Best setup for fun street car

[ADiamond75]

OK, well I have to rebuild the motor in my 240 because it had developed rod knock. As opposed to doing it with a quickness just to get it back on the road I'm gonna buy a daily driver and turn the 240 into a full on project car.

I am thinking about making it a fun daily drivable car with between 250-350 hp that will be used for auto-x. I also want a reliable setup ... so here's the question .. which way to go..

1.) Supercharged KA with 9.5:CR

2.) Turbocharged KA with 9.5:CR

3.) NA KA with 10.5:1 CR

I am looking for the best combo to produce a nice torque curve and good max HP. I do not want alot of turbo lag or a slug at under 2500 RPMS

And I don't want an SR or an LS1 or any other motor ... I'm sticking with the KA

please give me recommendations and explain why ....

Modified by ADiamond75 at 11:01 AM 8/20/2006
Modified by ADiamond75 at 11:01 AM 8/20/2006

[ADiamond75]

DAMN !!! No one has any opinions about this?

[superDorifto]

we have our opinions, but there are literally dozens of threads that are devoted specifically to your question in the archives already...hit the search button and when you have more specific questions about actual set-ups post a question. no need to start a new thread brother...

im personally going LS1 or LT1/LT4...

[artemous]

It also has to do with you being kinda new. I've found that you don't realy get responces untill you've been here for a thousand posts. I rarely get responces to my questions.

As for the answer in my oppinion, I've never heard of a supercharger kit for the KA. It will give more low end than a turbo but POTENTIALY less top end. Turbos are great. N/A are the cheapest but your limited to about 200 hp w/o bottle. How much are you willing to spend?

And congrats for not doing the KA swap. EVERYTHING I have seen says the KA is a much better engine. Then again, the tuner market seems to prefer starting with a small engine then try to "catch up" to the big boys.

[ADiamond75]

OK .. lets start with this then ....

Lets say I have a turbo KA

1.) Running 9.5 CR2.) Don't want a big turbo ... non more than 10psi, and efficient, which turbo would work best in this aplication .. my experiance with turbos is nill3.) What injectors to run?4.) With that little a boost is a different MAF nesissary?5.) If I get an AME EMS would all the features that came with my car still work, I have herd that they are one of the best tunable EMS's but really have no idea what it covers and doesn't. I know I would have to get a wideband O2 to monitor things but what about the rest of the sensors6.) Is there a way to make the car pass emisions with a turbo? And if so how?

OK, Now for the Supercharger ... with 9.5 CR pistons1.) Are there any other kits out there besides the Knight kit?2.) Should I change the MAF with this kit?3.) What size injectors would be required to push about 250 - 300hp, is there a formula that I can use to determine injector size?4.) anyone know if this kit maintains the EGR system and will it function properly5.) What am I forgetting to address?

Basic Questions ...

1.) What is too big a cam for 250-300 HP daily driver that is streetable2.) is EMS the better way to go or could an Emanage or SAFC II do just a good a job and allow me to pass emmisions

I know I am forgetting something so please add anything you wish, I want to basically discuss pros and cons of each option ...

Let the flaming begin

[artemous]

Sorry but I can't answer many of the technical. I'm not at all up on turbos but I can say a few things.

1) don't go to high with a blower. 8.5 - 9.0 cr max.

2) stock injectors will work to about 8 psi. Try 370 or 550 cc injectors. for higher. They will still work with the stock ECU.

3) A maf upgrade is good, will need to reprogram ecu or an aftermarket controler. Contact Jim Wolf Ent.

4) Wolf 275 cams will reduce eficiency and low end power. To big for a streetable engine. Go with a set of Nismo 248's

I would personaly contact Turbonetics and talk to them via phone. They have some great kits with all the parts.

Call YOUR states DMV and ask about the turbo upgrade and what you have to do. All states are different and some states don't have any restrictions.

Last, a methanol injection kit will allow you to run more boost without so much timing retard. Or lower boost without any timing retard. I've seen methanol boost hp in a modified KA from 320 to 400 by only retuning the timing to take advantage of it. Methanol carries oxygen so its like mild nitrous and it has an octane rating of 124. More over, it produces NO measureable emitions by todays testing std. The only byproduct of methanol is Water and CO2. If its pure that is.

How much do you want to spend on the engine? If your changing the CR then your rebuilding. Did you consider balancing, blue printing, GOOD piston rings, rods (stock are good to 400 so I hear), high volume oil pump (turbo will drop oil press but needs plenty), oil cooler, cyl head rebuild w/porting (stainless valves for turbo, stiffer springs for hotter cam). And sleeving the block for longevity (sleeves are made of better material and seal the rings better).

While many do, I wouldn't run over 8psi on a stock block. Even then, don't expect to get a whole lot of miles on it.

Oh, and you will need a hv fuel pump with a pressure regulator.

When your done, expect a 2-5 mpg drop. Depending on how heavy your foot is.

[HashiriyaS14]

I'd go with the KA-T.

KA superchargers are a relatively new development, and I'd wait for other people to make the mistakes if it were me.

An NA KA isn't going to produce the power that you're looking for, although I still think that they can be tremendous fun.

You can turbo a KA for cheap, and since you're already having to rebuild, use stronger internals.

[ddgsxr504]

Ok to go ahead and clear up any mis-confusion ...

You don't have to have over a 1000 post rating to get advice. The reason you probably don't get answers to your questions is because it is a simple answer that can easily found by searching either here on NICO or google ect.

It's not that we as senior members think you are beneath us but rather it gets monotinous to repeatly answer the same questions over and over again. I don't know about you but my typing skills are far from great and it takes along time to type out a huge 3 question thread post such as yours. Most people would be like "yea i would love to answer you but it's been asked and I don't really want to type all that $hit out".

I however am going to attempt to answer your questions....

If you go Turbo

10 psi would make a great daily and will be pretty easy to do. The block will withstand 10psi but unfortunately your internals won't for very long. I would suggest new piston rings, rod bearings and main bearings. Depending on the milage of your KA I would also suggest a new oil pump and a Walbro fuel pump. A standard T25 to T28 turbo will do. An AEM EMS would be perfect as it is a piggy back system and very easily utilized. As for injectors I would say use 370's as they would be more than suffcient for 10psi. Even though your stock ECU can handle 370's you will still need to have some sort of A/F tuning done other wise you will have a dead spot about 4000rpms, this is where the EMS would come in handy or an APEXi unit. A compression ratio of 9.5 to 1 is stock for the KA24DE so no modifications will be necessary there. Passing smog is out of the question unless you know someone.

Supercharger:

Not to many kits available at a cost effective price, most SC kits are custom fabricated (home made). They will produce noticible HP/TQ gains but the SC runs of the motor so you will be sacrifcing some some power as well. A lot of custom fabbing will be needed and this by far is the most difficult of the 3 options. If you have time and money then go for it as I know there are plenty of 240 guys waiting to jump on a marketable SC kit.

Now for the NA part...

Going NA on a KA is possible and if done correctly will yield pleasurable results but only at the expense of your wallet. When it is all said and done you could have easily gotten more power out of a turbo kit for the same price.

[240DRFT]

N/A are the cheapest but your limited to about 200 hp w/o bottle. How much are you willing to spend?

its not the cheapest if your trying to get 200hp. youd need to do a complete build with everything, and itd cost you thousands. not worth it imo.

a decent turbo setup sounds like the best choice. maybe like a s14 or s15 t28 on like 10lbs. fmic, safc, injectors and other stuff.

[ADiamond75]

I had planned on doing Pauter or Crower Rods

I am also going to use Wiesco or CP pistons .... unless someone knows of a better brand. Which manufacturer is known for building the most durable pistons and rings ?

Good to know about the cams ... I didn't realize Nismo sold the 248 cams .... anyone know where to find them at a good price?

Also good to know about sleeving the block, I think this will definatly be the way I go.

And yes, this is going to be a long time project, I have planned on having the car down for a year, maybe more while I do the build. Basically all my extra cash will be dumped into the car for the next year or so.

I guess Garrett (sp?) turbos would be the way to go using a T25 then, unless someone has a better recommendation.

I though the stock CR was 9:1 not 9:5:1 ... I wanted to run slightly higher than stock CR regardless of turbo or SC. I want to do this to add alittle low end torque and to make the turbo less anemic.

So the AME EMS is a piggyback? I was under the impression that it was a stand alone that 'replaced' the stock ECU. So all my sensors and features will continue to work the same way then ? (i.e. - my check engine light won't come on unless there really is a problem, also, the check engine light is an imediate fail of emissions in Texas)

Also, do any of the turbo manifolds come with the port for the EGR, or is that on the down pipe? And will the EGR system be able to be left intact with a turbo ?

High pressure oil pump? Where and how much? I have only seen the stock replacement and would love too push more oil. I like the lube!

Also, I am planning on using a crank scraper and windge tray (sp?) as well as balancing the bottom end and porting and pollishing everything that it can be done to internally (i.e. head, intake, am I forgetting anything?) ....

I was also thinking about using Iconnal (sp?, yes, I know, I am a horrible speller) valves, is this nessisary for a 10psi turbo, I don't want to go overboard, I do it all to often as it is.

And yeah, I tried messing around with the search utility but wasn't finding all the answers to my questions, and knew that more would arrise as my specific questions were answered, so rather than starting 10000 threads for each question, I stated my goals and all my quesitons as a way to start the discussion rolling in order to create an open dialoge that could be followed for my specific build.

Thanks for the replys guys, keep em comming and I'll come up with more questions.
Modified by ADiamond75 at 8:54 PM 8/22/2006

[240DRFT]

if your talking about building the ka, use something bigger than a t25 turbo

[ADiamond75]

if your talking about building the ka, use something bigger than a t25 turbo

why? I don't want turbo lag

[831_salinas240sx]

You know what? thanks for releasing this thread. I am also trying to decied to go turbo. but primarily my concern was wheather to go SR, CA, or rebuild the KA and proceed. but know that your helping me out further, please continue. and here in california, if you add turbo to a non-turbo car, you wont pass smog. so like everyone else says, you have to know someone that will bypass you. and yeah, i am also aiming towards 200-300 HP but mainly torque. Just make sure you ask the right questions and I'll look and see if there are additional questions that should be answered.

Thanks for the time guys

[artemous]

A T2871RS turbo with the setup can be fairly lag free. A 25 will have less lag but far less potential HP wise. If you don't plan on doing any drag racing, maybe a bit of street light drags, or just a nice driveable street car then a 25 should work but probably limited to about 250 hp.

As for the other comment. If the searching ever turned up results to my questions I wouldn't have to ask. And if they are so prevelent, why doesn't some body say "well that topics been discussed, here's a link XXXXXXXX.nicoclub.com"

[ddgsxr504]

Damn you are needy. J/K

Ok no Turbo manifold comes with an EGR connection unless you make one which is one reason for smog failure.

Yes the AEM EMS is a piggy back which means yes all your stock $hit will still function.

Just replace the oil pump with a new OEM one. You don't need a high pressure one. I don't even think anyone makes one for the KA.

As for a crankscraper/windage tray you will most likely be making one of those yourself too, I could be wrong about that though it's just I have never seen one.

No need to sleeve the block as it is already cast iron.

I would personally go with Crower rods and Weisco Pistons.

[ADiamond75]

THere is a company that makes a crank scrapper and windge tray for the KA ... I'll post the link later when I find it again ... there like $100 a piece

here it is ..

http://crank-scrapers.com/prod01.html
Modified by ADiamond75 at 8:09 AM 8/24/2006

[SeanC]

why do you keep calling aem ems a piggy back? it is a complete replacement standalone ecu with very advanced features and a very "wide" map. 20x20 i think for fuel and timing. aem ems is far from a piggy back.

[Fahaka]

with all of the work you are going to do...you better have a better idea of what you are going to want and how it works.

Based on what I have read, you have not done this before..so, my suggestion would be to go with a ca18det because it is cheap, go with the stock setup and then make upgrades over time as you learn...plus it is tough and cheap (relatively).

The ka is a good motor, but it is easy to break it if you don't know what you are doing.

[barcode]

i think ddgsxr504 is thinking about the greddy E-Manage, that oneis a piggy back unit, a fairly good one if you dont want to spend close to 1500, on the AEM EMS.

[ddgsxr504]

i think ddgsxr504 is thinking about the greddy E-Manage, that oneis a piggy back unit, a fairly good one if you dont want to spend close to 1500, on the AEM EMS.

Oops... yea I was referring to the Greddy E-manage sorry. The E-manage is very good and does just about everything the EMS will. Honestly though I didn't know the EMS was so much $$$.

[WI_S14_Goldie]

NOS man...NOS...Dude its ****en awesome...Everytime i shoot NOS my vision gets all BLurry...

[831_salinas240sx]

ONe more things guys. other than switching out everything from the motor, what would have to be done to the ECU chip? and about how much would it cost if it would need to be replaced.

[Fahaka]

Careful don't be doing that while you are driving...

[WI_S14_Goldie]

Careful don't be doing that while you are driving...

LoL... yea man...

[ADiamond75]

with all of the work you are going to do...you better have a better idea of what you are going to want and how it works.

Based on what I have read, you have not done this before..so, my suggestion would be to go with a ca18det because it is cheap, go with the stock setup and then make upgrades over time as you learn...plus it is tough and cheap (relatively).

The ka is a good motor, but it is easy to break it if you don't know what you are doing.

ummm .. yeah .. umm ... I think I said I wanted to stay with the KA and I will learn as the project comes together ... thats why the car is going to be down for awhile .... learning curve. That is also why I am asking so many questions and tagging along at all the swaps/builds I can. I am determined, a fast learner and don't go into anything blind.

That's one of the reason I started this thread, needed to ask some of my own questions and then build on them after answers were given. Thanks for the concern, but I could screw up a CA just as easily as a KA ... difference is that parts for the KA are easier to come by.

[ADiamond75]

why do you keep calling aem ems a piggy back? it is a complete replacement standalone ecu with very advanced features and a very "wide" map. 20x20 i think for fuel and timing. aem ems is far from a piggy back.

OK ... that's kinda what I thought too ... but I have never seen/used one.

Someone that is using one please pipe up and talk about how well they work, tuning features, what sensors work with it, what ones need to be replaces, and any other helpfull information would be great ...

Now back on topic ... and yeah, no NOS, just not gonna do it.

[MoldyOldy240]

I'm not a fan of turbo lag. I'm a real big fan of super chargers, and heres why:My room mate has a 96 Thunderbird super coupe which makes about 230 HP and about 330 torque

My friend has a Dodge stealth R/T Twin turbo which makes 320 HP and about 315 Torque.

Now if you put both of those cars into the same turn, the t-bird will pull out faster then the stealth, every time. I've seen this in person many times. Both drivers are equally skilled.

I'm looking for the same thing you are, and I've been talking to alot of people that have made a career out of building highly modified race cars althrough California, and time and time again they tell me that if I am looking for street performance, a supercharger is the way to go. I will say I one day will be a guinea pig for Wolfs SC kit. The idea is very interesting to me, and if you have the know how to really build the bottom end of an engine up, you can make a MONSTER of a car out of the 240. Anyways, there's my two cents on the subject at hand.

[Veriest1]

^ I think you're thinking of a roots or twin screw type blower. A centrifigal supercharger is more top end than low end since it's directly based off engine RPM's.

Twin Screws are teh sex.

[ADiamond75]

so someon design and build one now !!!! This really is the way to go I think, and so far knights kit is the only one I have seen. Are there any others in the production phase right now?

[MoldyOldy240]

Not that I know of, but Knights to me (and what little knowledge I know) is pretty solid, the man presents himself with a wealth of knowledge.

And yes, twin screw is teh mad sex.