A Reason for suspension arms! and how to fit baller wheels properly...

[yokota180sx]

why do i need luck

there wasnt any followup

it was a statement of facts that the nissan suspension does

so STFU, or contribute to it. i see no reason for your animosity in this post...others maybe. but not this one

[RBbugBITme]

I am contributing. I've shown, through your own words, that you have no real racing experience and everything you say beyond the obvious google search is bull****.

Anyone and their mother can sit on the interwebbernets and read what a lower control arm or a tension rod blah blah blah can do... you're contributing nothing. Have a good day, raising your car whenever you see a pothole.

[yokota180sx]

man, you have no clue what i know, bring your *** to japan, and let me show you my knowledge. ive built more cars int eh last year and a half than most people have in their life up to 22.

dont try and pull the you dont know **** card. regardless, i dont have to prove anything to you reallly.

[WidebodyZ]

You guys really have no life do you? All I see is a bunch of kids who can't wait to try to prove someone wrong, but never seem to take the initiative to make a resonable thread of their own....why is that?

[RBbugBITme]

Probably has to do with the fact that I know my audience. Posting about the technical aspects of vehicle dynamics will go right over the head of 99% of the people on this forum, including yoko. The people who do understand go elsewhere to talk about it, where there are other people that know what they're talking about. Go sit on this forum for a bit and see if you can follow what some of the design threads are talking about. http://p081.ezboard.com/bdsrforumYou're right though, I have no life. Its spent in a dirty lab leading a team for 16 hours a day over xmas break building this.

Thats called a race car and I am not a post whore repeating easily found information about the purpose of a RUCA or tension rods.

[Red coupe]

You guys really have no life do you? All I see is a bunch of kids who can't wait to try to prove someone wrong, but never seem to take the initiative to make a resonable thread of their own....why is that?

Well, I for one don't make a thread of my own because I know enough to know I shouldn't be the one teaching people when I am still a student myself.

A lot of people read these forums and take advice from people who know (or sound like the know) more as fact. Just because your willing to miss inform people doesn't mean your doing more for the community...If anything is more of a service to let people learn from real sources instead of trying to play teacher on a subject that you yourself are shaky at best about.

[WidebodyZ]

Its spent in a dirty lab leading a team for 16 hours a day over xmas break building this.

Thats called a race car

That's a race car? It looks like a glorified go-cart to me. So I can post pics of my old carts and say they are race cars too? I mean, hey, it's cool to have a hobby..or a starting point..and I don't mean disrespect..but that's not exactly a "race car". I mean yes, it is car like...and will be in races I assume....but so have many of my cars and other "vehicles". I raced cars, motorcycles, carts, boats (weekend style, not professional by any means)...but you don't see me here bantering other people by posting pics of my crafts and trying to make people respect me or listen to me rather than someone else. I'm glad you're happy with your project...and I hope it does well for whomever drives it..but please. Don't post a pic of something like that and a forum link and expect everyone to be like "damn, he's the man!"...it just won't happen.

Do you really think you're the only one here with any knowledge on design and fabrication?? Are you really that bold and brazen? Think about it, don't just be a prick for the sake of...well, being a prick. That's the way it came off...

Read his post again..he didn't say he was an expert...he didn't say there were no other sources...he was trying to help people. Not everyone is into the style he's speaking of..obviously you aren't so don't respond since you truly don't understand why he's doing it. It was basic information that obviously some members didn't know. Not all suspension arms are used for racing purposes. So please..next time you want to bash someone for something trivial...go to that "other" forum and do it there...I did say please.

[RBbugBITme]

I'm not even going to bother explaining the efforts that go into those "go carts" since you clearly have no clue what it is or what the competition is about. Red coupe said it best and my point has been made so I'll leave it at that.

[Red coupe]

That's a race car? It looks like a glorified go-cart to me. So I can post pics of my old carts and say they are race cars too? I mean, hey, it's cool to have a hobby..or a starting point..and I don't mean disrespect..but that's not exactly a "race car". I mean yes, it is car like...and will be in races I assume....but so have many of my cars and other "vehicles". I raced cars, motorcycles, carts, boats (weekend style, not professional by any means)...but you don't see me here bantering other people by posting pics of my crafts and trying to make people respect me or listen to me rather than someone else. I'm glad you'reeveryone to be like "damn, he's the man!"...it just won't happen.

Do you really think you're the only one here with any knowledge on design and fabrication?? Are you really that bold and brazen? Think about it, don't just be a prick for the sake of...well, being a prick. That's the way it came off...

Read his post again..he didn't say he was an expert...he didn't say there were no other sources...he was trying to help people. Not everyone is into the style he's speaking of..obviously you aren't so don't respond since you truly don't understand why he's doing it. It was basic information that obviously some members didn't know. Not all suspension arms are used for racing purposes. So please..next time you want to bash someone for something trivial...go to that "other" forum and do it there...I did say please.

TBH if you designed a go kart from the ground up that is competitive on the level of the FSAE cars I would LOVE to hear it...
Modified by Red coupe at 7:32 PM 12/22/2007

[yokota180sx]

i took a 50cc 4 wheeler on the touge

oh yeahbut mine is wayyyyy cooler

if your retarded enough, to come in and hate on ana rticle, explaining to people who have NO CLUE what this **** is, then go for itits not for you, its not for me, its for hte newbs.

[Nismo_Freak]

I'm not even going to bother explaining the efforts that go into those "go carts" since you clearly have no clue what it is or what the competition is about. Red coupe said it best and my point has been made so I'll leave it at that.

Don't worry man. At the end of the day these idiots will still be clueless no matter how much they want to lie to themselves. There's more engineering time put into the under body flow on that FSAE car than ever entered the mind of everyone of these wanna-be suspension gurus.

Someday they might learn that their entire setup is prohibitive to real handling performance for the sake of being cool on the internet with un-aero body kits, huge scrub radius, **** load capacity, and completely ****ED dynamic geometry.

[95_240]

Thread Summary.

My dad can beat up your dad.

[yokota180sx]

no dudethread summary

my gocart > your gocart

[WidebodyZ]

Don't worry man. At the end of the day these idiots will still be clueless no matter how much they want to lie to themselves. There's more engineering time put into the under body flow on that FSAE car than ever entered the mind of everyone of these wanna-be suspension gurus.

Someday they might learn that their entire setup is prohibitive to real handling performance for the sake of being cool on the internet with un-aero body kits, huge scrub radius, **** load capacity, and completely ****ED dynamic geometry.

Someday you might learn to read. We are talking about alignment for extreme wheel fitment and camber angle (ie: as seen on VIP cars)...not race cars (I even posted it...wait, let me quote myself for fun!

Not all suspension arms are used for racing purposes

OH SNAP..go to racecarsaretehshizzle.com for that..not this thread. Who's the real idiot?

Nismo Freak with a KA24E?

[Nismo_Freak]

Someday you might learn to read. We are talking about alignment for extreme wheel fitment and camber angle (ie: as seen on VIP cars)...not race cars (I even posted it...wait, let me quote myself for fun!

Sure, you might be, but the thread starter changed his story. He likes to talk about how well his car handles, and my point is his perceived handling prowess is nothing to go on about. Perhaps if he actually knew what he was doing he'd be able to build a car that could give him a benchmark for handling ability. Just because you can slap a bunch of expensive parts on your car doesn't give you the ability to actually make something of it.

By "these idiots" I'm referring to the so-called suspension gurus that think because they tear up their local drift scene, or by virtue of owning the parts, they are now some kind of suspension afficianado.

OH SNAP..go to racecarsaretehshizzle.com for that..not this thread. Who's the real idiot?

I forgot that the 240SX community doesn't give a **** about actual performance any more. It's a giant pen15 measuring contest with who can ghetto rig the biggest Mexican fitment possible on their car and still be able to drive down the street. Why don't you just buy trucks? You'd fit right in with that crowd.

I don't even own a complete 240 any more. I just drive my M3.

[RBbugBITme]

I'm still waiting to see anything a newb can walk away from this "article" with. You lower your car and your geometry gets "jacked up." Really, thats new news! You change your camber and your toe changes? Really! If they're really that newbish they wouldn't even know how to change their camber or make the measurements themselves like you do. Why don't you start there, you've taught newbs nothing.

[92coupe]

[RBbugBITme]

I agree this is retarded.I declare victory./thread

[WidebodyZ]

I declare victory./thread

No, not the end of the thread...but nice to think you're so special. Victory over what? You're the only one playing anything. I thought this was a forum..not a game...so go on with your bad self. You deserve it champ!

[DJButton]

Wow, this thread really sucks now, thanks everyone.

[RBbugBITme]

That is what a joke looks like... way to take it for more than it was!

[yokota180sx]

I'm still waiting to see anything a newb can walk away from this "article" with. You lower your car and your geometry gets "jacked up." Really, thats new news! You change your camber and your toe changes? Really! If they're really that newbish they wouldn't even know how to change their camber or make the measurements themselves like you do. Why don't you start there, you've taught newbs nothing.

you do realize people just throw springs on their car and never realize what it does.your a ****ing idiot. read this ****ing forum and tell me people are competent enough to make their own adjustments adn do their own half *** even alignment.

im done here, you need to get your head out of your ***, and realize what nico is.

[WidebodyZ]

That is what a joke looks like... way to take it for more than it was!

So I take it you're speaking to yourself...because that just went over your head..hahahahaha!!!

Anyhow. What Grant said is accurate..not everyone understands what you majestic racers of power do. They haven't the first clue. So giving things to them in baby steps helps. Try throwing down some mumbo jumbo and see how many of them understand it. It's not that anyone is trying to belittle anyone else..but giving it to them in a language they will easily understand is important. You can stay on your other forum and stroke each others suspension geometry all you wish, but this is a general crowd here...not a bunch of seasoned suspension veterans...so learn to go with the flow..or GTFO.

[skydragoness]

It's not that anyone is trying to belittle anyone else..but giving it to them in a language they will easily understand is important. You can stay on your other forum and stroke each others suspension geometry all you wish, but this is a general crowd here...not a bunch of seasoned suspension veterans...so learn to go with the flow..or GTFO.

This forum actually used to be very useful. Exar-kun, NismoFreak, and SRSmith used to keep a heavy presence in this forum. Dumb-*** question threads were locked, and there wasn't any of this "omg, those wheels aren't flush enough and your'e not low enough" sh*t" un-informed comments going around. I used to post a lot in this forum but now if i have questions about altering my setup or reviews of my own, I just email Exarkun directly for advice or I ask questions on my local SCCA forum because no one here does anything but parking-lot drift and slam their cars.

RBbugBITme: Are you a member of the Philly SCCA chapter? I know someone w/ a 240sx just recently joined the forum. Just wondering if you are the same person.

[Slappy]

Im not gonna read the entire post , but i will throw in that all those fancy suspension pieces wont work to thier full potential if you dont replace the 15+ year old dry rotted rubber bushings.

[RBbugBITme]

skydragon, I haven't yet autoxed my car but I am a member due to Formula SAE because we try to autox the go-cart as much as possible. I doubt I am the member you are thinking of though.

Kind of 100% correct slappy. The real fancy pieces remove the rubber/urethane bushings all together but that's besides the point, I'm anticipating the full Energy Suspension kit and solid aluminum subframe mounts I'm almost done installing to totally change my car. They're in really bad shape!

yoko and widebody, this might be one of the dumbest arguments I've sustained for too long with an idiot. So instead of going back and forth with you two I've already started to create an "article" myself since neither of you are capable of fixing this one and I would just be a jackass for complaining so much and not just doing it myself. Feel free to pick it apart as best you can however I get the feeling you might actually learn something from it.

[Red coupe]

nice, will give it a read once its done

[yokota180sx]

skydragon, I haven't yet autoxed my car but I am a member due to Formula SAE because we try to autox the go-cart as much as possible. I doubt I am the member you are thinking of though.

Kind of 100% correct slappy. The real fancy pieces remove the rubber/urethane bushings all together but that's besides the point, I'm anticipating the full Energy Suspension kit and solid aluminum subframe mounts I'm almost done installing to totally change my car. They're in really bad shape!

yoko and widebody, this might be one of the dumbest arguments I've sustained for too long with an idiot. So instead of going back and forth with you two I've already started to create an "article" myself since neither of you are capable of fixing this one and I would just be a jackass for complaining so much and not just doing it myself. Feel free to pick it apart as best you can however I get the feeling you might actually learn something from it.

naheverything youve done i prolly have as wellyour ES suspension kit nad diff subframe bushings

yeah im a step aheadmy 180 had solid aluminum subframe bushingsSolid diff mountsES sway bar ends, and all adjustable rods.oh yeah, and solid engine and transmission mount

but its ok, im having fun with you. dont leave. i dont have any friends.

[WidebodyZ]

The real fancy pieces remove the rubber/urethane bushings all together but that's besides the point, I'm anticipating the full Energy Suspension kit and solid aluminum subframe mounts I'm almost done installing to totally change my car. They're in really bad shape!

yoko and widebody, this might be one of the dumbest arguments I've sustained for too long with an idiot. So instead of going back and forth with you two I've already started to create an "article" myself since neither of you are capable of fixing this one and I would just be a jackass for complaining so much and not just doing it myself. Feel free to pick it apart as best you can however I get the feeling you might actually learn something from it.

Just for arguments sake..you made me realize you must know less than I expected you'd know. All of the aftermarket suspension goodies I've bought within the last almost 10 years replace the entire stock unit..not just the bushings. So nothing new there at all. I mean, the last time I replaced only the bushings is when a race series required that as the limitation besides coilovers that reside in the stock location utilizing the stock upper mount configuration. (Sport Compact Racing Series..and I was the only S13 in a field full of civics/integras back in 1998-1999) Solid subframe bushings were also the norm on most of my cars (minus my luxury cars). You speak as if I have no idea of any of this or of suspension geometry...again I'm the idiot somehow? Keep patting yourself on the back, you're good at it...

As far as your article...that's nice, nothing that can't be looked at in most Borders:

Pretty good book and not too hard to understand for those who have minimal experience. I honestly won't even visit your thread since I have no desire too. It's not that I think I know it all, it's just that I've read books by people who I am sure know far more than you and that you will most likely be borrowing from anyhow. I don't doubt you have knowledge...I just prefer books prepared by people who've been doing this for a living, not a hobby. No offense...and Happy Holidays.

[RBbugBITme]

What are you talking about? Slappy mentioned fancy suspension pieces. I took that to mean the adjustable parts mentioned in the original post, meaning adjustable control arms etc.. Then he said they won't do anything unless you replace the old bushings which I assumed was a simple slip up BECAUSE fancy adjustable parts (ie. spl adjustable stuff) come with spherical bearings so you don't need to replace most of the bushings. Then my next comment about my current install in progress was to support his, my old bushings are shot and my car will feel 10x better when I'm done putting in my urethane stuff. Sweet lord I think you post sometimes just to get that number up.

Now I just said you're an idiot. I didn't specify that it was because you don't know your stuff. That would be name calling on an assumption because you haven't contributed anything technical to this thread and I don't know you. I included you as part of the idiot group because you came on here trying to defend the other "VIP" idiot and you actually stated under the technical suspension sub-forum that the people on this site are "general people" and you imply they can't or don't want to learn this stuff. Oh and you also mentioned giving it to them in a language they understand. OK, what is this teaching anyone?

"If you add more camber at a super low height, the toe gets all jacked up, then when you fix the toe, the wheel position in the wheel well gets jacked up (caster).I mean, you CAN just fix the toe, but your handling might be a little weird in some instances than before."

So a newb can walk away from that understanding what? One thing affects the other. Anything else? Not really, pretty useless information if he's just going to stop his explanation there.

You don't want to read and contribute to my thread, fine. Most of the time people (inexperienced and experienced) learn more from an engaging conversation but if you don't want to contribute... nothing new I guess. I am by no means a guru and don't claim to be. I do however feel I can contribute to this topic far better than what is in this thread currently but it won't really be a great article without other knowlegdable contributors. Hell, I could just be making stuff up! Oh, and if all of this stuff can be found in Border's (I know it can), why was this thread ever started? I hope everyone got fun new toys for XMAS!
Modified by RBbugBITme at 12:17 PM 12/26/2007