Butthurt? Ego bruised? Throw acid.

[szh]

I suggest everyone watch the movie "Midnight Express". This combined with that, you'll be ready for war.

A movie - particularly one that many people have agreed has major inaccuracies in it - is supposed to provide education in this regard?

More importantly, the story of the movie is quite disconnected to this thread. I don't want to distract too much from the original point, but if you want to harp on the "poor American guy in a foreign harsh prison" scenario, then consider:

Prison for anybody in Turkey is not a a good place to be in - particular in the seventies, so don't try to smuggle kilos of drugs from there.

French prisons are equally bad places to be - read the book "Catch Me If You Can" by Frank Abagnale for the true account about what happened to him there when he was caught writing bad checks! So ... should we go to war with the French too?

Jail is not supposed to be a nice friendly place to pass your time for crimes. Frankly, it is only in the US that we think that prisoners in jail should be molly-coddled ... most other countries - including in Europe too - are not so benign.

Z

[szh]

I'm lucky to live in America and everyone else that does should be too.

Most definitely! We in the US often do not appreciate our freedoms enough.

Z

[szh]

Reality check ... unfortunately, these kind of insane acid attack acts happen everywhere (in the US too):

San Antonio, Texas: http://blogs.chron.com/newswatch/2010/0 ... d_att.html
Cleveland, Ohio: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/04 ... or_ac.html
Hong Kong: http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/0 ... index.html
India: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7270568.stm
Bangladesh: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/south_asia/5133410.stm
Africa: http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/w ... 5788721635
Ethiopia: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/6498641.stm
Cambodia: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/8576279.stm

It is far more prevalent in Asian and South-East Asian countries, yes ... and the attacks are on the rise too. Inspite of some laws (which are not enforced well) that should be deterrents (death penalty in Bangladesh, "eye for an eye" acid retribution in Pakistan, blinding in Iran: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/middle_east/7754756.stm).

Man's inhumanity to man never ceases to disgust me.

Z

[szh]

Shame on our elected leaders for not DEMANDING harsh punishment for those who commit such atrocities.

And I'm not interested in hearing, "That's none of our business." It IS our business.

Those who refuse to comply can wake up to the screaming of incoming missiles - I bet the women pictured above would welcome a chance to spare others their horrifying fate.

Crazy acts of inhumanity need harsh penalties for sure.

Z

[Jesda]

Prison in Norway:

One of the lowest homicide rates in the world, but upscale prisons do not necessarily cause or deter crime. Or maybe they do? Thoughts?



http://www.mail-archive.com/osint@yahoo ... 49841.html


This reveals one cause of the problem:
http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/60499

The “village justice” phenomenon “becomes possible in country where the basic rule-of-law institutions are completely dysfunctional and reluctant to provide justice to the ordinary people.”

The legal infrastructure isn't there.



Its the kind of barbarism that makes you want to take up a charitable cause, as it should.

[AppleBonker]

We don't have a penal system, we have a "correctional system." Which is broken. Because everyone's too much of an effing p**** to actually punish wrongdoing anymore. You can't "correct" the kind of broken that leads a man to throw acid on a woman's face because she rejected him. But you can sure as hell make it an extremely unappealing option for him by making the punishment very, very scary. Of course, most of the "civilized" world would tell me I'm an inhumane bastard for suggesting such a thing.

QFT. MoD, I don't think you're an inhumane bastard for thinking this as I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, I'm probably in the minority. I say the more creative the punishment, the better. Let's bring back some medieval torture devices and test them out on these d-bags.

Prison in Norway:

One of the lowest homicide rates in the world, but upscale prisons do not necessarily cause or deter crime. Or maybe they do? Thoughts?

I think prisons should be solid concrete and steel, including a slab of concrete for the bed. The prisoners should have no liberties and no privileges. It should be punishment, not free room and board. And I doubt there is any correlation between Norway's prisons and murder rate. There must be something else inherent to their nation that acts as a deterrent. The US could make more prisons like that, but it certainly wouldn't help the crime rate.

[numbnuts240]

prisons like the one pictured will increase crime rate. people down and out, with nothing left to lose would rather commit a crime to spend their days living it up for free than live poor and homeless. prison needs to be worse than the lowest standard of living. i'm talking dirt floors, eaves as cover, rain storms for showers, etc.

[Jesda]

An ongoing problem with the US prison system is that it encourages violence and barbarism. While there are differing levels of security depending on the offense, non-violent drug offenders shouldn't be placed in the same facilities as carjackers, burglars, and other common thugs. Organizational behavior sounds like a fascinating field.

[bobotech]

The acid attacks are horrifying. I can't phantom anything quite like those attacks.

Non-violent drug "offenders" should not be incarcerated at all. Hell, I'm barely able to comprehend the "crime" they committed most of the time.

[Silvia-Tom]

Acid attack part:

I'm speachless...I really am.
Oh and jake! you're a dumbass just by the way.

I don't know about why the acid is so easily accessible but I think the regulations somewhere in Pakistan are not as strict as they would be here or in any other Western country.

Another thing which really pisses me off is the fact that if in a Muslim country a rejected man hurts (burns, stabs, hits, kills) the woman, they are NOT GUILTY. Oh and Yes I DID say MUSLIM COUNTRY, because in NO other religion/ethnicity this would be allowed and supported.

Prison part:

My input on this (and I'm not making this up) is that especially in Germany where prison cells are WAY to confi, homeless people tend to commit crimes (like stealing a car etc.) in Fall so they would get into prison during Winter, where they have a warm bed, a color TV, fridge, the gym, usually a small soccer field, the prison library and 3 warm meals a day.
THIS IS RIDICULOUS. The reasoning for this coming from our lovely German polititian dumbasses is that prison is just there to take your freedom, but not to take your comfort so that's why they tend to be like a 3 star hotel for free. Oh and guess who's paying for them - yea take a look in the mirror.

Why would I pay my honestly earned money for someone who comited a crime? Why don't we send them to Sybiria and make them WORK for their meals everyday for 20 hours straight? So the next time they would think twice before doing something stupid.

[PHENOMenalVinyl]

That is just beyond horrible. My question is why is acid so easily accessible?

this is my ? ive never heard of anyone having it in this form but how u could do this to someone amazes me

[dusred]

Personally I think that the US Prison system is too harsh. Why? Because we focus too much on punishing a criminal rather than rehabilitating them. When a hardened criminal gets out of prison they are ready to kick some a** because of the way they've been treated in prison. If an expert feels that a person can't be rehabilitated maybe they should be left in prison for good.

[numbnuts240]

us prisons are far from harsh. i know they vary from state to state, but all you have to do is keep quiet and follow the rules and it's free room and board for the length of your stay. you get laundry service, enough to eat, heat, a/c, rec time, jackets for winter, etc. there is no harsh in our jails, not unless you bring it upon yourself.

[szh]

I don't know about why the acid is so easily accessible but I think the regulations somewhere in Pakistan are not as strict as they would be here or in any other Western country.

Lax regulations exist in all third-world countries ... Pakistan, Bangladesh and India suffer from this acid problem as a result of that. Bangladesh is trying to regulate acid sales.

Here in the US, you can buy sulphuric acid in any auto-parts store: http://shop.advanceautoparts.com/webapp ... %7CGRP2005____ ... there are no restrictions or regulations on its sale.

Another thing which really pisses me off is the fact that if in a Muslim country a rejected man hurts (burns, stabs, hits, kills) the woman, they are NOT GUILTY. Oh and Yes I DID say MUSLIM COUNTRY, because in NO other religion/ethnicity this would be allowed and supported.

I disagree entirely and vehemently. It has nothing to do with religion ... the problem has to do with most of those countries being male-dominated societies for centuries and that needs to change a lot faster than it is happening.

Z

[Dire91]

And as to your first point: punishment doesn't exist anymore. We don't have a penal system, we have a "correctional system." Which is broken. Because everyone's too much of an effing p**** to actually punish wrongdoing anymore. You can't "correct" the kind of broken that leads a man to throw acid on a woman's face because she rejected him. But you can sure as hell make it an extremely unappealing option for him by making the punishment very, very scary. Of course, most of the "civilized" world would tell me I'm an inhumane bastard for suggesting such a thing.

I love this debate and I 100% agree with you Minister. If you're going to break the law you should face the consequences, why take it easy on rapist and murders. They took it into their own hands to commit such a vulgar crime why should be give them another chance, why should we allow them the opportunity to be "corrected".

San Antonio, Texas: http://blogs.chron.com/newswatch/2010/0 ... d_att.html
Cleveland, Ohio: http://blog.cleveland.com/metro/2008/04 ... or_ac.html

The case in San Antonio seems to be premeditated to me, anyone else think this? They said the plastic bottle was melting by the time they got to the scene. So this means this guy was carrying around sulfuric acid in something else before they "accidentally" bumped into the car in front of them. To me it seems as if they planned on doing this.
And I was right, the guy in the Cleveland case got charged with attempted murder, I'm glad.

[szh]

The case in San Antonio seems to be premeditated to me, anyone else think this? They said the plastic bottle was melting by the time they got to the scene. So this means this guy was carrying around sulfuric acid in something else before they "accidentally" bumped into the car in front of them. To me it seems as if they planned on doing this.
And I was right, the guy in the Cleveland case got charged with attempted murder, I'm glad.

Yeah, the San Antonio one might be a random choice ... in most cases, the perp is known by the victim.

I hope the charge of attempted murder carries a long sentence ...

Z

[HashiriyaS14]

+1 to Z. This isn't a Muslim thing, there are plenty of African societies wherein it's acceptable to do awful things to women. It's not specific to any religion, just general backwardness.

Unfortunately this isn't a problem that can be solved with cruise missiles. We can't accelerate the development of the rest of the world artificially, they have to get there on their own. All we can do is bring influence, capitalism, and modernity, and hope some of it is absorbed. If it isn't, it's not an easy thing to force.

[szh]

+1 to Z. This isn't a Muslim thing, there are plenty of African societies wherein it's acceptable to do awful things to women. It's not specific to any religion, just general backwardness.

Yup. Don't forget India either ... the problem is worse there than in Pakistan or Bangladesh. Most likely because population is far larger, so the numbers of such insane incidents are higher.

Has far more to do with the male-dominance in the society there - particular in the illiterate and uneducated populace of those countries.

Unfortunately this isn't a problem that can be solved with cruise missiles. We can't accelerate the development of the rest of the world artificially, they have to get there on their own. All we can do is bring influence, capitalism, and modernity, and hope some of it is absorbed. If it isn't, it's not an easy thing to force.

I am not sure what it will take As the population of the world has grown, the expected normal behavior has stayed the same or improved, but it seems like the fringes have gotten worse over the centuries.

Or maybe I am just being naive and it has always existed and we are just seeing it more quickly and easily due to global attention.

I spoke to my sister working in Pakistan about this (she is a journalist there) and her point was that the presence of these images is an indicator that some organizations and people are making a difference. They are working to make it more visible and raise an outcry in the country so that action can be taken (because before, these women would not have come forward to allow photography). I sure hope she is right.

BTW, the last image in Jesda's original post (the one holding the photograph) was a 13 year old(!) victim who fought for and received support from the Supreme Court to get the sentence of the perp restored (it had been reduced by an appeals court! ).

Z

[Chaotic_Warlord]

And as to your first point: punishment doesn't exist anymore. We don't have a penal system, we have a "correctional system." Which is broken. Because everyone's too much of an effing p**** to actually punish wrongdoing anymore. You can't "correct" the kind of broken that leads a man to throw acid on a woman's face because she rejected him. But you can sure as hell make it an extremely unappealing option for him by making the punishment very, very scary. Of course, most of the "civilized" world would tell me I'm an inhumane bastard for suggesting such a thing.

Allowing wrongdoing to occur when you have the power to prevent it is JUST AS WRONG AS THE ACT ITSELF. If not moreso.

My fellow humans disgust me.

I for one wish they would bring back public executions and public humiliation, this country as a whole might think it's distasteful and illegal but I guarantee you that every man, woman, and child would show up to watch, if you charge admission then you would wind up not only having the money to pay for the execution, but also the money to maintain the penal system.

As far as this throwing acid on a person who dissed you bs goes, people need to just grow a pair and suck it up, if you need to resort to dehumanizing a person or major disfigurement to get your point across you should just off yourself.

Then again most of these 2nd and 3rd world countries still live in the stone age so I guess they don't know any better. I could say how I really feel but then I'd come across as a racist who likes the idea of ethnic cleansing, which I'm not.

[numbnuts240]

I for one wish they would bring back public executions and public humiliation, this country as a whole might think it's distasteful and illegal but I guarantee you that every man, woman, and child would show up to watch, if you charge admission then you would wind up not only having the money to pay for the execution, but also the money to maintain the penal system.

been listening to george carlin lately?

[numbnuts240]

I for one wish they would bring back public executions and public humiliation, this country as a whole might think it's distasteful and illegal but I guarantee you that every man, woman, and child would show up to watch, if you charge admission then you would wind up not only having the money to pay for the execution, but also the money to maintain the penal system.

been listening to george carlin lately?

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Actually, no I haven't, I've always thought that public executions would go a long way towards crime deterrence and if we go back to the days of old where if you were arrested for lewdness, public drunkenness or anything minor you were thrown in the town square in one of these...



Seriously though, if you knew that your punishment for a misdemeanor was to be locked in one of those and have people point, laugh and for a fee throw rotten vegetables at you, would you think twice before you did something stupid wouldn't you.

[numbnuts240]

i wholeheartedly agree. i feel that our corrections system is designed to deter middle/upper class people from recommitting. it does nothing to phase the lower class.

[sentrastace]

That is just beyond horrible. My question is why is acid so easily accessible?

I was wondering the exact same thing....
sheesh this makes me feel so fortunate to live where I live and be who I want to be and make my own decisions in life.
Looking at some of these women, I actually thought some of them were still beautiful.
ugh this thread makes me feel horrible I wish there was something I could do about it.

[AZhitman]

+1 to Z. This isn't a Muslim thing, there are plenty of African societies wherein it's acceptable to do awful things to women. It's not specific to any religion, just general backwardness.

Correct. Forced marriage of preteen girls, rape, molestations, genital mutilation, and the old "dowry" system are alive and well in many countries.

However (and I know I'm treading on thin ice here), look at the predominant belief systems of those countries. You all know I despise political correctness, but there's got to be some correlation between the social engineering of those societies and their predominant faiths.

Again, the problem here is that too many good men like Z no longer wield influence in their country of origin... and those who dare to speak out are ostracized by their peers.

We as a country went through this with our own civil rights movement in the 50's-60's (the movie Remember the Titans comes to mind). Befriend the underclass, suffer the social consequences.

Perhaps it's TIME to "touch that raw nerve". Speak out. Spread those pictures around. Ask people if they condone such actions. Leaving the issue under a rock to fester and propogate does NO one any favors. Pick at it and force a response. Make people choose sides.

[szh]

Sobering statistics ... by nation ... with lots of surprises.

Murders: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders.
Highest five (worst first): India, Russia, Colombia, South Africa, United States.
Lowest five (best first): Qatar, Cyprus, Dominica, Iceland, Luxembourg.

Murders per capita: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita.
Highest five (worst first): Colombia, South Africa, Jamaica, Venezuela, Russia.
Lowest five (best first): Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Hong Kong, Greece.

Total crimes: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... tal-crimes.
Highest five (worst first): United States , United Kingdom, Germany, France, Russia.
Lowest five (best first): Montserrat, Seychelles, Albania, Qatar, Maldives.

Total crimes per capita: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... per-capita.
Highest five (worst first): Dominica, New Zealand, Finland, Denmark, Chile.
Lowest five (best first): Yemen, India, Azerbaijan, Papua New Guinea, Georgia.

And, since we are talking about crimes of violence against women (albeit the stats don't show just female victims, they are the majority of such crimes):

Rapes: http://www.nationmaster.com/red/pie/cri_rap-crime-rapes.
Highest five (worst first): United States, South Africa, Canada, Australia, India.
Lowest five (best first): Maldives, Malta, Montserrat, Qatar, Cyprus.

Z

[szh]

Correct. Forced marriage of preteen girls, rape, molestations, genital mutilation, and the old "dowry" system are alive and well in many countries.

However (and I know I'm treading on thin ice here), look at the predominant belief systems of those countries. You all know I despise political correctness, but there's got to be some correlation between the social engineering of those societies and their predominant faiths.

You are unfortunately right. Again, it is not the religion itself that advocates such craziness - it is the way people bend things in it to suit their particular goals and objectives.

Again, the problem here is that too many good men like Z no longer wield influence in their country of origin... and those who dare to speak out are ostracized by their peers.

I am going to get my sister there to do the good work ... she is a very well-known prominent journalist and has the influence I lack.

Perhaps it's TIME to "touch that raw nerve". Speak out. Spread those pictures around. Ask people if they condone such actions. Leaving the issue under a rock to fester and propogate does NO one any favors. Pick at it and force a response. Make people choose sides.

Totally agreed. With some help, the victims are finally coming forward ... their photographs may be what makes rational people face reality and push for real change. I certainly hope so!

Z

[nissangirl74]

Sobering statistics ... by nation ... with lots of surprises.

Murders: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders.
Highest five (worst first): India, Russia, Colombia, South Africa, United States.
Lowest five (best first): Qatar, Cyprus, Dominica, Iceland, Luxembourg.

Murders per capita: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita.
Highest five (worst first): Colombia, South Africa, Jamaica, Venezuela, Russia.
Lowest five (best first): Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Hong Kong, Greece.

Total crimes: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... tal-crimes.
Highest five (worst first): United States , United Kingdom, Germany, France, Russia.
Lowest five (best first): Montserrat, Seychelles, Albania, Qatar, Maldives.

Total crimes per capita: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... per-capita.
Highest five (worst first): Dominica, New Zealand, Finland, Denmark, Chile.
Lowest five (best first): Yemen, India, Azerbaijan, Papua New Guinea, Georgia.

And, since we are talking about crimes of violence against women (albeit the stats don't show just female victims, they are the majority of such crimes):

Rapes: http://www.nationmaster.com/red/pie/cri_rap-crime-rapes.
Highest five (worst first): United States, South Africa, Canada, Australia, India.
Lowest five (best first): Maldives, Malta, Montserrat, Qatar, Cyprus.

Z

Those statistics reveal the real horror in the situation. There is NO pattern. Horrible crimes are happening regardless of location, gender, race, religion, or consequence.

[Chaotic_Warlord]

Sobering statistics ... by nation ... with lots of surprises.

Murders: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders.
Highest five (worst first): India, Russia, Colombia, South Africa, United States.
Lowest five (best first): Qatar, Cyprus, Dominica, Iceland, Luxembourg.

Murders per capita: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_m ... per-capita.
Highest five (worst first): Colombia, South Africa, Jamaica, Venezuela, Russia.
Lowest five (best first): Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Japan, Hong Kong, Greece.

Total crimes: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... tal-crimes.
Highest five (worst first): United States , United Kingdom, Germany, France, Russia.
Lowest five (best first): Montserrat, Seychelles, Albania, Qatar, Maldives.

Total crimes per capita: http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_t ... per-capita.
Highest five (worst first): Dominica, New Zealand, Finland, Denmark, Chile.
Lowest five (best first): Yemen, India, Azerbaijan, Papua New Guinea, Georgia.

And, since we are talking about crimes of violence against women (albeit the stats don't show just female victims, they are the majority of such crimes):

Rapes: http://www.nationmaster.com/red/pie/cri_rap-crime-rapes.
Highest five (worst first): United States, South Africa, Canada, Australia, India.
Lowest five (best first): Maldives, Malta, Montserrat, Qatar, Cyprus.

Z

Yup the U.S Is in the top 5 on more than 1 of those...

Those statistics reveal the real horror in the situation. There is NO pattern. Horrible crimes are happening regardless of location, gender, race, religion, or consequence.

Actually if you look at the FBI crime statistics for the United States you'll find that the majority of all major and violent crimes are committed in areas where the population is primarily minorities. Now don't get me wrong us crazy white people commit violent crimes too, most crimes committed against women and child are committed by whitey and let's not forget that I with the exception of maybe 1 or 2 every serial killer in the United States was a crazy white dude, but most major crimes and murders are in fact racially and ethnically motivated. As far as other countries are concerned, when your country as a whole is a giant slum and less than 1% of your population lives the high life the last thing you have to money as a government to finance is a legal system. Most of their money is used to further their own corruption and the rest is used to pay off the local warlords.

I am however to see some of those countries in those statistics, particularly the European countries, though I suspect that the majority of their crime statistics involve the Russian and Eastern Bloc crime syndicates, more so than the rampant drug and gang related crimes that we have to deal with here in the states. I'm also surprised to see that the country of Georgia is on the list for lowest crimes per capita as is dead center of all the Russian and Eastern Bloc crime families, I have my suspicions that their crime stats are severely fudged due to the amount of police corruption that it probably has.

[cellardoorv]

What humans do to other humans. It's unreal.

Man's inhumanity to man never ceases to disgust me.

"All dogs go to heaven because, unlike people, dogs are naturally good and loyal and kind."

All Dogs Go to Heaven, 1989


People are disgusting.