A Reason for suspension arms! and how to fit baller wheels properly...

[yokota180sx]

"If you add more camber at a super low height, the toe gets all jacked up, then when you fix the toe, the wheel position in the wheel well gets jacked up (caster).I mean, you CAN just fix the toe, but your handling might be a little weird in some instances than before."

Modified by RBbugBITme at 12:17 PM 12/26/2007

noyou cantbecuase hte wheel is moved so far back in the wheel well, it hits the bumper

so unless you have physically done it, shut the **** up.would you lik epictures?i hvae to redo my setup tomorrow since i had to put stock wheels back on to go to the land office, so i have to readjust everything back to extremes...i mean, i can hold your hand, nad show you if youd like...

[95_240]

What's VIP? Very Impotent pen15?!?!

[WidebodyZ]

Now I just said you're an idiot. I didn't specify that it was because you don't know your stuff. That would be name calling on an assumption because you haven't contributed anything technical to this thread and I don't know you. I included you as part of the idiot group because you came on here trying to defend the other "VIP" idiot and you actually stated under the technical suspension sub-forum that the people on this site are "general people" and you imply they can't or don't want to learn this stuff.Modified by RBbugBITme at 12:17 PM 12/26/2007

Calling me an idiot, but saying you don't know me makes no sense. If you don't know me and admit to not knowing me, how can you say I'm an idiot? Also, how do you expect me to respond with you CALLING me an idiot...you act as if you're surprised I responded the way I did. So once again, I ask...who's the idiot?

Since you say people are idiots because they are VIP enthusiasts. (you are quoted above) What, it makes us idiots for appreciating a style you do not? Do we state that your "style" presumably makes you an idiot? No, we don't and in fact we have created many cars set up to do exactly what you are preaching. Please..leave this thread...

[Nismo_Freak]

noyou cantbecuase hte wheel is moved so far back in the wheel well, it hits the bumper

so unless you have physically done it, shut the **** up.would you lik epictures?i hvae to redo my setup tomorrow since i had to put stock wheels back on to go to the land office, so i have to readjust everything back to extremes...i mean, i can hold your hand, nad show you if youd like...

The hell are both of you talking about. Adjusting the toe does not alter the centerline of the wheel fore / aft. Caster is independently adjusted. You would have to relocate the lower control arm, or dial in ALOT of negative or positive toe (no where near 0) to even see movement. The movement of the tire is very little in 0 - 2 degrees of normal articulation. If you are getting excessive toe in / out on bump then you need to adjust the forward rod to dial some of that out.

In the front the toe is dynamic. The amount the wheel moves fore and aft is function of camber, KPI, caster, and steering input. That's easily adjusted by dialing back the caster. We have power steering so just run as much caster as you can get. God knows the S-chassis needs all the front dynamic camber gain it can get.

[yokota180sx]

im talking aboutadding massive cambermakes HUGE changes in geometryits IMPOSSIBLE to fit a wheel, with a camber arm (not stock) maxed out, and a stock toe arm. or an aftermarket adjusted for stock, or near stock.

ugh**** thisim done.

[WidebodyZ]

The hell are both of you talking about. Adjusting the toe does not alter the centerline of the wheel fore / aft. Caster is independently adjusted. You would have to relocate the lower control arm, or dial in ALOT of negative or positive toe (no where near 0) to even see movement. The movement of the tire is very little in 0 - 2 degrees of normal articulation. If you are getting excessive toe in / out on bump then you need to adjust the forward rod to dial some of that out.

In the front the toe is dynamic. The amount the wheel moves fore and aft is function of camber, KPI, caster, and steering input. That's easily adjusted by dialing back the caster. We have power steering so just run as much caster as you can get. God knows the S-chassis needs all the front dynamic camber gain it can get.

In toe the difference between .5 and 2 degrees is massive. It would make the difference of potentially 10-15k miles of tire wear in a short amount of time. If that's not what you meant then you need to type so we can understand your gibberish better. By excessive lowering, toe in occurs and must be adjusted out so as not to kill tire wear. Toe kills tires, not camber. Camber only changes which portion of the tire will wear, toe changes the cross angle of the tire causing the tire to scrub which in turn kills the tires far quicker. Slight toe in is good for center lining a car (putting the car into a straight forward motion after breaking the tires limits of adhesion: ie drifting), but in daily driving we could care less. VIP is not a motor sport, it is an automotive enthusiasts style, we would like to have the look, but not at the cost of excessive tire replacements. So please, will you stop with all the max handling, racing characteristic crap? This thread isn't about that from what I gathered. Why are YOU guys still in here arguing about something that is OUTSIDE this thread?? Haha, man..get over yourselves.

[RBbugBITme]

noyou cantbecuase hte wheel is moved so far back in the wheel well, it hits the bumper

so unless you have physically done it, shut the **** up.would you lik epictures?i hvae to redo my setup tomorrow since i had to put stock wheels back on to go to the land office, so i have to readjust everything back to extremes...i mean, i can hold your hand, nad show you if youd like...

No you can't what? You don't even realize you just contradicted yourself because that is what I quoted from YOUR original post.

widebody, I told you you're an idiot for following this guy I don't need to know you to make that assumption.
Modified by RBbugBITme at 1:14 PM 12/27/2007

[92coupe]

[yokota180sx]

No you can't what? You don't even realize you just contradicted yourself because that is what I quoted from YOUR original post.

widebody, I told you you're an idiot for following this guy I don't need to know you to make that assumption.

Modified by RBbugBITme at 1:14 PM 12/27/2007

your a complete ****ing idiotgo back to massaging your go cart ego.adjusting camber, affects centerline. dumbass.

you can try and play coy, and be dumb, and we can go around all day.come to my world, and do the **** i do, fit the wheels i fit, on the first try, and then talk ****.

your little open car **** is easy. everyone has baseline settings they tune from. VIP is completely different.

[Red coupe]

Yokito you can make fun of him all you want but you do sound like a moron when you know nothing about FSAE and keep calling them go karts...

Even if it was go karts, shifter karts compete on just as serious a level as cars, and many drivers in open wheels series especially F1 come from karts.

However go karts don't even have suspension, and to be honest if you can't tell the difference between a go kart and a FSAE car you can't be that bright...

The main difference is that FSAE is an international engineering competition held by the society of automotive engineers, and backed by major manufacturers...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_SAE

It would also be a lot more convincing on your behalf if all your arguments for how much you know weren't "Come fit the wheels I fit"Who ****ing cares about being able to put wheels that don't fit well on a car? alignment is to adjust how the tire meets the road, not how your wheels look.

[WidebodyZ]

Red Coupe...if you couldn't see that as a joke then you need some assistance of your own. I was the one who originally called it a glorified go-cart...because that's exactly what it is. I do know what they are and know about the series. Yes there are many open wheel guys including F1 drivers who STILL race carts in the off season to keep sharp, this is no news flash. This thread isn't about FSAE or even F1...so please stop making references..all of you.

I'm surprised this thread hasn't been locked or that you guys haven't been contacted by the staff yet for undermining a thread. Shows how biased this forum is yet again. I keep telling Greg he needs to be careful about that crap, but people don't seem to listen.

[Slappy]

Im really sure whats going on around here , but all this "information" being thrown around is pretty basic stuff if your a true car/motorsports guy. Its somewhat hard for some people to try and follow directions about suspension setups if the information isnt coming from someone with years of experience. Theres only a few guys i take notes from on this site about topics like this , and all 3 of them have years of road racing experience. They have real knowledge about these things , not just BS that they read one time on a car forum , they are out there doing it. I might go as far as reading through all the BS e thug post and try and figure out whats going on and make another post.

As far as my "slip up" , i was referring to people who buy every suspension piece on the market and think they have a race car while leaving all the old bushings intact that only a master set can replace , whether it be RS*R , Energy Suspension ect. I know that new peices come with thier own bushings.

What the main problem is today is to many kids want to lower thier car as much as possible and throw the biggest wheels with the most camber as possible. Its a new "fashion" trend , except its cars and not clothes. What they fail to realize it all the negative affects that has on thier suspension. They need to learn about Scrub Radius , what happends when thier control arms are pointing skyward ect.

[Nismo_Freak]

In toe the difference between .5 and 2 degrees is massive. It would make the difference of potentially 10-15k miles of tire wear in a short amount of time. If that's not what you meant then you need to type so we can understand your gibberish better.

Gibberish? LOL. Far from it. It just seems like you can't understand what I am referring to in the first place. At no point did I reference toe being ideal or not. What I was talking about is the front and rear caster.

Did you read what Yakota posted before telling me something I already know? Ie. "becuase hte wheel is moved so far back in the wheel well, it hits the bumper".

I know what toe does, probably more than anyone in this thread. Thanks for the elementary refresher course.

[skydragoness]

[ArticDragon192]

What the main problem is today is to many kids want to lower thier car as much as possible and throw the biggest wheels with the most camber as possible. Its a new "fashion" trend , except its cars and not clothes. What they fail to realize it all the negative affects that has on thier suspension. They need to learn about Scrub Radius , what happends when thier control arms are pointing skyward ect.

Some people just don't care. They know and willing accept the negative effects. My car is excessively lowered and running massive amount of camber. Do i know it'll negatively effect my handling? Yes, I'd be a complete idiot and ignorant to say my car is a handling god. Do I care? No, because at the end of the day, I've fit 17*10 +15s all around on a stock bodied Z which looks pretty badass. Is it fun to drive, hell yes. Is it the best handling car out there? Hell no, but that doesn't matter to me, and nor does it matter to many.

[Slappy]

Some people just don't care. They know and willing accept the negative effects. My car is excessively lowered and running massive amount of camber. Do i know it'll negatively effect my handling? Yes, I'd be a complete idiot and ignorant to say my car is a handling god. Do I care? No, because at the end of the day, I've fit 17*10 +15s all around on a stock bodied Z which looks pretty badass. Is it fun to drive, hell yes. Is it the best handling car out there? Hell no, but that doesn't matter to me, and nor does it matter to many.

Thats fine and i understand. But i dont like when those people that "dont care" try and give information and advice on what they "dont care" about , or make fun of guys like me that "do care" , just because my car isnt 1" off the ground tuckin 18's and JDM fabulous.

[WidebodyZ]

I know what toe does, probably more than anyone in this thread. Thanks for the elementary refresher course.

Really? You are AWESOME..you win the prize. (no need to insert the pic because I guarantee you've witnessed it before) And no, no, thank YOU for more laughs..that went over your head too. Instead of thinking so literally try thinking outside the box..you might like it. You see neither of you know me...therefore neither of you may judge me or my intelligence. My wit is obviously over your head, and rightly so, since yours are selectively up each others arses and therefore literally "over" your heads. Get it? No??...oh well, on with the chlorophyll.

Are we having fun yet? I mean, this thread is only about how a few selective members think they are elitist speedracer suspension geometry gurus...right?

[yokota180sx]

Gibberish? LOL. Far from it. It just seems like you can't understand what I am referring to in the first place. At no point did I reference toe being ideal or not. What I was talking about is the front and rear caster.

Did you read what Yakota posted before telling me something I already know? Ie. "becuase hte wheel is moved so far back in the wheel well, it hits the bumper".

I know what toe does, probably more than anyone in this thread. Thanks for the elementary refresher course.

actually it was the amount of camber, created, combined with the stock traction rod.....smart guy

[Nismo_Freak]

actually it was the amount of camber, created, combined with the stock traction rod.....smart guy

Right, I had about 4.2 degs. of negative camber on my rear when I went to align the car. That's on a 26" tire that was no where near my bumper.

This ****ing thread is a waste of time.

[Nismo_Freak]

Really? You are AWESOME..you win the prize. (no need to insert the pic because I guarantee you've witnessed it before) And no, no, thank YOU for more laughs..that went over your head too. Instead of thinking so literally try thinking outside the box..you might like it. You see neither of you know me...therefore neither of you may judge me or my intelligence. My wit is obviously over your head, and rightly so, since yours are selectively up each others arses and therefore literally "over" your heads. Get it? No??...oh well, on with the chlorophyll.

Are we having fun yet? I mean, this thread is only about how a few selective members think they are elitist speedracer suspension geometry gurus...right?

I didn't start the pen15 measuring chief. You might want to readdress some of your posts as well as your man-slave Yakota's.

[DJButton]

Geesh this thread clearly ran it's course 25 posts ago... We should probably keep a "Race Suspension Set-up Thread" and a "Baller, Actually Looks Good Thread" bumped at all times in this forum to teach them newbs the multiple ways in which to rock a 240essexxx. *Sarcasm intended, this thread has more drama then a high school*

[Slappy]

We should probably keep a "Race Suspension Set-up Thread"

Not a good idea. You would still have people that dont know **** , posting up false claims and then starting arguments with other people that dont know ****. More or less , thats what car forums are about these days.

[DJButton]

Not a good idea. You would still have people that dont know **** , posting up false claims and then starting arguments with other people that dont know ****. More or less , thats what car forums are about these days.

Touche... ahh for the good old days. lol

[yokota180sx]

Right, I had about 4.2 degs. of negative camber on my rear when I went to align the car. That's on a 26" tire that was no where near my bumper.

This ****ing thread is a waste of time.

when your running this much camber at full drop, you can say ****until then, stfu

its around -15* at driving heightand mayb -25 or so at full drop.i did it ghetto style with a protractor, flat surface, and a long ruler.

[RBbugBITme]

wow, is there a "VIP" forum you guys could go moderate or something? I can't say that your style is to popular around here or any forum I've ever been on.

-15 degrees at ride height...... haha /thread

[yokota180sx]

its not to popular, becuase broke *** 240 owners for the most part cant afford to do itl

youd be surprised with how many emails i get a day asking **** about my car

[Slappy]

Nothing agaist you Yokota180sx , theres a ton of people i know that do have the money , and they wouldnt want anything to do with 8 degrees of camber and scraping their car on the ground. I'll just leave it at this , i dont know nothing about your "scence" , so theres no point in me posting in this thread. So , im out.

[yokota180sx]

i dont scrape the gound

its only becuase hte bandwagon hasnt fully hitonce it does, they will.

[Slappy]

i dont scrape the gound

its only becuase hte bandwagon hasnt fully hitonce it does, they will.

I said i wouldnt post in this thread but dammit....

Theres a rather large group of us that Drift , Auto X and even NASA. We're all between the ages of 24-39. We have no interest in parts/settings that have no function. What your saying sounds like the gay guy that thinks just because he preaches being gay is great , everyone should be gay. When that "scene" your into does become big (i guess its VIP?) none of us are are going to pay it any mind because its not what we are about. Im not putting you or what your into down , i just dont like you saying once this scene hits , we're gonna jump on its c@ck , its just not gonna happen. I seen a few VIP cars in a couple of magazine and they look ok , but to me it seems to be more of an auto fashion / status thing where even the tiniest thing like a Junction Produce Fusa bumps up your cool factor. I could be wrong , but you get my point.

[Veriest1]