moving my cars stick around to the different gears and I actually thought that my car reacted a bit quicker when I tell it to go into a certain gear...but then again I could be wrong as I am not familar with the car yet enough.

[AZhitman]

Hey Rob - Guess what just got delivered to my house?

[rsiwicki]

yeah...but where the heck is my new arse (rearend). It was suppose to be here by noon via UPS and UPS can't find the dang thing. All I have got to say is #$$%&*%^%$##!~!!!!!!!! And then some more ##$%^*&*^%!!!!!! This really is getting to me. First it was my wheels, now it is my rearend. Go figure. Kevin said that they spoke with UPS several times today and nobody knows where it is. Good thing is that it was fully insured so I am only out my core monies, but that really sucks and we have to wait till Monday to see if it some how mysteriously shows up. And to think that I stopped at PepBoys tonight to pickup the proper weight gear oil to give to the dealer so that they put in the right gear oil on Monday.

Well let us know how your new arse works as I am dying to know. Check out the 4.08 thread as I posted on there the part number you need from Nissan for the speedo gear and how to install it.

[Fastlane]

rsiwicki.........When you are ready for Moroso let me know. I would be interested to know what mine will do..... I'd like to see your car when it's ready, you are doing all the things I would like to do. Send me an email, we will get together....... Maybe a South Fl. Infiniti meet at Moroso.