"budget water injection" diy

[neverlift]

I would not run anything pre turbo unless it was nitrous or propane. If the atomization is not good it will chew away at your compressor wheel. And the afm would probably not like the moisture.?

[Seishuku]

Yeah, and if you're running a blow through MAF, make sure you spray the water AFTER the MAF. It'll ruin the hotwire otherwise.

Any cooling from the spray will have to be compensated by tuning, the MAFS won't do it.

[fo0manchu]

Well the good thing about running a draw through is that you can run a nozzle pre turbo. With the right atomization and pressures, you can change up the compressor map as if you were running a bigger turbo. I guess the key is to have good atomization with low flow.

I plan on doing a 2 stage setup, one pre turbo and another pre throttle body. But with a shurflo pump. we will see what happens.

[neverlift]

Very true.

When saying fine, it would almost have to be in the form of fog or steam, like a dry fogger. might pick up a cheap fuel pump from the JY and try that for the pump, the MMO would probably lube the system great and keep it from failing.

[WDRacing]

Spraying water in pre-turbo has been proven over the years to be less affective the pre-throttle body. I'll never be a fan of spraying water into a impellar that's spinning at 30,000 rpm.

As far as blow through is concerned, I didn't realize you had so many issues before. Seems to me that it couldn't be caused by having the MAF in the factory position. Or else we'd all have issues. When you moved the MAF you simply fixed something that was broken...lol.

Maybe I'll try it, I dunno. It would make intake piping easier.

WD

[neverlift]

I have a minor leak in my IC but nothing to create that much issues. I have had 3 ICs and more than 5 turbo's, second block(first was rebuilt about 3 times), s***ty IC piping and decent IC piping, My car has never liked suck through, this or the old chassis. I went back to the stock afm several times going over everything a bunch and I never found anything to cause such fluff.

IDK, you should give it a try and tell me what you think.

[fo0manchu]

Yah, I was thinking a fog. Don't worry, this wont be happening with a washer pump. From what I've read, the lowest PSI pump people are using for this is 100psi.

As far as being less effective before turbo, I would like to read these articles WD. So far, from all my reading, the benefits are amazing. There's been problems in the past due to people using pumps that were not atomizing the water enough. Therefor pitting the impeller blades when the water drops would hit. I'm not just talking about one nozzle, I'm talking about a dual setup, one before turbo and one before throttle body.

People have actually posted some great "claims". And I do say "claims" as I found no dyno numbers to prove. I wonder if there are any data logs/ dyno test done on this? Maybe I shall be the guinea pig.

Also found a report about pumps that clean off headlights are putting out 55psi!! This is on the japan version of the Nissan Pathfinder though.

[WDRacing]

I suppose if you're using the water solely to change the compression/AR factor of the impeller it would be ok. But think about the lag time between when the water starts being injected to the time it reaches the actual combustion chamber. You'll have to trigger the onset at like 2 psi just so it takes affect by the time your turbo is reaching 7 maybe even 8 depending on the turbo itself. When driving around town you'll probably get pooling in the piping and intercooler because you'll be on and off boost so rapidly.

There are lots of factors when determining this type of setup and there is a reason that 95% of the people now use pre-tb injection. Maybe if you didn't use a FMIC, but that's lame IMO, not worth it just so you can inject water pre-turbo.

Just my opinions based on experience.

[fo0manchu]

I plan on using no FMIC. Due to space constraints in my engine bay. My understanding is that pre turbo injection will keep the air charge coming out of the compressor as close to ambient air temp. There will be low enough volume that most of the water will be vaporized upon exiting(even better results can be had with alki or meth mixed in to help vaporization). Resulting in the compressor running much more efficiently. Then a second nozzle will be switched on at a higher boost level pre throttle body.

I think most people use pre throttle just because its the easiest, cheapest, almost fail safe, and can be done on a budget. Pre turbo takes a bit more planning, tuning, and $$$.

But I guess since this is a budget thread, pre turbo should be in another subject.

[neverlift]

so long as it does not involve handing the man a stack of dollars for a kit, post what you want related to budget water injection.

[WDRacing]

I plan on using no FMIC. Due to space constraints in my engine bay. My understanding is that pre turbo injection will keep the air charge coming out of the compressor as close to ambient air temp. There will be low enough volume that most of the water will be vaporized upon exiting(even better results can be had with alki or meth mixed in to help vaporization). Resulting in the compressor running much more efficiently. Then a second nozzle will be switched on at a higher boost level pre throttle body.

I think most people use pre throttle just because its the easiest, cheapest, almost fail safe, and can be done on a budget. Pre turbo takes a bit more planning, tuning, and $$$.

But I guess since this is a budget thread, pre turbo should be in another subject.

Oh, well not using a intercooler changes everything

I was doing some more thinking on this, because I like outside the ox thinking, and found TONS of nozzles that will provide a nice mist. Several low GPM nozzles that will spray a great mist as long as you keep the pressure over 50psi or so. Pressure being the key. But almost any shurflo pump that pushes more then 2 GPM will work, I recommend the 4 GPM pumps because they will handle any amount of extra nozzles you decide to add later.

With no intercooler I'd actually do either a 3 stg setup with 3 small nozzles and a high pressure pump. The initial pre-turbo nozzle actuating at about 1-2 psi so the "chilled charge" reaches the intake mani by 4 psi at the latest and keeps the intial temps down so you don't have to worry about timing retard at all. Then use knock or whatever to determine the next 2 stages that will be pre-tb. Probably 7-8 psi for stg 2 and 12ish for the final stg. That would allow for 14 psi and an easy 350whp. Kinda makes me think about it more...especially if it does change the effective AR of the compressor.

Or 1 pre-turbo nozzle with a fixed pressure and 1-2 psi onset combined with a single pre-turbo nozzle that's hooked to a variable controller.

Lots of options.

Check out this controller.

http://www.labontemotorsports.....html

[fo0manchu]

which nozzles did you find? So far I just have ones from mccarmaster.

[DMan II-40]

Was looking at the AEM kit. It looks like it has some cool features. You can also purchase there pump separately which is cool. Probable can find it lower than the price advertised on there site.

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCa...D=120

[WDRacing]

Was looking at the AEM kit. It looks like it has some cool features. You can also purchase there pump separately which is cool. Probable can find it lower than the price advertised on there site.

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCa...D=120

IMHO, AEM is over priced...way over. The controller is a set variable rate iirc. So yes it ramps up the voltage going to the pump, but you can't tune the ramp curve. Which would be ok if this was a little cheaper. I priced out quick disconnect fittings, high pressure lines and all the little adapters that would be needed for a variable single nozzle kit and I came in under way under $100. I'll have to see if I can dig up the list. That just leaves the controller a shurflo pump and a reservoir. Pretty sure I can do that for under $473.

The Devils Own controller is cheaper and better. Again, just my .02

which nozzles did you find? So far I just have ones from mccarmaster.

I have a list with part numbers and links on one of my PCs. I priced out all the fittings and made sure I had the correct adapters for everything. I just gotta find the damn list...lol. The nozzles were from EBay not Mcmaster. Mcmaster required to many extra adapters and I didn't like the way they were going to be attached to the charge pipe. I'll track everything down and post it up.

WD

[eazye2000]

What vehicle did you pull your CSI from? I'm looking at some from the Toyota 22RE because they are a dime a dozen. But I can't find a clear picture of one to verify that it shoots to the side like that.

Anyways, as soon as I figure it out, or find one that suits, I will be hooking this up on the beast. Considering the time of year, it's still in the '70's during the day. Forgot how damned hot it gets here in FL. lolOh yeah, still need a boost pressure switch. Actually two of them cuz I'm working on the electronic boost controller too. But I'm poor, so we'll see how it goes. I'll update and threadjack this thread when the time comes.

*edit*Just verified that the 22RE injector is a straight shooter. damnit

[neverlift]

Got mine off a camry. You are running pretty high boost so the larger single nozzle should work. I just didnt like the depth it went into my charge pipe, it was too close to the other side of the pipe. Many vehicles have these things, bmw/volvo/yota...just look for the line coming off the fuel rail.

Guess I'll update again, system still works like a charm. I have yet to refill the tank, and seeing I have the csi set around 5psi it gets used a lot everyday.

[WDRacing]

It doesn't have to be side spray Eric. Just so long as the pump is high pressure you'll be good to go. People usually don't see issues until they run a low pressure pump, which won't "mist" the water enough. But every injection system I've done is just a nozzle of some kind spraying straight into the tube, so the fluid being injected hits the opposite side of the pipe. I've never had an issue using this method.

Side spray could be better I suppose, since I can't say for sure if the collision with the pipe helps atomize the water more or less. But there's no point looking for a side spray if you can pick up a normal one for cheap.

...................................................................................................................

Josh, I'm glad your system is still up and running with no snags. It just shows that things CAN be done on a wicked low budget if you're willing to get off your butt and do some work. I'm gonna try to get my S14 completely rewired this week. Once that nightmare is done I'll be motivated to get her up and boosted again.

WD

[neverlift]

yeah I am still pleased with it considering it cost so little.

I need a bigger pump though! and recommend to all to use a bigger pump!

maybe its time to run these off a relay see if I can get a bit more out of them. Or add a 3rd pump and no question of the need for relay then.

[WDRacing]

If you're going to add another pump and relay etc, just get a Shurflo. They aren't expensive man

[neverlift]

man I made a cpillar bar I am cheap. need I remind you I dont have a job. plus its the holidays and the cash is all going towards that bs...

I already have a 3rd pump and relays galore. The difference between one pump and two was phenomenal I can only see a 3rd right at the CSI increasing misting. IDK maybe I'll pull the system tomorrow and test my theory.

[eazye2000]

I hate to add a useless post. But Neverlift, shoot me an e-mail.e_appie (at) hotmail.com

[neverlift]

I love posting useless stuff

[neverlift]

my other pump is dead on attempt, however it got me out long enough to wire in a relay. Well worth the extra time and thought! I can easily say it added 3~5 more feet to the 10~12ish it was, atomization is also much better. Before it had a couple drops before actually misting, now its maybe a drop then fine mist

one day I wont be so lazy and will walk back inside for the cam while I have the pipe off, today was not t