Crew '99.9% sure' they've found Noah's Ark - Real or Hoax?

[lino]

Expedition crew in Turkey is 99.9 percent sure it's uncovered the remains.

'Wooden chambers are still intact,' say a group of explorers claiming to have uncovered remnants.

http://cosmos.bcst.yahoo.com/up/player/ ... canadanews

[numbnuts240]

haven't they "found" the ark a few times already?

[Doya]

I'm not buying it.

[sentrastace]

"the wood carbon dates back to the time that Noah was afloat"....

[numbnuts240]

what if i throw in the garden of eden, aaaand atlantis? we got a deal?

[PapaSmurf2k3]

haven't they "found" the ark a few times already?

+1
"The first thing they would have done would have been take the boat apart and make a building from it... wood would have been scarce. I wouldn't be looking for Noah's Ark, I would be looking for Noah's first building"- Dr. Klein

Dude makes way too much sense.

[sx moneypit]

what if i throw in the garden of eden, aaaand atlantis? we got a deal?

Throw in Eve and you got a deal.

[seang]

I guess if they were only 99.8% sure nobody would take them seriously.

[AZhitman]

Whether it is or isn't, it's pretty cool. Archaeology is good stuff, regardless of the motivation.

A little ironic that the Turkish are "going along" with the ark story, but that gets us into a whole different debate and history lesson.

People will pooh-pooh this, just like all other Christian discussions, without thinking outside the box. One need not be a believer to concur that, yes, the "world" as those people knew it was flooded beyond comprehension, yes, a guy built an ark on direction from his God, and yes, he and his immediate family were at least partially responsible for repopulating the region (again, the "world" as they knew it).

Take a little Sunday school, a little science, some archaeology, a little understanding of ancient history, and some historical geopolitial awareness, and things all make a lot more sense (and are a lot less threatening).

Or, you can poke your head in the sand and refuse to learn.

[numbnuts240]

what if i throw in the garden of eden, aaaand atlantis? we got a deal?

Throw in Eve and you got a deal.

that apple eating jezebel? you can have her.

[sx moneypit]

[SHIFT_COUPE]

There have been groups that have claimed this already. IMO, you aren't going to find much remnants of a ship that is dated that old. What really gets me is that creationists don't believe in the scientific validity of carbon dating. Most say that the real results of any experiment using this technology to prove age is that they "aren't that old". YET, in this article they are using this technology! /end rant. Don't want to upset anyone. This thread is borderline religion discussion, hope it doesn't go too far.

[numbnuts240]

*cough* avatar *cough*

[AZhitman]

Owned.

[SHIFT_COUPE]

Yeah yeah, probably not an appropriate avatar

[numbnuts240]

oh damn, wasn't trying to call you out on inappropriateness, just found it funny. i's sowwee.

[SHIFT_COUPE]

Oh no its cool. This is a car forum after all, just want to keep it that way. I can go push my Darwinist beliefs elsewhere on the net

[numbnuts240]

sounds like you need jeebus in your life

[PBfrEAk]

Take a little Sunday school, a little science, some archaeology, a little understanding of ancient history, and some historical geopolitial awareness, and things all make a lot more sense (and are a lot less threatening).

Or, you can poke your head in the sand and refuse to learn.

+ 1 BILLION!!!!

This is the reason you are the captain of this ship sir.

And yes, the archeological aspect of this is interesting as hell.

[PoorManQ45]

I'm not buying it.

Drift wood is quite expensive!

[Dattebayo]

Archaeologists like old wood.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

SO if this really was the Ark...would Christianity cease to be a faith? I guess you have to believe the researchers in the first place. But if you know a portion of the bible was true...doesn't that take away the fundamental aspect of the religion?
These kind of "discoveries" always get to me. They find a ruin or artifact somewhere in the middle east and with sketchy reasoning tie it to some historic religious event. I don't doubt it's a really old ship, and that makes for interesting archaeology...but rationally identifying it based on an inherrently irrational idea doesn't make much sense. Besides, dates in the bible are completely open to interpretation, so saying it was from Noah's time also makes no sense.

[AZhitman]

SO if this really was the Ark...would Christianity cease to be a faith? I guess you have to believe the researchers in the first place. But if you know a portion of the bible was true...doesn't that take away the fundamental aspect of the religion?

Nope. But you ask damn good questions.

I'll address this head-on, as a non-religious person (albeit one with a strong faith):

Here's the thing - TONS of stuff in the Bible is accurate per historians (even secular), archaeologists (even secular), researchers (even secular), geneologists (even secular), etc.

Noah's a side story.

So, to answer the question: if you know a portion of the bible was true...doesn't that take away the fundamental aspect of the religion? The answer is no.

It's pretty widely accepted and supported by historical research (even secular sources) that there was a man named Jesus, from Nazareth, born in abject poverty, who took up a ministry in his late 20's, traveled, taught, and attracted large groups of people. His sermons are reported in secular historical texts, as are his travels. The Crucifixion is even a given, and you'd be hard-pressed to find a historan with a brain who'd dispute that occurrence...

So, the faith portion is separate.

Does that help?

BTW, the same holds true for the other major faiths, if you study them.

[AZhitman]

They find a ruin or artifact somewhere in the middle east and with sketchy reasoning tie it to some historic religious event.

Again, as a non-religious person (with a strong faith), I'm right there with ya - The one that REALLY aggravates the piss outta me is the Shroud of Turin.

Good Lord, (no pun intended) people! THAT one can be debunked at home! It's an embarassment, honestly. Every time I see a show about it, I want to smack the people who are wasting their time sampling it, and testing it, and preserving it...

Anyway, I've probably upset someone, somewhere, so I'll zipit.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Just curious...but where did you learn that most of the bible events were true? Most of the research has been funded by religious organizations...and it's hard to beleive the most biased people on Earth.
ALso...how do you explain dates in the bible that has vague references, if any? The fact is events in the bible have no reliable time scale. You say Noah is a side story...yet most of the other stuff is "true"? If the Bible is supposed to be the true account of the Word of God...why did the Authors include stories like that?
I'm rambling...

WHat I meant was that if you know aspects of your faith are verifiably true, it ceases to be a faith. If you give proof to the Word of God, it invalidates the faith involved and evolves into a science. Which makes all these research projects a complete waste of time.

If you think your religion needs to be validated....you aren't truly involved in a Faith. On the other side of the coin, if you are trying to disprove the lunacy of religion...you are only verifying your own reluctance to submit to a greater Power.
So I guess ignorance is the base and antitheses of Faith.
I'll shut up now...my head hurts.

[AZhitman]

Just curious...but where did you learn that most of the bible events were true?

I already answered that above. Lots of reading.

Most of the research has been funded by religious organizations

Uhhh, no. There's no conspiracy. I explained above - Historians, theologians, archaeologists, are pretty solid on the historical accounts. Read more.

...and it's hard to beleive the most biased people on Earth.

Who are they? Cynics? Barbers? Potato farmers? Lesbians? Did you conduct a poll?

That's a pretty biased generalization in and of itself. I'm keeping this above board, and am not interested i getting into a pissing match over your closed-mindedness.

ALso...how do you explain dates in the bible that has vague references, if any? The fact is events in the bible have no reliable time scale.

You're terrified of dealing with this topic, so I'll be gentle.

The truth is, you're way wrong. The events actually follow a very well-researched and well-validated timeline. This includes references to mentions of specific geopolitical events, such as battles, rulers in power, births and deaths, even weather incidents.

WHat I meant was that if you know aspects of your faith are verifiably true, it ceases to be a faith.

Nope.

A lack of faith is a faith in and unto itself. A belief in nothing. Which is fine.

But like I said above, if the mere mention of Noah in the Bible wasn't a good enough example, how about Julius Caesar? He's mentioned in the Bible.

Certainly you wouldn't argue his existence (although, YOU really don't know, YOU have faith that he did... ). So, we got Caesar chillin' up there in the Book of Something and all of a sudden there's no room for faith?

Nope.

If you think your religion needs to be validated....you aren't truly involved in a Faith.

I don't, but many do. They waste their time, I think. Then again, I'm not "religious".

Then again, look who brought religion INTO this (cynics). Certainly not the archaeologists. They're just saying they found Old Dude's boat.

I'll shut up now...my head hurts.

Yeah, that would be best. A couple of your last comments were off-putting and arrogant, to say the least.

if you are trying to disprove the lunacy of religion...you are only verifying your own reluctance to submit to a greater Power.

...if you are trying to prove the lunacy of religion...you are only verifying your fear that there just might be a greater Power. ( Elsewise, you can just be confident in its fallacy, amirite?)

[Rob.Vegan]

Don't want to upset anyone. This thread is borderline religion discussion, hope it doesn't go too far.

[Pieceofsand]

If you think your religion needs to be validated....you aren't truly involved in a Faith. On the other side of the coin, if you are trying to disprove the lunacy of religion...you are only verifying your own reluctance to submit to a greater Power.

This.

[King Ranzo]

I think religion is just a huge hoax. They place all of these documents in certain places, take pictures, and be like OH OH THE BIBLE SAID IT WAS HERE AND LOOK IT IS HERE! I TOOK PICTURES! HURR DURR

[Mr1der]

what if i throw in the garden of eden, aaaand atlantis? we got a deal?

add El Dorado and you can give me a handjob for the map.