Cain - 2012

[IBCoupe]

It's not the only issue, Stebo, but it's the one that's most glaringly obvious. Right of Return demonstrates real stupidity and/or laziness on Cain's part, but it takes more digging to find that value than, "I won't hire Muslims because they're not patriots."

Most recently, he was telling all of us that we need to read the Constitution. Obviously, most of us do because Mr. Cain found some language that nobody knew was in there before:

We don’t need to rewrite the Constitution of the United States of America, we need to reread the Constitution and enforce the Constitution. … And I know that there are some people that are not going to do that, so for the benefit of those who are not going to read it because they don’t want us to go by the Constitution, there’s a little section in there that talks about “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.”

You know, those ideals that we live by, we believe in, your parents believed in, they instilled in you. When you get to the part about “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness,” don’t stop there, keep reading. Cause that’s when it says “when any form of government becomes destructive of those ideals, it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it.” We’ve got some altering and some abolishing to do!

[stebo0728]

Thank you. Now we're getting somewhere. Rehashing the same old stuff is tiresome, but now you've brought something new.

So, speaking to your quote, I assume your arguments would be as follows:
First the excerpts he's quoted come from the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution, and the Declaration of Independence is not our instrument of law, the Constitution is. Secondly, if he doesnt know the difference between the two, he's not fit for office.

Assuming I'm right, thats a reasonable argument to make. I would argue, but dont know for sure, that he does know the difference, but chose to make the point he made for effect. This does not necessarily excuse it or make it ok. It shows he's capable of the same antics the rest of the guys pull. That actually adds a negative mark on the wall for me, as part of his appeal for me is his appearance to break the mold of the standard politician.

If I'm wrong and he truely doesnt know the difference, then that's another negative mark on the wall. I dont know that it discounts him completely for me, but it does make me think a bit.

These are the sort of things we need to discuss, the tiresome racial antics are a bore.

[stebo0728]

But I'll add, even with his statement having mis-attributed the Declaration quote to the Constitution, the point is well made. Though we are not governed by the Declaration, we do as a society need to hold our government accountable and demand the excellence we deserve. I dont know exactly how much actual altering or abolishing is called for, if any. Mostly just a flush of the tiresome career politicians, the ones that resemble the atrophied muscles of a bedridden body.

[IBCoupe]

My point was that this is just another in a long line of stupid things he's said. Either it was pandering and trying to play on ignorance, or it was a display of ignorance.

Seriously, this guy's a loser.

[HashiriyaS14]

Cain didn't know what the "right of return" was in regards to Palestine. He looked like a bozo.

This guy is not a viable candidate. I don't think he's dumb, but there's just a certain threshold of policy familiarity you need to have to be President, and he doesn't have it and won't by 11/12.

[IBCoupe]

He's at it again.

During a question and answer session in Pella, IA this afternoon, ThinkProgress asked Cain if he would be opposed to appointing a qualified gay person to serve in his cabinet. Cain said he would have no problem appointing someone who was openly gay, then immediately refreshed his anti-Muslim rhetoric. Leaning in conspiratorially, Cain explained gay appointees are “not going to try to put sharia laws in our laws,” before laughing.

[szh]

He's at it again.

During a question and answer session in Pella, IA this afternoon, ThinkProgress asked Cain if he would be opposed to appointing a qualified gay person to serve in his cabinet. Cain said he would have no problem appointing someone who was openly gay, then immediately refreshed his anti-Muslim rhetoric. Leaning in conspiratorially, Cain explained gay appointees are “not going to try to put sharia laws in our laws,” before laughing.

I guess that would rule out appointing gay Muslims then.

Sigh ... what an idiot.

Z

[AppleBonker]

I think I might have more respect for him if he said he would be opposed to appointing gays to serve in his cabinet because they risk spreading the "gay infection". At least that would be consistent...

[srellim234]

Talking about people speaking from ignorance, did you see Sarah Palin's latest?

http://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2011/ ... -in-grave/

[IBCoupe]

In fairness to her, most of us base our Paul Revere knowledge on Longfellow's poem, which played fast and loose with the facts, and was meant as a parable in Longfellow's time: the American Civil War.

[srellim234]

The real story doesn't mention warning the British, only that he stopped at each house between Boston and Lexington before getting to the house where Adams and Hancock were staying.

http://www.paulreverehouse.org/ride/real.html

Sorry, but I'm not going to give Palin a pass on this since she keeps trying to fabricate the story instead of just admitting she made a mistake. Same thing with Cain, who apparently doesn't know the difference between the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. They should admit they made a mistake OR their deception was deliberate OR they are just plain ignorant.

[IBCoupe]

Oh, I agree. Her continued attempt to spin means the slack I cut her is getting quickly eaten up. But the initial thing? Didn't bother me as much.

Being confused about the minutiae of history is one thing, but doubling down on your previous confusion is just stupid.

[szh]

Oh, I agree. Her continued attempt to spin means the slack I cut her is getting quickly eaten up. But the initial thing? Didn't bother me as much.

Being confused about the minutiae of history is one thing, but doubling down on your previous confusion is just stupid.

Agreed.

It was a trivial mistake ... until she tried to defend and justify it. Then it does look stupid.

Z

[szh]

In fairness to her, most of us base our Paul Revere knowledge on Longfellow's poem, which played fast and loose with the facts, and was meant as a parable in Longfellow's time: the American Civil War.

My son had to read the poem for his 6th grade class last year: http://poetry.eserver.org/paul-revere.html.

But even that does not mention bells being rung or warning the British.

Z

[stebo0728]

Well, I didnt get to watch last night, and havent had time to google it. But from what I hear, it was pretty much a hatefest for Obama. Mr. Cain got the least amount of questions, but hey, someone had to I guess, thats nothing to whine about. I hear that they drummed him on his muslim comments, and the audio I caught sounded pretty solid, so again thats non issue for me. But it seems that issue may be what dooms him, as the liberal media has caught on to drumming it home.

So who knew what the hell he was talking about on the SS question? Anyone? I loved his response to that, and I've been screaming privatization for a decade or more. Too bad the government went and closed the Galveston loop hole so no one else could prosper.

I'll comment some more as I catch up on the debate footage, perhaps in the other debate thread helio started. I'm still behind Cain, but I do start to see his demise forming. Too bad, I really think he would do the most good. But then again its still early, plenty can still happen.

[AZhitman]

He wasn't even a contender. Seriously, he got clobbered. Lots of words with minimal realistic meaning - kinda like BHO.

...and people are STILL babbling about Palin? <sigh> I hate the TMZ generation.

[HashiriyaS14]

No, just tired of rehashing it repeatedly. If its the only arrow in your quiver, I understand you might pull it out a bit more frequently, but still, we've dealt with it here, and I'm moving on. Further references will be met, at least by me, with subsequent facepalms.

He's allowed to be offended by it as it applies to him personally.

If Cain had said "all Z32 drivers are F4GGOTS", you'd probably hold a grudge too. It's the same. Really.

[bigbadberry3]

http://news.yahoo.com/herman-cain-tenne ... 45303.html

Just a sequel.

[szh]

http://news.yahoo.com/herman-cain-tenne ... 45303.html

Just a sequel.

Just amazingly plain stupid. Building a mosque does not "infuse" Sharia law into the US legal system. What planet is he living on?

Z

[IBCoupe]

He's going all out on this. I've seen so many Herman Cain headlines on Fark recently that it's tiresome. He figures that he already stepped in it and stepped in it good, that the best thing to do is to exploit the bigot vote.

Which is an odd tactic for the one black Republican in the race to try.

[heliochrome85]

http://andrewsullivan.thedailybeast.com ... ndard.html

[stebo0728]

Bump.

And my horse ran a good race in the FL Straw Poll! Makes Perry and Romney look like chums. I think America is starting to say "so what" to the political experience argument. Hell they already looked the other way for Obama. Still dont KNOW if he'll pull ahead, doubtful but hopeful.

[IBCoupe]

Straw polls never impress me. If they meant something, RON PAUL would have been Emperor of America by now. What impressed me about Cain today was this:

CBS News: Herman Cain splits with House GOP, says find FEMA offsets later

"There's plenty of money in Washington, D.C. to offset anything that we need to spend on FEMA," Cain said on CNN Monday. "I would make sure that FEMA got the money that it needed, and if I have to go find the offsets later, find it later."

I still think he's twerpish on Muslims, but at least he's got the guts to suggest responsible policy.

[stebo0728]

Ya, I know we're not gonna shake the muslim thing here. It doesnt bother me, especially in light of what he has in his repertoire to balance it. I think if you set that aside (and maybe you cant, but just maybe) then I think you would like him a bit more. Though I will say I'm a little skeptical of his new "9-9-9 Plan", which in short would replace the current tax code with (A) 9% personal income tax (B) 9% Corporate Income Tax (C) 9% National retail sales tax. I liked him a bit more when he just stood behind the FairTax as is, BUT, I do respect his ability to be the only candidate bold enough to present real reform, whether its good reform or not remains to be seen. The only part I dont like is the 9% corprate component, as corporate taxation is about as real as the tooth fairy.

To me, he's the only consistent candidate, I simply DO NOT count his lack of political experience as a fault, but rather its part of what I like about him. Again, I'm not even beginning to count his chickens. I believe he's the best shot we have to get this ship turned around, and he'll have my primary vote, and he'll have my general election vote as well if he gets the nomination. I wish he would break the mold again, and go ahead and preemptively recruit Rubio as his committed running mate. That would only be better for him in my estimation.

[IBCoupe]

Hehe. Hitler finds out about Herman Cain...

[stebo0728]

http://www.gallup.com/poll/149924/Perry ... -+Politics

[stebo0728]

Well tonight should be interesting. I think Cain will be pretty front and center. I think the moderators will try their best to trap him and get him out of Perrys way. I dont think it will work. Cant wait to see the smoke clear tomorrow.

[heliochrome85]

seeing how every GOP candidate has had their rise and fall, its only a matter of time for his fall to occur.

[telcoman]

Well tonight should be interesting. I think Cain will be pretty front and center. I think the moderators will try their best to trap him and get him out of Perrys way. I dont think it will work. Cant wait to see the smoke clear tomorrow.

Cain is almost gone

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/ ... ain&st=cse

Inside the Cain Tax Plan
By BRUCE BARTLETT

Bruce Bartlett held senior policy roles in the Reagan and George H.W. Bush administrations and served on the staffs of Representatives Jack Kemp and Ron Paul.


“Even allowing for the poorly thought through promises routinely made on the campaign trail, Mr. Cain’s tax plan stands out as exceptionally ill conceived.”

I have to assume Bruce knows more and has a better understanding of the scam Cain is attempting to pass on to The American people than many others?

Bye Bye Cain

Telcoman

[stebo0728]

Sorry Telco, I've followed Bruce's treatment of the FairTax for a while, and since he COMPLETELY lacks any form of understanding of the plan, or either just likes misrepresenting it, I dont put any weight at all in any of his opinion, especially of Cain and his 9-9-9 Plan (the FairTax's red carpet). If Bruce decides to get his head of of his a** maybe he can provide some acceptable commentary.

And Cain is far from almost done. Hes actually got a better shot than Perry or Romney now, in my estimation, unless he blows it. Time will tell.