300zx vx 240sx
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krazy skwerel
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1992Q45A wrote:The "bean counters" arent the only reason to use other engine configurations. Weight distribution, and fitment are other issues to consider.
Yep. The RB excels over the VG in all these areas.
Well good sir I never said the RB specifically. You made a very generalized statement about V6 engines and I disagreed and gave other reasons.
I have driven 240's and Z32's and Z31's...
I personally prefer the Z32. Obviously, I own one. What alot of people forget is the Z32 wasn't designed during the Japanese super car bubble, the Z32 started it. The Z32TT was available in early 90. Please show me a comparable sports car from the 90 or 91 or 92 model year. The only car out there is the R32 which is a sister car to the Z.
BTW: Any of you "RB's Are The Best" people want to tell me what Nismo uses in their JGTC championship winning Skyline GTR?
Which one is better? Depends on the driver and the track. At comparable levels of mod they are actually similar in stats. Stock to stock the Z will win. Simply, it get more of the goodies out of the showroom.
The 240 is light and nible but underpowered. In stock form it can even be a little unnerving when pushed hard. Modified it can become a weapon but, if a Z can keep close in the corners it can probably pass on the straight.
The Z may be heavy compared to a 240 but not to other cars in it's class (SCCA World challenge winning CTS-V's weigh in @ 3200lbs with around 500-600HP). The Z's Power delivery is very smooth and strong without being peaky. Even in the world of racing, when you get into the high power cars the chassis weight has to go up in order to hold the power.
The Z is not especially more expensive to modify than other cars. Any high end car takes a lot of paychecks to make big HP. The Z can be more difficult than some but not for a competent tech. Z's were built very strong from the factory expecting a certain number of privateer racers and they still do very well in competition.
BTW: Any of you "RB's Are The Best" people want to tell me what Nismo uses in their JGTC championship winning Skyline GTR?
Which one is better? Depends on the driver and the track. At comparable levels of mod they are actually similar in stats. Stock to stock the Z will win. Simply, it get more of the goodies out of the showroom.
The 240 is light and nible but underpowered. In stock form it can even be a little unnerving when pushed hard. Modified it can become a weapon but, if a Z can keep close in the corners it can probably pass on the straight.
The Z may be heavy compared to a 240 but not to other cars in it's class (SCCA World challenge winning CTS-V's weigh in @ 3200lbs with around 500-600HP). The Z's Power delivery is very smooth and strong without being peaky. Even in the world of racing, when you get into the high power cars the chassis weight has to go up in order to hold the power.
The Z is not especially more expensive to modify than other cars. Any high end car takes a lot of paychecks to make big HP. The Z can be more difficult than some but not for a competent tech. Z's were built very strong from the factory expecting a certain number of privateer racers and they still do very well in competition.
The supra was ruined by their spitefull owners.. I hung out with the AZ supra guys a few times (these guys were considered the worst) They were involved with RWHP wars with the cali/texas guys.. I saw this guy put down 1000 crank HP on a stock suspension.. He nearly lost it on the drag strip into a wall.. it was ridiculous.. he just did it do it.. Other people were taking 2nd mortgages on their houses to keep up.. I don't know if it's that bad anymore, but back in 2000 it sure was.. It's probably calmed down a bit, since all the big gains have been had..
I loved the supra as an all around vehicle.. forget the RWHP/accelration numbers
The skidpad/slalom/braking performance of the vehicle could hardly be matched by anything this side of an exotic..
Don't forget who the supra has to thank for it's performance. THE 300ZX.. It's true.. Toyota had a supra worked out right about the time the zx came out, then when they saw the ZX and what it was capable of, they completely scrapped it, and when back to the drawing board... That says alot about the Z
90s JDM sports cars, were so awesome.. I miss them so.. The Z, the RX7, the supra, they could have been made into even better modern cars..
For a measely $100 dollars (greddy boost cut controller) and about 1 hour of your time, you had a high 12 second supra with 110 trap speeds.. another great thing about the car, you could reroute some hoses, and run full boost.
For about $1,500 you could get the ubiqutous bpu package, and run mid to lower 12s at 115+..
It was also just flat out a nice car to drive.. the sc400/supra were built on the same chasis, and the supra had the nice lux drive when you wern't trying to pull the .99g the car was capable of stock..
I sold mine basically because I was stupid
I'll probably never own one again, because they are so expensive now.. My car would be worth at least what I paid for it, and I could have doubled/tripled/quadrupled the mileage on it..
Supra was essentially a 400-450 hp car from the factory. Probably one of if not the most over engineered cars from the factory. IT's trendy and obnoxious now, but that shouldn't detract from it's amazing performance.. The numbers even to this day are still rarely seen for the price..
I want a rx7, but I fear the grenading wankel
I loved the supra as an all around vehicle.. forget the RWHP/accelration numbers
The skidpad/slalom/braking performance of the vehicle could hardly be matched by anything this side of an exotic..
Don't forget who the supra has to thank for it's performance. THE 300ZX.. It's true.. Toyota had a supra worked out right about the time the zx came out, then when they saw the ZX and what it was capable of, they completely scrapped it, and when back to the drawing board... That says alot about the Z
90s JDM sports cars, were so awesome.. I miss them so.. The Z, the RX7, the supra, they could have been made into even better modern cars..
For a measely $100 dollars (greddy boost cut controller) and about 1 hour of your time, you had a high 12 second supra with 110 trap speeds.. another great thing about the car, you could reroute some hoses, and run full boost.
For about $1,500 you could get the ubiqutous bpu package, and run mid to lower 12s at 115+..
It was also just flat out a nice car to drive.. the sc400/supra were built on the same chasis, and the supra had the nice lux drive when you wern't trying to pull the .99g the car was capable of stock..
I sold mine basically because I was stupid
I'll probably never own one again, because they are so expensive now.. My car would be worth at least what I paid for it, and I could have doubled/tripled/quadrupled the mileage on it..Supra was essentially a 400-450 hp car from the factory. Probably one of if not the most over engineered cars from the factory. IT's trendy and obnoxious now, but that shouldn't detract from it's amazing performance.. The numbers even to this day are still rarely seen for the price..
I want a rx7, but I fear the grenading wankel
Goose,
Very valid points. The CTS V is flat out the most amazing car to come from America in a long long time.. It's track PROVEN performance validates that statement. It's pummeling the TT Audis, the porsches, the BMWS, the C5s.. When they say the suspension was designed and tested on the nurburgring, you can believe it. They hit it out of the park with that one.
Anyone who thinks the Z isn't a capable track car, tell that to steve millen who won't multiple championships, including his class in LE MANS, that. I think he will beg to differ
Very valid points. The CTS V is flat out the most amazing car to come from America in a long long time.. It's track PROVEN performance validates that statement. It's pummeling the TT Audis, the porsches, the BMWS, the C5s.. When they say the suspension was designed and tested on the nurburgring, you can believe it. They hit it out of the park with that one.
Anyone who thinks the Z isn't a capable track car, tell that to steve millen who won't multiple championships, including his class in LE MANS, that. I think he will beg to differ
krazy skwerel wrote:Well good sir I never said the RB specifically. You made a very generalized statement about V6 engines and I disagreed and gave other reasons.
Well, that's great and all.. I am disagreeing. Money be damned, let's see how many V configurations would win over an inline type. GM has gone back to inlines... unfortunately the next GTR is dropping the inline config.. OH well a cosworth tuned special VQ is fine with me
The Z one upped everything by such a wide margin. Toyota did the same.. Just look at your Z though.. I was really way to young to understand how much of a styling accomplishment this vehicle was.. Not just style but performance, and everything else..
I imagine it was like when I saw my first third gen RX7... Long live the 90s
I imagine it was like when I saw my first third gen RX7... Long live the 90s
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tnkrstoyco
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Goose that's a nice Z, you going to the regional meet in Sept in KC? Check the link at http://www.bransonzfest.com for details. Same people are sponzering it as did Branson the last 2 years. A few from Z-CAAR are going, we're in NW Arkansas. My 300 vert will be out of the shop by the 1st of July. The 240 and the 300 are stock and I don't race they are both great cars as far as I'm concerned. May do a little to the 240 after getting the 300 finished. We're adding the 99' front fascia and 99' tails and center and 99' HID's to it and bringing it back to exact stock Cherry Red Pearl paint. Some one said the 300 is nose heavy, it is for a fact it is hard on the front springs because of the weight. Myself I think the 300 Z32 was a design for the future and with all the upgrades that are out there the design will never die. I ordered the 95' 240sx in Aug of 94' at the time I kind of thought it looked like a Baby Z, still do.
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flohtingPoint
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scruffy63 wrote:i know all that matters but I'm only talkin about cornering abilities.so lets say sr20det stock n/a z32.I believe these would be close in hp and torque.
Why does the 240SX get a motor swap and the Z32 only gets the na VG30? If you're talking about a 240SX, then you should really gauge it off what the majority of people have, either the KA24E or DE.
Stock vs stock, even a NA Z32 would crush a 240SX. Overall, 240SX's are garbage. Nissan castrated these S-series chassis models when they were sent to us, and left us with a decent looking shell, but a sub-average sports coupe. I'm sure the JDM tyte uber wannabe drifters would say otherwise, but with my experience of owning two 240SX's, and driving on both the KA24E and DE, and later making swaps in both, its easy for me to say that when the cars were stock they were not worth the driveway space they allocated.
yes I realize most people have the ka, but since the sr20det came stock in the car in japan and b/c of hp difference this makes the hp very close. I know the na 300zx has around 200 hp stock the 240 has a tiny bit more (202-205) but it also has a small amount of lag. I just wanted to know about the cars conering abilities. I already know the 300 will kill the 240 in speed without major modifications.
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flohtingPoint
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Sircnay wrote:The best import sports cars came from the 90's... what happened to all of them?
Toyota brought out the Supra and the MR2Nissan had the Z32Mazda had their RX-7Honda even had the ITR
I know! And what do we have now?
MR2(weak) and Supra concept(Ugly)350 Z(Closest to its older sibling than the others)RX-8(Looks good, but is a big disappointment)RSX A Spec(An OK car)
These guys just took a huge step backwards.
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Bubba1
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Sircnay wrote:The best import sports cars came from the 90's... what happened to all of them?
Toyota brought out the Supra and the MR2Nissan had the Z32Mazda had their RX-7Honda even had the ITR
I gotta disagree with your choice of your decades for best imported cars. The 90's were not the best decade for sports cars.Think about the cars you listed.
The Supra began in the 70's as a 6 cyl version of the Celica GT. Nissan (Datsun at the time) took the market by storm with the awesome 1970 240Z. I believe the RX-7 made it's huge impression in the 80's. Honda's biggest contributions came later. NSX and S2000. The prelude was as much a sports car as the 240sx, which is to say not a sports car..
You could make a stronger case for the best imported sports cars being from the 60's and early 70's.Think about it. Jag E type, Porsche 911, Ferrari GTO, 275GTB4, Daytona, Chevy Corvette (60's vettes that is), Shelby Cobra. You want Japanese, there's the Toyota 2000GT, Datsun 240Z.
Of course the 50's have a lotta amazing sports cars too.300SL, Ferrari 250GT, Jag XK120-140-150 + D-type, Allard, I could go on and on.
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Bubba1
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I think this decade has a more promising start than the 90's
Nissan 350Z (true to its roots)Subaru Sti: street legal rally carMistu Evo: another street legal monsterHonda: S2000 an awesome sports carMazda: though the Rx-8 is kinda disappointing to me, the updated Miata is a wonderful sports car.Corvette:Z06 is already amazing, the next generation will be evenmore amazing.Porsche - GT3 is essentially a race car with air conditioningFerrari Enzo. About as close to a street legal F1 machine as you can get. I could go on here too.
Nissan 350Z (true to its roots)Subaru Sti: street legal rally carMistu Evo: another street legal monsterHonda: S2000 an awesome sports carMazda: though the Rx-8 is kinda disappointing to me, the updated Miata is a wonderful sports car.Corvette:Z06 is already amazing, the next generation will be evenmore amazing.Porsche - GT3 is essentially a race car with air conditioningFerrari Enzo. About as close to a street legal F1 machine as you can get. I could go on here too.
Getting back to the topic at hand...
I made the comparison between the non turbo Silvias like the KA (and the SR in Japan) and the non turbo Z while comparing the Z32TT to the turbo variants of the s-class cars.
Handling truely comes down to driver. The Z is an incredible car in the corners and carries it's weight very well. Even with out the hicas. I have been able to follow quite a few 240's through corners (to their surprise).
A majority of 240 owners have this belief that the Z was a lesser model for Nissan. They often tell me how the 240/silvia is the little brother to the GTR and how their lighter weight and balance makes them a superior handling car. I also hear the stories of the GTR super cars and yada, yada, yada.
Stock to stock, a 240 has a very hard time keeping with a Z. When you start to talk about modified versions of either the only piece of the equation you have to remember is the Z had a better starting point on the totem pole. And don't forget Z' get lighter as you modify them. A Street legal Z may never weigh less than a 240, but most Z owners like there luxuries (that's why they bought a GT car). But weight isn't the only part of the equation.
The Z was designed to be a world class GT car. Compared to Porsches and other exotics. Even in Japan the Z holds it's own place in the Nissan family tree next to the Silvia's, and Skyline's are very diffent creatures.
Handling truely comes down to driver. The Z is an incredible car in the corners and carries it's weight very well. Even with out the hicas. I have been able to follow quite a few 240's through corners (to their surprise).
A majority of 240 owners have this belief that the Z was a lesser model for Nissan. They often tell me how the 240/silvia is the little brother to the GTR and how their lighter weight and balance makes them a superior handling car. I also hear the stories of the GTR super cars and yada, yada, yada.
Stock to stock, a 240 has a very hard time keeping with a Z. When you start to talk about modified versions of either the only piece of the equation you have to remember is the Z had a better starting point on the totem pole. And don't forget Z' get lighter as you modify them. A Street legal Z may never weigh less than a 240, but most Z owners like there luxuries (that's why they bought a GT car). But weight isn't the only part of the equation.
The Z was designed to be a world class GT car. Compared to Porsches and other exotics. Even in Japan the Z holds it's own place in the Nissan family tree next to the Silvia's, and Skyline's are very diffent creatures.
I'm sorry but this gen sucks..
So what we have the EVO and STI.. The 90s had these as well (Japan only)
We are finally get some sporty sub compact.. GREAT.. what about the ULTRA FAST 90s GT sports cars.. THERE ARE NONE!!!
The 350Z is a nice car.. It needs more power.. It has almost no tuneability from the factory, unlike the Z32.. Sure you can slap a TT kit on it, but this is a major expense.. The 90s turbo cars are gone, all that remains are the sub compact rally cars.. it's cool we have these, don't get me wrong, but they shouldn't be in place of the supra/rx7 etc..
Let's break this down.
MR2 is now the MRs.. don't even compare.. No turbo, no comparison
RX7.. Well we have the RX8.. not as fast, not nearly as tuneable.. doesn't handle as well.. If you've driven an FD, you understand the RX8 isn't in it's class, not even close.. The RX7 provided road racers a true pure sports car, capable of porsche like feel and control. The RX8 is a fun car to drive, but not in the same vein.
Supra? Well as stated before, the concept is FUGLY. According to autospies it's going to be some hybrid with 500+ hp.. This could be interesting.. A 3.5 gas engine with 300+ hp, and a 200 hp electric engine.. Cool, but I miss the outrageous old over engineered supra.. bring it back. .99G skidpad.. excellent slalom numbers.. Porsche turbo braking numbers.. infinite tuneability..
Z32, well there is the 350.. However factor in the Z32 was roughly the same price in 1990 as the 350z is now.. Factor in inflation and you have a car that costs thousands, if not tens of thousands more.. Nothing is for free, it's the same price for a reason..
yes we have the subcompact rice rocket rally cars.. Kudos to Japan to finally sending them over.. THANK YOU.. NOW BRING BACK THE crazy over engineered GT sports coupes that everyone fell in love with... Slap a turbo kit from the factory on the 350, this would be the first official car that could be considered the 90s GT rival.
The Z06 is awesome.. The Vette is awesome.. Every time it evolves it becomes better. The C6 and the eventual c6 z06 will be even better. These are american though, let's talk Japanese.
So what we have the EVO and STI.. The 90s had these as well (Japan only)
We are finally get some sporty sub compact.. GREAT.. what about the ULTRA FAST 90s GT sports cars.. THERE ARE NONE!!!
The 350Z is a nice car.. It needs more power.. It has almost no tuneability from the factory, unlike the Z32.. Sure you can slap a TT kit on it, but this is a major expense.. The 90s turbo cars are gone, all that remains are the sub compact rally cars.. it's cool we have these, don't get me wrong, but they shouldn't be in place of the supra/rx7 etc..
Let's break this down.
MR2 is now the MRs.. don't even compare.. No turbo, no comparison
RX7.. Well we have the RX8.. not as fast, not nearly as tuneable.. doesn't handle as well.. If you've driven an FD, you understand the RX8 isn't in it's class, not even close.. The RX7 provided road racers a true pure sports car, capable of porsche like feel and control. The RX8 is a fun car to drive, but not in the same vein.
Supra? Well as stated before, the concept is FUGLY. According to autospies it's going to be some hybrid with 500+ hp.. This could be interesting.. A 3.5 gas engine with 300+ hp, and a 200 hp electric engine.. Cool, but I miss the outrageous old over engineered supra.. bring it back. .99G skidpad.. excellent slalom numbers.. Porsche turbo braking numbers.. infinite tuneability..
Z32, well there is the 350.. However factor in the Z32 was roughly the same price in 1990 as the 350z is now.. Factor in inflation and you have a car that costs thousands, if not tens of thousands more.. Nothing is for free, it's the same price for a reason..
yes we have the subcompact rice rocket rally cars.. Kudos to Japan to finally sending them over.. THANK YOU.. NOW BRING BACK THE crazy over engineered GT sports coupes that everyone fell in love with... Slap a turbo kit from the factory on the 350, this would be the first official car that could be considered the 90s GT rival.
The Z06 is awesome.. The Vette is awesome.. Every time it evolves it becomes better. The C6 and the eventual c6 z06 will be even better. These are american though, let's talk Japanese.
A factory turboed 350 Z/MR2/RX-8 would be soooo nice. It would somewhat bring back the the thrill that the 90s counterparts offered. Especially in the Z.
Besides what I have read, I really wouldnt know about the full impact those cars had in the 90s since Im only 18. As a little kid I knew I loved them, but thats as far as that goes.
Besides what I have read, I really wouldnt know about the full impact those cars had in the 90s since Im only 18. As a little kid I knew I loved them, but thats as far as that goes.