ca + ae86

[tyrannix]

its been done before. but im going to do it too

once i finish building the ca20, if i like it in the s13, then the ca18 thats in there now will more than likely go into the corolla... as a 250whp corolla is scary from everyone ive heard from, and it would be a shame to let this engine just sit.

(unless of course i build the extra CA thats disassembled and sitting on a shelf right now)

ive found a few resources (most aussie and in japanese) but ill post up progress as it happens (wont be until summer or fall)

but this is just my final decision (no, didnt have to use any lifelines) on wether i wanted to go 20v, rotary, or CA for the corolla

(stuck in california for another year and a half, 20v == not legal , and rotaries, with all their appeal and lack of moving parts would be great to learn, but not for this project.... and then ill have an extra engine just sitting)

CJ

[mikesim]

my friend has a turbo AE. it's damned scary.

4AGZE swapped then s/c removed and turbo with FJO EMS.

http://www.dorikaze.com/showthread.php?t=13888

[iliketocrash]

how is the 20v not legal but a rotary is? i'm just curious. i have no idea about california emission laws.

[tyrannix]

its because a 13b anyway was released on a USDM car, whereas a 20v 4age was not (same as how an SR isnt legal)as far as i know thats how it works

CJ

edit> yeah, im going to snag an SSAC manifold for the 4age and stick on another gtir t28 (biggest usable extra turbo in my garage) probably with some stock CA IC/pipes

edit> as luck would have it, i had a bastard of a bolt that snapped, so i welded a nut onto it, then it snapped flush with the head, then i drilled out a bit and the extractor snapped... so i have a second head at the machine shop right now getting decked and a valve job, for a head swap ASAP... perfect opportunity to weld a bung onto the oil pan, and if i replace the stock oil cooler with one like is going on the CA, i should be fine without coolant lines for the turbo .. i wont be boosting more than 10psi on the 4AGE anyway. im a big fan of the philosophy that when something breaks, it means you need to upgrade .... to prevent it from breaking again of course




Modified by tyrannix at 5:17 PM 5/9/2006

[anumeric]

I'm currently loving my ca so I have thought about swapping one into my hachi as well for my next project. I was leaning towards building up a NA 20v blacktop, but wanted to do some more research on it and look around at the other options out there.

Tyrannix - If you get around to it anytime soon please post some pics.

[dash]

My 'fast' ca18 will end up in a $200 ae86 sr5. CA18 is an excellent powerplant choice for a rolla.Corolla can go 11s on a healthy stock unopened motor.There's a ca18 powered kp61 starlet posted in the 1/4 mile sticky... runs an amazing 11.4sec at only 15psi. Thats %$&*@kin fast.Seen some very hot performing ca18 rollas on the aussie forums to.

Toyota 4ag 16v turbos are very close behind in performance. They typically run 12.5-12.0 in corollas, mod for mod. Don't need a 20v. For what ?I've always been curious about how a 7AG (1.8L) would stack up against a ca18 tho.... but the ca still clearly has some distinct advantages.

[yourmomsrps13]

http://4age.net/events/jam01/027.jpg

[nonchalant rage]

why not on an s12? it would be bolt in depending on which transmission you used

[tyrannix]

true, it would be a straight bolt on, but i already own an ae86, and my ae86 weighs around 2200 (the full package power everything ones are ~2400)ive got manual windows, no sunroof, no AC, no PS 83 sr5 converted to a stock GTS

and from everything ive read, s12s weigh about as much as s13s (~2650+ depending on options)

450 lbs less is nothing to sneeze at

and theres enough people that have dropped anything you can think of into an ae86 that i will be able to get help where i need it (specs for mounts/driveshaft/diff if i swap that too)

why not on an s12? it would be bolt in depending on which transmission you used

[nonchalant rage]

s12's weigh less than s13's. i think you could get it under 2200 easily just gutting it

[tyrannix]

out of curiosity, do you have an actual curb weight (and of which model) for any s12s?

club s12 says theyre just barely less than s13s

but again, i already own an ae86.. and its already down to 2200 lbs, with full interior

CJ

[nonchalant rage]

the base XE model weighs like 100lbs less than an s13

[tyrannix]

lowest weight s13== zenki no power/AC option coupe @2650

that would make a base s12 weigh in @ 2550?

stock loaded ae86s clock in at 2300

but besides the point that i already have one, and thats what im going to do (if i had an s12, i would try my damndest to drop an FJ into it, just because..... same as if/when i get an s14 or j30, a frankenstein RB30 will be going into it, and a VH into a <95 pathfinder or 4runner .. removable caps FTW)

CJ
Modified by tyrannix at 8:32 AM 5/26/2006

[tyrannix]

ive been a busy little bee scouring the aussie forums, and trying to get ahold of a few people now

this swap may be even easier than i thought, it appears that one guy (who competes with it) used RB motor mounts, and then just had to do a custom driveshaft

and with a CA transmission the shifter sits around 45 mm too far back, but if you use an RB20 transmission on a CA bellhousing, it moves the shifter forward to use the stock hole location

and this, a stock CA into an ae86 got him 12s in the 1/4 mile.. turning it into even more of a go-kart.

this is what ive gathered sofar in message board archives, trying to actually get ahold of some of the people now.

CJ

[1fast200]

My 'fast' ca18 will end up in a $200 ae86 sr5. CA18 is an excellent powerplant choice for a rolla.Corolla can go 11s on a healthy stock unopened motor.There's a ca18 powered kp61 starlet posted in the 1/4 mile sticky... runs an amazing 11.4sec at only 15psi. Thats %$&*@kin fast.Seen some very hot performing ca18 rollas on the aussie forums to.

Toyota 4ag 16v turbos are very close behind in performance. They typically run 12.5-12.0 in corollas, mod for mod. Don't need a 20v. For what ?I've always been curious about how a 7AG (1.8L) would stack up against a ca18 tho.... but the ca still clearly has some distinct advantages.

Update : I just did 11.10 sec @ 122 mph!

[tyrannix]

in a CA corolla? or was it your starlet?

CJ

Update : I just did 11.10 sec @ 122 mph!

[1fast200]

That engine is in a 1984 , 4 door Starlet that I built and tune for a customer.

RYSO.

[dash]

Once again, representing for the CA.With the 'right mix' & brains, good things can happen. Car is flyin'A perfect case of "doing more with less". Excellent work!

what did you do different from the 11.4sec run..... more boost ?

[1fast200]

Less wheelstands , I replaced rear shocks and changed coilspring height, it helpt lower the 60feet about 1 tenth of a sec.

I must say that I lost traction @ mid track due to bad track!

Boost was around 17lbs. Datalog/laptop cable popped out after hard launch

Still BONE stock motor, streetlegal, full body Starlet.



RYSO.

[tyrannix]

update on the corolla:

after a big vacation away from cars except a rental (honeymoon) and a trip to the local pick and pull today yielded a new find, a sad little automatic sr5 coupe. and it was all there except the front bumper

so im not going to sell mine quite yet, im going to grab the fenders/headlights and see if my 'frame tweak' is actually just misaligned body panels... im going ot stay on teh lookout for a new, decent priced ae86, but if the new panels and headlights line up ... i am going to end up keeping it and working with what i have then the front subframe so i can start mating it to a CA block (as a bonus, i get to keep power steering if i want to now, the junk rolla has a decent-shape looking PS rack)

i would have scavenged it all today, except i was on a time crunch, only had time to get what i went for, a quick brake caliper grab

so the focus is shifting (except grabbing those parts) entirely to getting the s13 out of the garage, so the corolla can go in and get the treatment it diserves to become the track slut it really wants to become

as a bonus, i saw a 4 speed manual transmission mated to a stock engine 90 240sx, with the shifter a few inches too far forward, i may grab it (and the driveshaft) and see what i can do with them) ... the driveshaft was considerably longer tho, that car looked like it may have hit a fire hydrant dead center, just barely tho... again, didnt have time to investigate further, only even noticed it from behind.. the big white shift knob looked a little too high, then the shifter was way too far forward to be stock... along with the canted shift arm

CJ

[tyrannix]

update: yesterdays trip to pick n pull was productive, in 4 hours i stripped a seatbelt, headlights, hood latch, and front subframe (engine cradle) with PS rack

... the engine on the junk car is being supported by the transmission and a tire now

but this cradle will let me start on mating it to a CA block without having an un-pushable pile in front of my house

once done, the KAE will be fitted (should be the same) and installed in the car... after a driveshaft is found/made, it should be moving (and going to wait until i have a CA for it)

CJ

[dash]

since 20V was mentioned among your options.... check this one out.http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2131056/ Its a 1.8L 7A block and crank with aftermarket pistons & rods tho.Nevertheless @330kw/442.5hp at the wheels is around 500 crank... pretty darn impressive, especially if its a stock 20V head/cams.I've always wondered how a ca18det would stack up against a 7AG and mazda BP, pound for pound - battle of the 1.8 litres.CA18 is the cheaper rwd option. I'd luv to see one sing at 27psi on a T4 as this 20v does.

[phleb]

Hey tyrannix, would you mind posting up some of the forums that you are looking through for your info. You have peaked my interest and now I want to know more about this swap.

[tyrannix]

mostly toymods, thats the only one i found actually worth anything (for resource/contact info, not reallky an active forum)

but i got in contact with ae86slut (jeremy) and found what he did to achive his 'drift/circuit' CA18 AE86

apparently he got his front cross member already modified for nissan engines, but inm his own words they are damn close (and ill second it) and wont take much welding to get an ae86 front subframe/engine cradle to fit a KA or CA engine

then the only custom part is the driveshaft (altho rumor has it that an RB transmission == shorter, because a CA/KA/SR transmission will put the shifter too far back, but the RB transmission with CA bellhousing should put the shifter close to stock location on an AE86 and allow stock interior bits

thats all there really is to it. im dropping in a KA24E to my hachi, so it will be ready when i get the ca20det done (either it or the CA18 thats in my s13 will go into the hachi)

CJ

edit>i will have my ae86 on a cardomain page sometime soon too
Modified by tyrannix at 11:12 PM 7/7/2006

[Not_a_sr]

we have a Ca18det here in town thats going into a Ae86, hes getting it rebuilt at the moment , but they are working on the mounts before its sent to the machine shop.

[NICKO@NICO]

hey i just joined the forum and i think it kicks A#$..anyways..i just wanted to say that i have a CA18DE in a KE70 corolla and i am soo glad that i found a place where ppl did almost the same thing as me..

[gtrperformance]

What's really amazing is this is NICO and not 4age.org or toyotanation.com but we're talking about AE86's!!! SWEET!!! I too have a 85 GTS that I am putting a CA18DET into. I did the same research as transmission and came up with the same results. I'm currently trying to work with tophat performance in ATL so I can have the wiring and driveshaft done and maybe even engine and transmission mounts. They would probably mass produce them if the demand was there. Cross your fingers. I dropped off my S13 at top hat to get it wired. It has a RB20DET in it with auto transmission. HARD WORK on that swap. When I get it back I'll throw it in the body shop for the wide body. After that then I'll post PLENTY of PIC's.
Modified by gtrperformance at 9:19 PM 11/3/2006

[themadscientist]

7MGTE

[dat_twinkie]

nice... two aero bumpers damn im jeolous.. i had a 85 gts that looks just like yours.. i sold it to my friend so i can get my ca front clip.. i miss that car, i love the way it handles its a pretty fun car to drive.. this thread is awesome keep it updated.. im planning on getting another hachi or te72 and doing this swap..

[float_6969]

If you ever decide you want to ditch that second aero bumper I'd be all over it...