Any Electric Fan Setups Out There?

Post by **PATHFINDER99NI** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 6:51 am

Has anyone ever seen one of these trucks with an electric fan setup? I noticed the spot for the e-fan relay and fuse, and Ive looked in the JY's, but Ive never seen such a beast. Does anyone have one?

Has anyone ever added one? I would think Sentra or Maxima efan would do the trick, but Ive never looked into it. Im getting ready to get the AC going once again on my '99 LE and I would sure like to have a efan setup. I LS swapped my '95 Suburban and went with efans, and even on the hottest days, in bumper to bumper traffic, you can hang a side of beef in the back, no problem. I could never say that with the mechanical fan.

My Pathfinder is daily driven, with 245/65/17's, so I think efans would work perfect.

What say you guys?

EDIT: After a bit of searching, I found this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDibzo2SWwc
I read through some comments and found that 2010 Rogue fans work perfect and are brushless. I guess that means they are more efficient and last longer.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:00 am

There are a lot of ways to skin the electric cat once you find a fan or set of fans that fits in the hole. You probably shouldn't call them all e-fans, though. In the industry that's reserved for PWM-able variable speed units (you can do that too, there are a couple of good stand-alone PWM controllers available today). Brushless (BLDC) fans are definitely more reliable in any case, whether they're single-speed or PWM.

Post by **PATHFINDER99NI** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 9:22 am

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 21, 2022 8:00 am
There are a lot of ways to skin the electric cat once you find a fan or set of fans that fits in the hole. You probably shouldn't call them all e-fans, though. In the industry that's reserved for PWM-able variable speed units (you can do that too, there are a couple of good stand-alone PWM controllers available today). Brushless (BLDC) fans are definitely more reliable in any case, whether they're single-speed or PWM.

I was referring to them as e-fans because I planned on connecting them to the ECU and letting that turn the fans on and off. Of course if the ECU doesn't have the capability, Ill refer to them as electric fans.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:12 am

There's definitely no ECM output on an R50, you can see the pinout here on EC-107:
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 9%2Fec.pdf

However, hooking up a separate temperature switch and relay isn't rocket science. There are lots of kits for adding a 1-speed electric, you just need to tee a spot for a sensor. On an R50 the best spot is probably the little "U" hose that connects the cylinder head to the intake manifold, that will get reliably hot even if there's a loss of coolant flow. You don't want to use an adaptor on a main radiator hose, those will go cold if the 'stat sticks or the water pump quits. Derale makes some very nice 1-speed wiring kits with sensors:
https://derale.com/product-footer/elect ... kit-detail

With a dual fan, most people run both when the coolant switch is on and just one with the A/C. That's easy too, just a relay driven by the A/C clutch circuit and another driven by the main coolant switch. I can show you how to do all that stuff.

To go PWM isn't rocket science either. You do need a controller, but if you use one of these then you can tap the existing temperature signal to the ECM and there will be no sensor to worry about. Full disclosure, I have a stake in some of WM's products, but I like their controller better anyway because it's self-learning. Lingenfelter makes a similar product, but it needs a predefined sensor and doesn't control the fan as nicely with A/C:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143561612623

For a fan, Lincoln Mk8 and most Chevy truck fans all move a crapload of air, so a single one will do the job. SPAL also makes a full line of excellent e-fans if you want to go new instead of raiding the JY.

The big advantage to going electric is on the highway, where the fan will never push more air or use more power than what the engine temperature requires. On square-box vehicles like your Pathy, many people claim as much as a couple mpg in gas savings from going electric, whether it's 1-speed or variable.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 2:04 pm

For those interested, here's how to wire up a dual fan for 1x A/C operation:

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:20 pm

I forgot to mention, the Mk8's are beasts but they're DC and not PWM, so you need a Solid State Relay (SSR) to drive them variable speed. That isn't difficult, but finding a suitable DC SSR (at least 60-amp) at a good price can be challenging. The China-cheap SSR's don't last long. The Lincoln LS fans from 02~06 are also beasts and they're true PWM e-fans, as are Corvette C6 and C7 fans, GenV Chevy truck and Camaro fans, and lots of BMW/Merc/Volvo stuff.

Post by **AZhitman** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 4:55 pm

I'm running a pair of 8" electric fans on my D21, with a custom shroud, an oversized aluminum radiator, and an adjustable temp switch.

Post by **PATHFINDER99NI** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:52 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:12 am
There's definitely no ECM output on an R50, you can see the pinout here on EC-107:
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 9%2Fec.pdf

However, hooking up a separate temperature switch and relay isn't rocket science. There are lots of kits for adding a 1-speed electric, you just need to tee a spot for a sensor. On an R50 the best spot is probably the little "U" hose that connects the cylinder head to the intake manifold, that will get reliably hot even if there's a loss of coolant flow. You don't want to use an adaptor on a main radiator hose, those will go cold if the 'stat sticks or the water pump quits. Derale makes some very nice 1-speed wiring kits with sensors:
https://derale.com/product-footer/elect ... kit-detail

With a dual fan, most people run both when the coolant switch is on and just one with the A/C. That's easy too, just a relay driven by the A/C clutch circuit and another driven by the main coolant switch. I can show you how to do all that stuff.

To go PWM isn't rocket science either. You do need a controller, but if you use one of these then you can tap the existing temperature signal to the ECM and there will be no sensor to worry about. Full disclosure, I have a stake in some of WM's products, but I like their controller better anyway because it's self-learning. Lingenfelter makes a similar product, but it needs a predefined sensor and doesn't control the fan as nicely with A/C:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/143561612623

For a fan, Lincoln Mk8 and most Chevy truck fans all move a crapload of air, so a single one will do the job. SPAL also makes a full line of excellent e-fans if you want to go new instead of raiding the JY.

The big advantage to going electric is on the highway, where the fan will never push more air or use more power than what the engine temperature requires. On square-box vehicles like your Pathy, many people claim as much as a couple mpg in gas savings from going electric, whether it's 1-speed or variable.

Holy s***, thanks for all of the info! Damn, that is a lot to go through. I really appreciate that.

I would definitely like to tap onto the existing ECU temp sensor and go the PMW route. You mention single speed, I thought they all were single speed? Does the fan have a low speed for regular hot temp and a second speed for overheating temps? Or a low speed for regular hot temp and a high speed that kicks on when the AC is turned on, along with the second fan?

I would like to go the dual fan route. That's how I went with my Suburban, and it really works well. As I mentioned earlier, a 2010 Rogue electric fan setup is said to fit perfect. I will pay a visit to the JY and see if I can confirm that. I would setup the second fan to kick on with the AC. Can the ECU be programmed to add more RPM's when the AC is turned on? I was supposed to do that on my Suburban, but never got around to it. Whenever I kick on the AC, the truck bogs for a quick millisecond. Its enough to be annoyed, I'd like to avoid that on the Pathfinder.

Any MPG gain would be amazing, this lump kills me in gas.

Ill look into that PMW controller. It looks like a nice item for $65.

Hey thanks again for the help, this is much more than I was expecting.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:26 pm

There are DC fans with two speeds, Nissan actually uses some. They have a low speed coil and a high speed coil. The trouble woth using them for a retrofit is, you need a 2-speed controller. Going full variable with a PWM-able BLDC (brushless DC) uses a controller too, but it gives you the advantage of always having the exact right speed instead of powering the fan in pulses. BLDC's are very powerful, too, so generally one big one covers everything. You can drive those Rogue fans variable too, but you'll need a pair of SSR's along with a controller. However, they might already be 2-speed. Let me look it up for you tomorrow and I'll come back with what I think is your best course.

Post by **PATHFINDER99NI** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:28 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:26 pm
There are DC fans with two speeds, Nissan actually uses some. They have a low speed coil and a high speed coil. The trouble woth using them for a retrofit is, you need a 2-speed controller. Going full variable with a PWM-able BLDC (brushless DC) uses a controller too, but it gives you the advantage of always having the exact right speed instead of powering the fan in pulses. BLDC's are very powerful, too, so generally one big one covers everything. You can drive those Rogue fans variable too, but you'll need a pair of SSR's along with a controller. However, they might already be 2-speed. Let me look it up for you tomorrow and I'll come back with what I think is your best course.

Great information again! Ill be looking forward to your update!

Post by **VStar650CL** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:30 pm

PATHFINDER99NI wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:52 pm
Ill look into that PMW controller. It looks like a nice item for $65.

Hey thanks again for the help, this is much more than I was expecting.

I've actually been expecting this topic to crop up, given how everybody is scrounging for fuel savings these days. You really just gave me an opportunity to run off about it. FYI, I helped WM design the $65 one and it is a nice piece.

Post by **Mike W.** » Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:50 pm

Not exactly what you are talking about, but I'll throw it out there anyway. I added an Aux fan to mine some years ago due to flirting with disaster with the A/C on and extreme temps (110+) in either stop and go traffic or off road climbing steep hills. Being a BMW nut I went with a BMW fan I had in the garage. At that vintage they used a resistor to effect 2 speeds which I used to go with low speed with A/C and high speed at middle of the range of the fan controller I bought. Even in those conditions it hasn't budged since. I've had cars with marginal cooling systems in the past and am head gasket paranoid, so I like a steady temp gauge.

topic616904.html

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:33 am

It looks like the gen1 Rogue fans are single speed but with 4 terminals to enable extra wiring for high-low operation. They drive the fans series for low and parallel for high. It's a pretty freaky setup with 5 control relays, I think to avoid using large, expensive relays inside the IPDM. Terminals 1~2 on each fan are power, terminals 3~4 are ground. See page EC-900 here:
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 0%2FEC.pdf
The bottom line is, the dual setup I showed earlier will work fine with them, but I recommend driving all 4 motor terminals and not just 2 so the internal motor connections share the load.

Post by **PATHFINDER99NI** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:25 am

Mike W. wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 21, 2022 11:50 pm
Not exactly what you are talking about, but I'll throw it out there anyway. I added an Aux fan to mine some years ago due to flirting with disaster with the A/C on and extreme temps (110+) in either stop and go traffic or off road climbing steep hills. Being a BMW nut I went with a BMW fan I had in the garage. At that vintage they used a resistor to effect 2 speeds which I used to go with low speed with A/C and high speed at middle of the range of the fan controller I bought. Even in those conditions it hasn't budged since. I've had cars with marginal cooling systems in the past and am head gasket paranoid, so I like a steady temp gauge.

topic616904.html

Looks like a good setup. I love the electric fans, its such a huge leap over the mechanical units.

Post by **PATHFINDER99NI** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:32 am

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 21, 2022 7:30 pm

PATHFINDER99NI wrote: ↑
Thu Jul 21, 2022 5:52 pm
Ill look into that PMW controller. It looks like a nice item for $65.

Hey thanks again for the help, this is much more than I was expecting.
I've actually been expecting this topic to crop up, given how everybody is scrounging for fuel savings these days. You really just gave me an opportunity to run off about it. FYI, I helped WM design the $65 one and it is a nice piece.

For me, a crisp cold AC system is my primary goal. I haven't had a proper working AC system in a few years, and this year is really burning my a**. So I went and bought a AC compressor kit that has pretty much everything, and I figured since I was going to get all that, I might as well help it along by getting a proper electric fan setup.
Well it looks like a nice piece, the dip switches have me a little concerned though. Will that be ok with the vibrations in a vehicle?

Post by **PATHFINDER99NI** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:36 am

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 22, 2022 4:33 am
It looks like the gen1 Rogue fans are single speed but with 4 terminals to enable extra wiring for high-low operation. They drive the fans series for low and parallel for high. It's a pretty freaky setup with 5 control relays, I think to avoid using large, expensive relays inside the IPDM. Terminals 1~2 on each fan are power, terminals 3~4 are ground. See page EC-900 here:
https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual ... 0%2FEC.pdf
The bottom line is, the dual setup I showed earlier will work fine with them, but I recommend driving all 4 motor terminals and not just 2 so the internal motor connections share the load.

So if the Rogue fans fit as well as I read that they fit, your module wouldn't have a problem controlling them? It sounds like the wiring will be a bit complicated, but I spliced a '95 Suburban harness to a '04 Suburban harness, so Im sure I can wire up this harness.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 1:59 pm

PATHFINDER99NI wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:32 am
Well it looks like a nice piece, the dip switches have me a little concerned though. Will that be ok with the vibrations in a vehicle?

It won't be a problem if you RTV them after setup as the instructions recommend. WM uses those same DIPs in a crapload of different products. Vibration isn't really an issue but moisture is, you want to seal them up.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Jul 22, 2022 2:18 pm

PATHFINDER99NI wrote: ↑
Fri Jul 22, 2022 7:36 am
So if the Rogue fans fit as well as I read that they fit, your module wouldn't have a problem controlling them? It sounds like the wiring will be a bit complicated, but I spliced a '95 Suburban harness to a '04 Suburban harness, so Im sure I can wire up this harness.

You can only drive the Rogue setup with PWM if you use an SSR, they aren't designed for variable speed. If you want to go that route, you'll need to measure the current through both fans to see how big an SSR you'll need. Rule of thumb is 3x to 4x the run current, so say the fans draw 15A each at top speed, you'd need either two 45A SSR's or one 90A minimum. If you want to go single-speed 2+1, the diagram I posted earlier would work fine with them. It's also possible to rig them dual speed with a series-parallel setup like the Rogue OE, but you need two switches, one at the "fans on" temperature and one at the "full speed" temperature.

Post by **mdmellott** » Sat Jul 23, 2022 2:37 pm

I've had this Flex-A-Lite model 295 in mind, saved in my browser bookmarks for more than two years now. It has dual 13-1/2 inch electric fans (not PWM), a full shroud, variable speed controller, and confirmed by the manufacturer to fit onto my Pathfinder. I'm itching to order it. Any thoughts, maybe someone here might have on this brand? https://flex-a-lite.com/all-product/dua ... oller.html

Since Derale was mentioned here, I searched a bit and found their model 66837 in a comparable configuration but with higher end PWM fans and controller. They pull quite a bit more current, so they might be more taxing on my alternator/regulator, and it would pull quite a bit more money out of wallet. The shroud would also need fabrication modification to the lower left corner to fit around a portion of my steering transfer gear. Doable but a bit of work. Any thought? https://derale.com/product-footer/elect ... 837-detail

Post by **VStar650CL** » Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:26 pm

Both of these are decent kits but with one huge no-no, they both use sensors that mount into the radiator fins. That's a cheap work-around to ease installation being used by many aftermarket manufacturers, but as I explained above, in case of a coolant flow loss, it's taking your engine's life in its hands. You're essentially guaranteed to lose the fans just when you need them to be running flat-out.

The Flex-a-Lite kit isn't true variable speed, it starts at 60% and ramps higher if 60% doesn't cut it. That's a work-around to allow them to use a "jumpstart" circuit rather than a huge FET capable of handling the startup load without help. Nothing wrong with that design-wise, just don't expect the full flexibility of a BLDC setup.

The Derale kit is the real deal if you leave out the radiator-fin sensor, but for $500 it ought to be. You can just about buy a brand new SPAL+ and the WM controller for the same money, and then you're using the engine's existing sensor and not relying on the radiator or doing a bunch of work-around plumbing.

Post by **mdmellott** » Sat Jul 23, 2022 4:57 pm

That's the reality check I needed for me to stop scratching that itch. I appreciate it. Back to noodling other options for now.

Post by **Mike W.** » Sat Jul 23, 2022 10:00 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Sat Jul 23, 2022 3:26 pm
Both of these are decent kits but with one huge no-no, they both use sensors that mount into the radiator fins. That's a cheap work-around to ease installation being used by many aftermarket manufacturers, but as I explained above, in case of a coolant flow loss, it's taking your engine's life in its hands. You're essentially guaranteed to lose the fans just when you need them to be running flat-out.

Interesting, I hadn't thought of that. You could mitigate it some by installing the sensor at a lower point, but often coolant loss is the problem not lack of airflow because of it. But for my purposes, hyper extreme conditions I'm concerned about overheating due to lack of airflow, either stopped in traffic or climbing a very steep hill at 7MPH. But really, for the condition you referenced to register you would need a more modern car, say that was built in the early 80s and had a low coolant level sensor.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Sun Jul 24, 2022 6:32 am

The main risk for loss of flow is a stuck 'stat or collapsed hose and not coolant loss. In that case a sensor anyplace on the cylinder heads or engine proper will keep the fans operating properly. A coolant level sensor is a nice addition, but fans won't help much if the coolant itself goes away.

Post by **PATHFINDER99NI** » Fri Aug 12, 2022 5:50 pm

Vstar,

After some more reading, I fount this post:
radiator-fan-t629359.html
Where you commented that the brushless fans make the AC fan obsolete. You say that they have a “AC mode” that cranks up the single fan high enough to compensate for the missing fan. I’d like to go this route for simplicity sake. Which fan would you recommend, and would I still need that PWM fan on eBay? Is there an OEM fan I can get, or do I have to go aftermarket?

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:28 pm

Yah, both the WM and Lingenfelter controllers have an A/C provision. The WM's is better, they have a "+50%" option for the Force-On signal which is a lot less annoying for use with a big, single fan (stuff like the GenV Chevy truck fans can literally blow and sound like a hurricane at full speed).

What fan to use is a matter of finding something that fits in the hole on your ride. If you want to go new, the customer service folks at SPAL are very helpful and their website gives pretty complete specs for all their PWM stuff. You'll undoubtedly have to tinker the shroud on anything you get, so if you go the JY route, take your tape measure. The most popular JY fans WM sees their customers use are Bimmers, 'Vette C7's, and Volvos, probably in that order.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Fri Aug 12, 2022 7:33 pm

PS - You can pretty much identify any PWM fan by the wiring. Two fat wires plus one or two skinny ones almost always means a PWM-able BLDC. Two or three wires which are all fat will always be a DC fan.

Post by **PATHFINDER99NI** » Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:17 am

I will be order the WM controller today. I’ll pay a visit to the JY and see if I can find any front wheel drive radiator fans. I figure FWD cars have to be extremely diligent on how they choose their fans seeing as they don’t have much room to work with, so that should work in my favor.

I’ll keep an eye out for that four pin connector.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:06 am

PATHFINDER99NI wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:17 am
I’ll keep an eye out for that four pin connector.

Three or four. The key is the wire sizes, two fat and one or two skinny is what you're looking for. If you get the VIN off the JY donor before you actually buy it, I can look the car up in Identifix for you and confirm whether it's PWM.

Post by **PATHFINDER99NI** » Sun Aug 14, 2022 1:48 pm

VStar650CL wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:06 am

PATHFINDER99NI wrote: ↑
Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:17 am
I’ll keep an eye out for that four pin connector.
Three or four. The key is the wire sizes, two fat and one or two skinny is what you're looking for. If you get the VIN off the JY donor before you actually buy it, I can look the car up in Identifix for you and confirm whether it's PWM.

Do you know what year they started using brushless motors? That would help narrow the already expansive field.

Post by **VStar650CL** » Sun Aug 14, 2022 4:43 pm

Late '90's, I think Lincolns were the first to use true BLDC's. There were a bunch of hybrid setups in the late '90's and early '00's too, Infiniti actually used some. They were DC fans but with an SSR box built onto them so they behaved like BLDC's. I think your best bet at the JY is probably the BMW section, Bimmers have used a ton of different BLDC's going way back. I know the E70's (X5), E82's (328i, et al) and E83's (X3) are all popular with the conversion crowd. Even though there aren't tons of Bimmers on the road, just about every one from the early '00's up has a BLDC. Volvo is the same thing, they used BLDC's in the XC's going all the way back to '04.

Any Electric Fan Setups Out There?

Any Electric Fan Setups Out There?

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