Built KA motor. What would you want?

[IvanAtSPRacing]

What are you guys looking for in a semi or fully built motor?

I am working on building a couple KA long blocks for two customers of mine. I am thinking of having a couple extra motors built for quick replacements in case sombody needs one. Here is a list of what we are doing for them. Let me know what you think or what you would do If you were building it.

Stock block .020 over brass plug on deck removed, tapped and plugged.Stock crank polished.Arais forged pistons 8.8 CR.Stock rods shotpeened.Felpro full gasket kit.Cometic MLM .040 head gasket.Mr Gasket copper exhaust manifold gasket.Clevite main and rod bearings.ARP head and main studs.New Nissan timing chains (lower factory upgrade).New Nissan tensioners.New Nissan chain guides (lower factory upgraded with matching bolt).Oil pump and oiling system modified for better oil pressure and flow.

This would be the bare minimum that I would feel comfortable in my own car for making 400+ WHP with. I am hoping that the shotpeened stock rods can handle 500 WHP. We will find out with H&Ks car.

What do you guys think? Any interest in having a place that has an S13 long block and an S14 long block ready to ship to you in the event you break your stock motor?

[574-240sx]

How much would this all cost?

[TrunkMonkey]

as long as you'd be willing to change the compression ratio to the customer's specs, it looks like a very good setup.

-demetrius

[Naro182]

what does removing the brass plug do?

[IvanAtSPRacing]

How much would this all cost?

As always, PhatKA-T.com will have the best products priced fairly. I should have a number in week or two. I need to see how much the machine work on the head and block will be. Feel free to email me, call me at the shop, or check our website for information.

[IvanAtSPRacing]

as long as you'd be willing to change the compression ratio to the customer's specs, it looks like a very good setup.

-demetrius

I believe that 8.8 cr will be ideal for most KA-T people. Arais does make a 7.5 cr also for those that want to set their motors on KILL. Rod upgrade will be required if your looking for this combo. I believe that I could do stock cr or higher cr for the NA guys.

[IvanAtSPRacing]

what does removing the brass plug do?

With the oiling mods done to the oiling system, oil pressure is higher and that factory plug starts to leak. Tapping that hold and using a pipe plug keeps this from happening.

[WDRacing]

The rods are shotpeened from the factory IIRC, perhaps a cryo treatment on the rotating assembly instead.

No need to do the main/head studs IMO unless your going for big boost, in which case the rods would be upgraded to.

For me, a nice clean block, forged pistons/rods and have the crank knifed edged and lightened with the hole thing balanced. With the Nissan stud girdle you don't need ARP main studs. I've seen plenty of similer RB's throw down 600whp+ on the stock crank and bearing setup with just OEM Nissan bolts.

If the consumer wants head studs then that can be done on their own.

SO eleviate the studs and use forged rods instead.

[Redline240]

With the oiling mods done to the oiling system, oil pressure is higher and that factory plug starts to leak. Tapping that hold and using a pipe plug keeps this from happening.

Whats a pipe plug? More info please! Where can ya get one?

Redline

[BadMojo]

As others have said, depending on cost it would be great to have a place to get an engine. As others have mentioned, the ability to get one ranging from "set to stun" and "set to vaporize" would be very cool.

If I blow my KA, I wouldn't need an engine capable of supporting 500hp. I would be leaning towards something more like WD had said. Then again, I hope my KA doesn't go "boom".

[Structure240sx]

it would be very hard to have an engine prebuilt for a for a variety of different applications. if they dont break then the engine wont get sold. the majority of ka-t guys on average, i would say, put down 300rwhp on a daily basis. the only thing needed for this to be VERY safe would be forged pistons.

like mentioned the HG and head bolts could be done on the customers time. even any rod and main fasnters. the real down for a person would be to have the the block machined and actually built.

i would stick to having it machined and built with pistons. that compression ratio to me is perfect for any ka-t. if you are looking for well over 400rwhp then you should already have everything built just for you.

i personally havent heard of any stock rods giving up from sheer power

a rebuild consisting of pistons and timing chain parts would yeild the best market. most buyers at best price

[IvanAtSPRacing]

The rods are shotpeened from the factory IIRC, perhaps a cryo treatment on the rotating assembly instead.

No need to do the main/head studs IMO unless your going for big boost, in which case the rods would be upgraded to.

For me, a nice clean block, forged pistons/rods and have the crank knifed edged and lightened with the hole thing balanced. With the Nissan stud girdle you don't need ARP main studs. I've seen plenty of similer RB's throw down 600whp+ on the stock crank and bearing setup with just OEM Nissan bolts.

If the consumer wants head studs then that can be done on their own.

SO eleviate the studs and use forged rods instead.

I apprciate your help. Does the FSM call for head and main bolts to be replaced after they have been torqued once? I know on the Supra, Toyota wants you to replace them during any reassembly. If this is the case, what is the price difference between the factory bolts and the ARPs. On a side note, when I called ARP for head and main studs, I was informed that they dont have a kit for the KA. I was told that people have been using studs, but the studs they are using work but arent exactly what they would design for the KA if they were making a kit. I am looking into getting them to make a kit for the KA.

I have the crank for my race car knife edged and it will be shotpeened, balanced, micro polished, and nitride coated. All of these things should help for the HP level I am shooting for but for the average joe, its probably not worth the expense. But definatly an availble option.

Thanks again.

[IvanAtSPRacing]

Whats a pipe plug? More info please! Where can ya get one?

Redline

Pipe plugs are taper threaded plugs that go into a taper threaded hole with sealant to plug up the hole. Its a much more secure way of plugging a hole then just pushing a brass plug in it. pipe plugs are availble at any hardware store.

[IvanAtSPRacing]

it would be very hard to have an engine prebuilt for a for a variety of different applications. if they dont break then the engine wont get sold. the majority of ka-t guys on average, i would say, put down 300rwhp on a daily basis. the only thing needed for this to be VERY safe would be forged pistons.

like mentioned the HG and head bolts could be done on the customers time. even any rod and main fasnters. the real down for a person would be to have the the block machined and actually built.

i would stick to having it machined and built with pistons. that compression ratio to me is perfect for any ka-t. if you are looking for well over 400rwhp then you should already have everything built just for you.

i personally havent heard of any stock rods giving up from sheer power

a rebuild consisting of pistons and timing chain parts would yeild the best market. most buyers at best price

This is exactly what I was thinking. Structure, you rock.

I appreciate your ideas on the HG and studs. This would be an easy upgrade for people. I could easily put the head on the motor and swap main bolts for studs just prior to shipping motors out if a customer wants.

[IvanAtSPRacing]

As others have said, depending on cost it would be great to have a place to get an engine. As others have mentioned, the ability to get one ranging from "set to stun" and "set to vaporize" would be very cool.

If I blow my KA, I wouldn't need an engine capable of supporting 500hp. I would be leaning towards something more like WD had said. Then again, I hope my KA doesn't go "boom".

I am really hoping to get some ideas and agreement on what everybody thinks a min requirement for a KA-T block would need. I think we are getting close. I want to have an extra S13 long block and S14 long block ready to go at all times. For customers requiring a motor "set to vaporize" (I like your thinking) I can certainly build it given the time and opertunity.

Thanks for your input.

[TrunkMonkey]

i gotta agree with Structure240sx. a rebuild with just forged pistons would keep costs down and still satisfy the needs of you average mildy boosted KAt.

the biggest obstacle isn't which parts to replace, but who to put them together. just having a competent engine builder put it all together for you is enough peace of mind for most people.

thanks ivan for taking the time to do this.

-demetrius

[MikeMurphy]

It might be unlikely that you will sell your 400whp overbuilt monster. I would go for a reliable 300whp machine ready to go. This would keep costs much lower.

[Ubernoober]

I like the exact original setup.I would never want to re-use my head or main bolts/studs on a high power application so the ARP fasteners make sense to me. Stock rebuild, no ARP. Performance rebuild, yes ARP. The cost difference is probably rather small anyhow.Will this block be tanked and magnafluxed? Will it be bored with a deckplate? Will the block be sealed?What piston rings will be used?

Option to knife-edge and nitride crank.Option to swap pistons with 8.5 CR. Its hot and dry in Cali.Option to balance entire rotating assembly (seperate from other crank mods). This is a lifesaver on my old V8's, and would be pleasing on the KA.

I have a machine shop close to me that I trust, but if you offer a moderately competitive price (I'm not asking you to cut your own throat) AND some kind of basic startup/mechanical warranty you will win my business hands down.

[IvanAtSPRacing]

I like the exact original setup.I would never want to re-use my head or main bolts/studs on a high power application so the ARP fasteners make sense to me. Stock rebuild, no ARP. Performance rebuild, yes ARP. The cost difference is probably rather small anyhow.Will this block be tanked and magnafluxed? Will it be bored with a deckplate? Will the block be sealed?What piston rings will be used?

Option to knife-edge and nitride crank.Option to swap pistons with 8.5 CR. Its hot and dry in Cali.Option to balance entire rotating assembly (seperate from other crank mods). This is a lifesaver on my old V8's, and would be pleasing on the KA.

I have a machine shop close to me that I trust, but if you offer a moderately competitive price (I'm not asking you to cut your own throat) AND some kind of basic startup/mechanical warranty you will win my business hands down.

Yes the block will be hot tanked, magnafluxed, inspected prior to building. This is standard for just about any reputable shop. My machine shop finished the deck plate about a month ago when he was doing my block, Norbert's block, and Alex's block. All motors I build are painted but I have never gone as far as sealing the water passages. All freeze plugs replaced, oil galley plugs removed and passages cleaned and tapped for taper pipe plugs. This is for ALL motors. Getting into higher end stuff, knife edging, full balancing, nitride coating, cryo treatments, shotpeening, magnetic resonance, etc all an option. You want coatings on pistons, combustion chambers, valve faces, bearings... your all good. We can get it all done. The sky is the limit. I will try to get a basic motor build together and then see if I can put a price on all the bells and whistles you guys might like. I should have a good idea from mild to wild as I am building up 5 KA motors in the next few months.

[WDRacing]

I dunno what the FSM says, but everytime I've rebuilt any engine I swap out the bolts. The Nissan head bolts are stretch torque bolts, so they will get changed everytime. I dunno abouyt the crank bolts. But might as well....

The ARP studs are for another vehicle, I don't know which ones as I won't ever be using studs, not even when I build the race motor. Unless I run into issues with the head seating.

If I could run out and buy a block with new seals/chains and everything else was stock except for the pistons, I'd probably buy one myself just to keep as a spare for those moments I know are going to arise.

[Structure240sx]

Option to swap pistons with 8.5 CR. Its hot and dry in Cali.

.3 wont make a difference, if your motor is going to blow at 8.8 CR then it will blow at 8.5 CR

[IvanAtSPRacing]

I dunno what the FSM says, but everytime I've rebuilt any engine I swap out the bolts. The Nissan head bolts are stretch torque bolts, so they will get changed everytime. I dunno abouyt the crank bolts. But might as well....

The ARP studs are for another vehicle, I don't know which ones as I won't ever be using studs, not even when I build the race motor. Unless I run into issues with the head seating.

If I could run out and buy a block with new seals/chains and everything else was stock except for the pistons, I'd probably buy one myself just to keep as a spare for those moments I know are going to arise.

I can pretty much assure you that the head will lift once your making signifigant power. On the Supra, we start to lift heads at about 900 WHP and thats with ARP 11mm studs. Thats with 14 head studs. Our KAs have only 10 head studs and they are spaced further apart as the bore is greater then the 2J. I will bet that ten 10mm factory head bolts wont hold the head down and you will push coolant at between 500 and 600 WHP. I am shooting for 650 WHP out of the box and 750 when I turn the boost up. To run the number I eventually want, I will need a little over 800 WHP or a 2000 pound car.

[Structure240sx]

To run the number I eventually want, I will need a little over 800 WHP or a 2000 pound car.[/QUOTE]

go get a civic hatch, and stop wasting your time. haha j/k

im just jealous of the local honda "master" dude that hit 12.0 with slicks, gutted and lexan crx, off 13psi with a 1.6 stock sohc. car must weigh 1200lbs

[gabossie]

Well, since this is what I plan on doing anyway, if you put together a built block for a reasonable price, you certainly have my business. Just out of curriosity, what does it cost to ship a block across country?

[Structure240sx]

i also would most likely come to you for an engine. dreams of my next project had ideas of an sr becuse it would be less downtime than to have a ka built. this changes everything tho

[IvanAtSPRacing]

Probably 200 bux for a cross country trip thru yellow freight.

[bcuz]

i also would most likely come to you for an engine. dreams of my next project had ideas of an sr becuse it would be less downtime than to have a ka built. this changes everything tho

what downtime? buy a KA for no more then 150$, probably a lot less, I got mine for 50$... Then build it. Now you dont have to wait, you can keep your motor in the car the whole time

[Ubernoober]

.3 wont make a difference, if your motor is going to blow at 8.8 CR then it will blow at 8.5 CR

LOL, I certainly won't dispute that. It was more of a question of making other pistons available. Since he said just about anything goes, I'm not worried.I think what Ivan originally listed is a perfect "off the shelf" KA-T basic unit, with the buyer optioning things from there. It at least would give him a consistent price-point to quote from, which I gather is what Ivan really wants to supply us crazy KA-T freaks.

[WDRacing]

Ok back on topic fella's...I like Ivans idea of building a basic built platform for the average joe. If we were all master mechanics with a full shop we wouldn't even be on NICO.

[toki]

Ivan you may want to consider having stock internals (rods and pistons) cryo treated. Since the weakest link in the stock setup is the ringlands on the pistons, cryo treatment will go a long way here. The rods, well just for safetys sake. There is no reason to drop the CR to 8.5:1 for 10-12 psi. There is no reason to drop it to below the stock 9.5:1 for that level. Most of the country can get 93 at the pump (myself not included ) so if the customer wants a purpose built STREET CAR, might want to consider the less costly option of cryo treating vs forged internals.