"budget water injection" diy

[neverlift]

Simple, budget minded, water injection.

Parts list/Cost:1. Windshield washer tank. free2. Windshield washer pump, If one did not come on the tank you use. free3. Vacuum hose 3' to be safe. free4. Hobbs pressure switch~normally open~. $33 5. CSI cold start injector. free (may cost you a few at the local pull a part) 6. Relay/fuse/wire/electric tape/zip ties. If you are doing this mod you have this stuff laying around. free7. Wire cutter/stripper, drill bit(3/4 seemed to work good). again, you have this stuff. free8. Short piece of 3/4" heater hose. free

Step one is bench testing, on any project possible.

This is a CSI, This particular one has twin misting holes. They are basically an on or off injector. Eliminating the need for a separate solenoid and nozzle.

Installation;

Mounting the CSI.

Remove your cold pipe and drill a hole roughly 6" back from the throttle body. Next step is to take the 3/4" hose and cut a small length just shorter than the thick part of the CSI. Now slide the hose over the CSI. After sliding the hose over the CSI you will have to force the hose and CSI into the hole. It is a VERY tight fit, at this point you could either zip tie it and be done with that part or take a couple metal screws and secure it that way. I have 80 drift miles on the zip ties I used without any issues. Now put your cold pipe back on and fasten the piping back together.

My CSI installed Tank mounting;

This is going to be different for most people, I no longer had a stock washer tank, so I asked around and got a free one from my buddies parts Z. If you have or can get a stocker use it and wire in the level sensor. I have my tank mounted in the front passenger side battery area.

Wiring;

Start with figuring out what psi you want the CSI to start squirting and bench set the Hobbs switch. Then wire one side of the Hobbs to a CLEAN chassis ground. Now run the other side off the Hobbs switch to the pump and solenoid (polarity on the solenoid is not important) ground. Now run the power to everything. Find a 12volt source and run a fuse inline to the pump positive and the solenoid. Try to get as much wiring for the pump and solenoid pig tails as possible, cleans up install. Go ahead and T the Hobbs switch into a manifold source, or you could drill/tap a hole in the charge pipe for a boost source and thread the switch in there.

Water lines:

Self explanatory, run from the pump outlet to the CSI. like so this.

Dual pumps wired together and the water lines Y'd together

Everything in place

~ disclaimer ~I am not the first nor did I come up with anything that is not already widely available via the net. I am not responsible for anything you do to your car this is a BASIC guide to get you going into water injection. WD mentioned the CSI as the misting nozzle/solenoid and it all became clear to me. I went to the junk yard and gathered some hose/a pump/CSI's to play with and tested this on the bench to see for myself. I am nice to the older woman who works there so she hooks me up It works great. You should test the flow of the CSI you use as they came on many different cars ranging from the 80~90 era, the ones I found the most ready available(easy to pull with only wire cutters 10&12mm wrenches) were from Toyota's. But many cars have them in different flow rates.

Obviously more flow/pressure is going to be better as these are designed to run off fuel rail pressure. The mist is pretty fine IMHO, but I have not had a chance to flow test, or pressure test This system has tons of improvement room, and can easily be improved, however for 30 dollars out of my pocket to help not blow a stock ka is worth while.

Good luck guys

[Seishuku]

Won't that injector rust solid after a few days?Spray mixes usually contain water and meth, both of which contain oxygen, and will rust parts pretty quick.

Also, those pumps don't push much, if any pressure at all, so it's mostly useless under boost.

The injector is a good idea though, if it can deal with the fluid.

[trackslut240]

superb, now i gotta find a junk yard with an older woman....



this is an excellent writeup neverlift... to the point but i think ...you will have to prepare yourself for more noob questions... let me start...what did u set the hobbs switch to..how many psi? more noob stuff later ...excellent contribution..thanks .

[neverlift]

Well its been a few days of water only. I'll pull it out in the morning and take look. The solenoid sounds like its firing when I manually test it. Well I had a single pump I used for 3 days worked good on the 11ish psi I was running the setup on. The pipe containing the CSI is cold to the touch after 2 hours(driving/idle/BEAT the tar/idle/beat), obviously it has to be going to cool the charge. I currently have two pumps Y'd together that shoot ten foot without a relay or diameter change to increase pressure. The CSI in no way outflows the pumps, probably not a single pump for that matter, letting it create pressure. I'm sure you could simply run a boost source to the tank to pressurize it in order negate any loss due to boost in the charge pipe.

trackslutthat will depend on your needs.

[WDRacing]

Won't that injector rust solid after a few days?Spray mixes usually contain water and meth, both of which contain oxygen, and will rust parts pretty quick.

Also, those pumps don't push much, if any pressure at all, so it's mostly useless under boost.

The injector is a good idea though, if it can deal with the fluid.

The injector might rust, but a solution is to use a small squirt of Marvel Mystery Oil in the the resovoir itself. This will lube the pump and the injector. Or by adding a small amount of radiator anti-rust to each tank, having the same result.

The pump only has to put out 10-15 psi more then the amount of desired boost pressure in order for it to be very effective. Personally I would use any RV water pump I could get my hands on. Since the pressure we're working with is very minimal, almost any RV pump will work very well since even the small / older ones provide more then enough flow for a small nozzle to mist correctly.

The hobbs switches come adjustable, so you can tune the pump "on" time by adjusting the Hobbs switch itself. As far as tuning for flow, you can add a rheostat to regulate pump voltage or use a nitrous nozzle and tune the jet sizing according to your needs.

The idea here is to keep it cheap and easy. This is about as basic as you can get. From here you can do almost anything you want, to include adding various methods for controlling flow, adding stages, even adding a variable flow controller so the water/meth spray is ramped up as boost pressure increases.

The CSI can also be used with the Hobbs switch as a way to add fuel. Just "T" into the fuel line on the pressure side and run the fuel line to the CSI. It will now add fuel instead of water whenever the Hobbs switch tells it to. Another great way to add a few psi of boost without upgrading your entire fuel system.

People have been doing this for 15 years with great success.

Josh, I made some minor editing changes to your original post just to clean it up a little. I also changed one of the pics that started showing up as a Red X.

WD

[neverlift]

STOP!!!!!!!!!!!! the thing is not rusted shut. However it is corroded shut! I'm going to get some MMO and try with my other CSI. with some lube in it. If it clears up I will let you guys know.

Thanks wd

as WD said you can use this same setup as a fifth fuel injector, just eliminate all the water parts. If the water does not work out I can always try with fuel.

[WDRacing]

Use distilled water and some type of anti-corrosive chemical and the CSI should work fine. If not, then swap the CSI for any type of misting nozzle or a nitrous nozzle and use any solenoid that is powered on via 12v.

WD

[neverlift]

added some MMO let you guys know soon enough.

[WDRacing]

My addition to a simple DIY water injection system.

These are parts that can be obtained from http://www.mcmaster.com

Small Misting Nozzle P/N 3178K75 $4.25



Check Valve P/N 1371T14 $15



I'll grab the part numbers for the attaching hardware after I mow the lawn and after Dylan takes his nap.

The key here being the mister nozzle that won't clog and there are various sizes rated by flow. Small being where you start obviously. The check valve removes the need for a solenoid and extra wiring. So all you really need is the nozzle, check valve, attaching fittings, pump, hobbs switch, hose and the wiring/relay. The stock windshield washer resovoir will work fine and IIRC it has a low level light.

I'll put some more stuff together later today.

WD

[Seishuku]

Come on guys, pressure is key on these systems. With out significant pressure, you get crap for atomization, and large water droplets don't phase change very well (turn to steam).

Windshield washer pumps that put out a little over your boost pressure means you're only getting a few PSI of actual spraying pressure, and everyone that's tried to wash their car with a kinked garden hose knows it doesn't work well, if at all.

It's still not a bad idea with the injector for cheap DIY work, but you STILL need a good high pressure pump. Now if you get an external fuel pump, and using MMO or an anti corrosive (one that won't screw up your combustion process), then you got a good and cheap DIY pump.

IMO, a Surflo pump is still the way to go. Not something that I would like to cheap out on, especially when my ring lands are depending on it!

[neverlift]

I agree on the pump, however the twin pumps are moving some serious water. This is the cheapest working setup I could do. As stated MANY upgrades to this system can be made, and pressurizing the tank should keep the pressure higher than the charge pipe.

When I get my hands on a cheap pump I will go for that, but until then these are working fine. Maybe I need to go get a pressure gauge and see what the twin pumps put out? I know they are able to build pressure as the CSI is small.

[Seishuku]

Yeah, a pressure gauge would be a good idea.

[neverlift]

I know... hit up harbor freight in the am lol

estimate its making 20+

[WDRacing]

This is a great pump for water injection, not so good for methanol as it's only a 1gpm pump.

http://www.amazon.com/SHURflo-...4QU6C

If that link goes bad, look up Shurflo Nautilus. I have a Shurflo that I used for one of my first kits back in the day. Accept mine was for alcohol not water.

WD

[neverlift]

didnt go to harbor freight yet...

I did go out and test the CSI this morning, performed flawlessly. The MMO really helped.

[Doya]

Thanks for explaining all of this It definitally isn't as hard as what I thought it would be. I'm going to start on mine this weekend.

[neverlift]

Cool, make sure to use some thing to lube the system.

I'll be testing my setup pretty much daily now.

[neverlift]

manual tested today, all still good

[neverlift]

well it looks like the MMO took care of the corrosion issue I had. Been a couple days.

[DMan II-40]

Never knew what this did and always saw people (especially WD) mentioning it. Seems pretty bad a**, I mean there is so many pluses to running one and very little if any drawbacks. I'm sold on the idea and plan to attempt something once I get my set up (who know when that will be...).

Which is most cost effective: water, alcohol, or methanol?

I read it is possible to mix them too, like water and alcohol 50/50 mix or something.

Water also supposedly steam cleans your engine too, like your valves and heads too. Pretty neat stuff.

[WDRacing]

I used to think that meth was the best bet for subinjection. But meth is just to damn expensive. So the next best thing is water IMO. It's basically free and if done right can allow for tons of extra power.

A 2 stage kit would be the way to go. You could easily run 15 psi with no timing retard. That would put you close to 400whp

[neverlift]

The MMO seems to have cleared up any chance of nozzle failure, I test it daily and drive the car everyday. I have yet to refill my water res. and a lot has gone to me testing the setup.

I am only using water btw.

I need to jack the timing back up a couple degrees but I love the safety margins I have created for myself. Retarded timing,little rich,and water. I have pulled some fuel on boost, its about 12:1 around 8psi, gonna turn the boost up tomorrow back to 10~11psi.

[DMan II-40]

I used to think that meth was the best bet for subinjection. But meth is just to damn expensive. So the next best thing is water IMO. It's basically free and if done right can allow for tons of extra power.

A 2 stage kit would be the way to go. You could easily run 15 psi with no timing retard. That would put you close to 400whp

With water injection, if I did the average T25/FMU/FMIC what do you think I could boost too being safe, and what would I retard the timing to? I'm doing more reading on this has me really interested.

Edit: found a cool site. http://www.turbomirage.com/water.html
Modified by DMan II-40 at 11:29 PM 11/6/2009

[fo0manchu]

i read around the web and people suggest tuning the afr's down in the 10.X range when using water injection. I need to do some more reading, but just thought I would mention it.

Also, if you were to run 50/50 on water and alki, do you think the alki would clean out the MM oil lubing the injector? I know water would just slide past it because its not a degreaser, but how about the alki?

Just trying to get some ideas for my setup. You guys got me inspired to lose the small intercooler and go for water injection.. yah! Parts are on its way.

BTW, you ever get a chance to test the psi on the 2 pumps?

[neverlift]

dmanII those are things you will need to figure out for you as they will be setup specific. I have a decent FMIC already installed so to me the water is just a means of ensuring no knock on boost.

wd says stock tune is safe to 6~8psi for timing, I am 4* retarded for 9psi ~12psi but am lazy and could def add 2* back for the 9psi. I'd call it safe if you ran a 7:1 fmu,walbro,t25,3* retard,water on around 5psi, obviously with a wideband. IMHO every person in this section needs a W/B it could possibly save you a motor.

foomanchu

from my understanding the ONLY time you want an afr in the 10:1 is when you are using all that fuel to cool the charged air. Or you are like me and have become anal about detonation. Before WI I was shooting for 10.5:1 in boost to be safe and yes with the timing retard. But my situation required me to have a safe reliable setup. I take my son to school in it everyday lol he is so getting attention from the older chicks, too bad he is 5 Back to the question, 12:1 seems to be ideal ,I have no hard proof as to what afr works best as I am not on a dyno making back to back pulls. And if you have that much(10:1) fuel added with water you are gonna take all the heat away that spins the snail. Get it into the 11:1 at richest in boost/water on areas.

Not sure again, thats gonna be something you experiment with.

No have not gone to harbor freight yet. If the budget allows you guys I would go for the largest tank available and go for an RV water pump like mentioned by WD, I would assume the rv pump can flow a ton of water with good reliable pressure. Gonna try to get something setup today. But I am a busy SAHD.

As I have been told you do not want your water system to bandaid any detonation problem or you will be on the edge of reliable, always. My setup was seeing 11psi daily so I did not see a problem with taking out a little fuel and adding some water.

[WDRacing]

You don't ever want AFR's in the 10's with pump gas as the fuel. The ideal mixture for gas mileage and power is 12.5. Leaner then that and you risk knock. Thats why people run in the low 12's high 11's, for safety. Low 11's means you're wasting fuel and losing power. All of the fuel isn't burned and some of it ends up in the oil via blow-bye.

You don't add fuel when using water injection. There is no reason to. Water enables you to do a couple of things. Run more boost or add more timing. You shouldn't have to tune anything, just add water and add timing back in or add a few psi of boost.

The only thing water injection should be used for is effectively increasing your octane ratio by cooling the combustion charge. Higher octane allows you to increase timing and boost. Water injection and alky injection are just cheap ways for the DIY crowd to raise there octane threshold instead of running race gas at $8/gal.

WD

[Seishuku]

Just need to watch out for corrosion issues with meth.I personally use -20deg F "Polar" windshield washer fluid, it's nearly a 50/50 mix of water and meth. Just make sure the washer fluid you get doesn't have any soap in it, just give it a shake to find out.

[neverlift]

yeah I meant to post that last bit there no soap!

[DMan II-40]

Great info, thanks. It's rare to need to ask questions here since there is so much info. Yea I plan on getting an LC-1 W/B to monitor my AFR.

Eye vant powah en mii deedee!

[neverlift]

not a fan of the lc1, a local guy blew a motor due to that thing, but anyhting electrical can fail I've had my plx for like 3 years now, same sensor and everything. Been on 2 n/a headers and 3 turbo setups.