Auto Repair Ripoff

[alms24sebring]

lol how did I miss that thread. Major fail on a dealerships part. Probably some teenagers trying to know everything. How can you just leave a ground wire just chillin ilke that?!? And dont hate on Aveos lol, they have good headroom for tall mofos like me

[LEMHEAD16]

Ian speaks TROOF

[MinisterofDOOM]

Show them you know.

Familiarize yourself with the owner's manual -- you'll avoid unnecessary maintenance if you know what needs to be done at every service interval. When choosing a repair shop, make sure the technicians are ASE certified by the National Institute for Automotive Service Excellence.

Use all your senses to describe a problem, says auto expert Lauren Fix, author of Lauren Fix's Guide to Loving Your Car (St. Martin's Griffin, $17.99). If you say you feel the car pulling to the left, particularly at speeds faster than 40 miles per hour, or you hear a knocking sound only when you turn right, it shows that you've been paying attention and may help the technician diagnose the problem faster.

Sounds good in theory, but also depends on your mechanic or tech or whoever actually LISTENING to you. I can't tell you the number of times I've taken a car to a shop prepared with lots of diagnostic details only to have those details thrown in my face. I understand mechanics "do this for a living" but I still know what the Hell I'm talking about. And starting over from square one isn't doing anyone any favors. Did you know that, way back in the day, the word "amateur" was a positive term and even a compliment, because it went along with the implication that HOBBYISTS cared more for their craft than professionals?
<======Amateur

[Pento240sx]

Like this girl that went to the autozone I work at and told me that a mechanic charge her $40 Dollars to change a light bulb on her altima and the mechanic did not even change the right one (changed the high beam, when it was the low beam). She also told me that the mechanic was going to charge her another $70 to "fix" the problem, wich was just the low beam and fuse, wich I did it in like 10 minutes and for free(well exept parts of course). I have lot's of more stories like these. I hate when mechanics try to take advantage of people that are not mechanicly inclined. But I have saved a lot of people of those abusive ***holes.

[PoorManQ45]

Good point Ian. I don't know what happens when you put PS fluid in a brake fluid reservoir but I knew a woman who had her motor filled up with transmission fluid once. Guess who got a new motor free of charge?

A $6,000 bill getting paid by someone else.

PS fluid + brake fluid = dissolving rubber. Dissolving rubber = Destroyed master cylinder, reservoir, proportioning valve, ABS solenoid assembly, all brake hoses/lines, and all the brake callipers. Every single hydrolic part of the braking system needs replacing. Its not pretty.

The local valvoline is not going to have a good December.

please explain that $6000 bill. I'd like a breakdown.

that sounds like a BS price

[Speedy7_7]

I have worked on my own cars ever since I got them.

Here's Why: My dad is a Hydrolic Drafting Tech, a mechanically inclined guy. He worked on all his own vehicles out of necessity, when he started earning more money, he had less time to do his own work. When I was younger, my parents had older, crappy cars, its all they could afford. My dad's car needed a battery, just a battery, he took my moms car to work after jump starting his own and my mom took the car to a rather reputable national chain of repair shops.

She got the battery replaced and they told her that the alternator needed replacing, she said no. They also told her that a cv boot was ripped, and she would need to replace the cv shaft, she said no. They also told her that she needed new brakes all around pads, rotors, shoes, drums, she said no. She drove the car home and parked it.

When my dad got home from work, she told him what what the shop had said needed to be done. He laughed it off and went out to look at the car knowing that he had just replaced both cv shafts earlier in the summer, done the brakes a month ago, and the alternator was fine.

The car wouldn't start, dead battery. he started poking around under the hood and quickly discovered that the mechanic had wrapped a chunk of pop can around the negative battery terminal. (Pretty convenient way to sell an alternator)

The true fury didn't come until he jacked the car up to discover the cv boot had been cut (obviously cut), the lower ball joint boot had been cut, the lower ball joint nut had been backed off about half way.

He calmly told me to go inside and he left, I honestly do not know what happened, but his face was as red as it could get. He came back a few hours later with a rental car, he never talked about what he said, or what they did, but the car was back a few days later and actually lasted long enough for me to learn how to drive stick in it. It was a 1991 Ford Escort with 195,000 miles on it when we sold it to my friend Adam as his first car in 1999. It nearly hit 300k before it died. I don't know if that shop had anything to do with the unusual longevity or not.


But, I also see Ians perspective. I've worked at Tires Plus, I once had a woman come in and explain that we didn't fill her oil during her oil change. Man, that would be dumb, but it happens. But no, she meant we didn't literally fill her engine with oil, to the top, after some questioning she admitted to putting roughly 15 quarts on top of the 4.5 we had already put in. She wanted us to replace her motor for free. It was awesome watching her yell. I pulled her car into the shop, it actually ran! Oil was leaking from everywhere, every seal was blown, there was a nice stream of oil pouring out of her tail pipe. No maam, we did not rip you off, I'm sorry that you are incapable of thought, go grow your fingernails some more.

And PMQ: $6000 is easy. Factor in 90/hr of book time plus all that new abs stuff and you got $6000 easy. Have you ever run brake hard lines through a newer car, Neither have I, But I imagine it would be my version of hell.

[PoorManQ45]

I guess. new cars suck to work on. I was thinking of old cars that you could change out everything in a couple of hours in your driveway.

[krimsonviper]

I use to get crap all the time at AutoZone when I went in to buy parts because they thought I was the typical dumb woman. They tried to tell what what was wrong with my car and what I needed to do to it....blah, blah, blah. "Just give me my battery Junior, and No, I don't need you too hook it up for me."

"But, but... I'm just trying to impress you!"

Yeah, I don't like shops or parts stores. If I can do it myself, I will. I've had single direction tires put on backwards, shops try and tell me my drive shaft was bent and causing a wobble in my steering wheel(which turned out to be a bad axle, not the drive shaft), people cut off my splash guard to take out an oil filter and not replace it, and put too much oil in the engine and all of these incidents in different shops.

Yeah, you're not touching my car unless I can work on it right beside you, or I watch you like a hawk.

[Rev_D21]

I went for Toyota T-Ten training because I was sick of the BS. I do all my own work 99% of the time. The other 1% is handled by two Nissan techs who have been in the business since the mid 1980s. I have one alignment guy as well. No one else touches my truck.

[driverdriver]

If people read the maintenance interval section of their owners manuals and performed the service at the recommended interval, a lot of this "scamming" would stop. Driver's who neglect maintenance and let problems 'snowball' into a larger problem are most likely to get scammed.

[tigersharkdude]

Long story short, my cousin took his prelude to a "well known" local shop to have the harmonic balancer replaced. After a quote of $1300 I was like "F that dude, go get your car". When he brought it home I noticed that 3 bolts holding the transmission in were very loose, and the front lugs/studs were stripped. Do note that these problems were not there the day before.....

[IanS]

And PMQ: $6000 is easy. Factor in 90/hr of book time plus all that new abs stuff and you got $6000 easy. Have you ever run brake hard lines through a newer car, Neither have I, But I imagine it would be my version of hell.

Pfft. $90 an Hour? You must be getting old. We charge $100 an hour. Dealerships are charging more like $150 an hour now, many even higher.

$6,000 is very easy. I just glanced at the dealers estimate, but it would go something like this.

Front calipers, $400
Rear calipers, $600
Front pads $ 150
Rear pads $100
Front hardware kit $50
Rear hardware kit $50
Front rotors $300
Rear rotors $200
Front brake hoses $200
Rear brake hoses $200
Assorted brake hardlines $1000
ABS actuators and pump assembly $800
Master cylinder $200
Master cylinder resivoir $100
Diagnostic fee $150
Assorted labor $1500

While I may have just pulled those numbers out of my butt, PMQ, I urge you go log onto Nissan's FAST software, and look up all the parts for this. Then imagine private dealership markup.

To have me do it, it would have been around $4000, but that was with a lower labor rate, and retaining the factory hardlines.

[PoorManQ45]

thank you. I do not doubt the prices for a second.

you reminded why dealerships are retarded. rubber lines for $200!!! stainless are cheaper. lol.

for that price a wilwood (sp) upgrade would save thousands!

[zacmil]

A friend told me a story about his girlfriend at the time who was having some issues with her Altima (I can't recall what they were). She took it to her local Nissan dealership where they told her that her carburetor needed replacing and quoted some ridiculous price. Fortunately my friend suggested to her that they check somewhere else before paying for any repairs.

[Ace2cool]

Altima. Carburetor. SRSLY?????

[Jesda]

Anyhow, his replacement was a Camaro-driving-douchebag and I guess was emasculated by my request or something. He argued with me for a good 5min that the caster was not adjustable on my car

You should have twirled your hair while chewing gum just to make him feel like a bigger moron for being wrong.

[IanS]

Anyhow, his replacement was a Camaro-driving-douchebag and I guess was emasculated by my request or something. He argued with me for a good 5min that the caster was not adjustable on my car

You should have twirled your hair while chewing gum just to make him feel like a bigger moron for being wrong.

For some reason I envision a power puff girls T shirt.

[alms24sebring]

Oh yes.. prices at the stealership are outragous even for some simple rubber lines. I asked how much for a windshield one time for my 240 just to see what they would say. $850 just for the glass! haha yeah right, I got one for $125 with a warantee. The notorius AC trim piece was over $100, with the discount. My rear main seal was I think $40 w/ the discount. I know they need to make money but come on..

Everything on that list is fairly accurate. Some ABS pumps/assemblies are waaaaay more expensive than that. Labor rates around here are from $90 private shop to $130+/hr from a dealer. It really is a pure ripoff. And yes newer cars are a giant whore. It takes 30 mins to change a head/tail/turning light in a new VW Beetle.. seriously. On the same car, it takes like 3 hours to change a window regulator. It comes as a giant assembly with the window, a complicated cage around it, and riveted in tight spots. WWWHHHHYYYYYYYY!?!?!?

[HashiriyaS14]

My S14 developed a fuel line leak on Thursday evening (presumably from too many years of hot/cold/hot/cold)

I took it to a shop that I had zero personal experience with but that came very highly recommended. Normally I'd address this myself, but we have a newborn and I don't have the time.

This shop is ACE. They did everything in no time, $137 parts and labor, and they even talked me out of having them replace my fuel filter (they said it looks brand new).

Winkler Automotive in Gaithersburg MD, if anyone is local. Highly recommended.


EDIT: They even have 7:30am pickup for those of us that can't miss work.

[IanS]

Oh yes.. prices at the stealership are outragous even for some simple rubber lines. I asked how much for a windshield one time for my 240 just to see what they would say. $850 just for the glass! haha yeah right, I got one for $125 with a warantee. The notorius AC trim piece was over $100, with the discount. My rear main seal was I think $40 w/ the discount. I know they need to make money but come on..

Everything on that list is fairly accurate. Some ABS pumps/assemblies are waaaaay more expensive than that.

Here is another area where I have found many misconceptions.

While I agree the prices are too high on a lot of stuff from the dealership, there are reasons. The biggest reason is quality. This year alone I hung over $120,000 worth of parts on cars. The majority of which were from aftermarket suppliers. Stuff from places you all know and use for your parts. I will tell you first hand, there is absolutely no comparison in quality between OE, and meets OE specifications. Sure for something like a serpentine belt, or fuel filter, there is little difference. But when it comes to things like water pumps, alternators, or power steering racks, I wouldn't put them on my own cars. Many of these hard parts are far to expensive to build from scratch, so most of them are re-manufactured. While a cheaper alternative it may be, there are many disadvantages. It may be the cheap labor these companies are sourcing, or the parts they use, but whatever the cause, there is an impressive failure rate. From the 3 largest aftermarket suppliers, 1 in 5 alternators will fail within the first 1000 miles. 1 in 10 power steering pumps will leak like a sieve from the moment its installed. And 1 in 10 CV axle joints will rattle on corners a month after its put in. Personally I think its unacceptable. The problem is, the only people who know about it, are guys like me, and apparently nobody listens to us.

Now there is a flip side to this, a lot of aftermarket companies are making better than OE quality wear items. Things like brake pads and rotors, shock absorbers, or tie rod ends, are often of better quality, and will last longer, or perform better then the OE equivalent. That being said, the old saying stands, you get what you pay for.

My S14 developed a fuel line leak on Thursday evening (presumably from too many years of hot/cold/hot/cold)

I took it to a shop that I had zero personal experience with but that came very highly recommended. Normally I'd address this myself, but we have a newborn and I don't have the time.

This shop is ACE. They did everything in no time, $137 parts and labor, and they even talked me out of having them replace my fuel filter (they said it looks brand new).

Winkler Automotive in Gaithersburg MD, if anyone is local. Highly recommended.


EDIT: They even have 7:30am pickup for those of us that can't miss work.

There are tons of mom and pop shops out there that do unbelievable work. They have limited overhead, and only a few employees who have typically been with them for years. This kind of place develops trust between employees, and subsequently customers. Every car owner should have a guy like this, a guy they know and trust.

This brings me to another point. I here a lot of stories about how people are mistreated. While it may be unacceptable, the truth is many people in the auto repair bizz get berated on a daily basis. It shocks me how vile some people can be. I know it sucks when things dont go as planned, but check your attitude. Everyone makes mistakes, and the more cars you see, the better the chances. This is one of the reasons fast lubes have gotten such a bad name (one of many). When you see 60+ cars a day, someone is bound to eat a retard sandwich sooner or later. Its just too bad their customer service is rarely around to make up for it. The culture these days has trained people. Too many people expect more, in less time, for less money. Again though, you get what you pay for, both with time and money. If you are in a rush, and you are antsy pantsy waiting for your car to be done, then the people working on your car are likely rushing. This is one of the biggest causes of mistakes. You wouldn't rush the guy who is poking around in your chest cavity fixing your heart, dont rush the guy putting on your new timing belt.

Now these things aren't always true, but often are. Granted some people wil screw you, and some of you will get taken for a ride (sorry James), but the automotive industry as a whole is much better than it was even 5 years ago. People seem to focus on the bad experiences, without remembering the good ones. Sure some jiffy lube tech drained your transmission instead of your oil, but how many times had you had your car worked on before?

Hash's story made me think about that. I think this thread should have good and bad stories. Lets hear about those mechanics who were up all night getting you back on the road, or fixed you up for free, no questions asked. Why does everyone want to talk about the bad stuff.

I'll toot my own horn. I worked on New Years Eve. A guy named Todd had his car towed in as I was about to leave. It had died as he was leaving for out of town to see his sun. The spark plug wires on his V6 Galant had gotten so old that the wet weather had increased the already high resistance old wires enough to force spark to burn through the distributor cap and into the battery tray. I stayed more than 3 hours late removing the intake manifold to replace the plug wires, cap, and rotor, as well as the valve cover gaskets that were filling his spark plug tubes with oil. I got him back on the road and he made it to where he was going.

I've been working on Todds car for a long time, and I could tell, when I gave him his keys, I will be working on it for a lot longer. Its got 260,000 miles, and still strong.