180 Degree headers on a VH45DE.

[T45]

Ah, because the exhaust pulses are sequential. Gotcha.

[Mettler]

Hmmm I just bought a 210amp mig welder yesterday with the intention of re-mounting my engine and refabricating my extractors.

Any other bidders keen to offer me 100 bucks to try it ?

[David Steele]

It doesn't sound any different in a ford engine, I'm not sure how they group theres.

http://media.putfile.com/Pantera-Sound

Construction: http://www.precisionproformance.com/windsor180.htm

[doctorchee]

hi Pal

i guess i will be the first one to do it... as car is already in a exhuast shop waiting for me to give the design of the hearder to them.... which will be tomorrow. flange etc is all completed already.. haha

ok last thing to confirm is the cyclinder numbers.. as from information above.. i still get different information on somewhere else.

PLEASE SOMEONE HELP TO CONFIRM ON IT tonight so i can go on with it and be the first person to get it done and get a $100 free??? haha kidding....

the thing is there is left hand and right hand drive.. so passenger and drive r side get mixes up.

PLEAES CONFIRM THIS below

VH41DE

radiator fan 2 1 4 3 6 5 7 8 flywheel

thanks everyone...

Regrdsderrick
Modified by doctorchee at 4:26 AM 8/31/2007

[David Steele]

hi Pal

i guess i will be the first one to do it... as car is already in a exhuast shop waiting for me to give the design of the hearder to them.... which will be tomorrow. flange etc is all completed already.. haha

ok last thing to confirm is the cyclinder numbers.. as from information above.. i still get different information on somewhere else.

PLEASE SOMEONE HELP TO CONFIRM ON IT tonight so i can go on with it and be the first person to get it done and get a $100 free??? haha kidding....

the thing is there is left hand and right hand drive.. so passenger and drive r side get mixes up.

PLEAES CONFIRM THIS below

VH41DE

radiator fan 2 1 4 3 6 5 7 8 flywheel

thanks everyone...

Regrdsderrick

Modified by doctorchee at 4:26 AM 8/31/2007

If your gonna be the first one to see if the sound is acutally produced you cant put those groups together those are just 45 to 90 degree separations.

You gotta do it like this : (1-6 7-4 ) ( 2-3 5-8)

[mtcookson]

Cylinder placement is like so:

Radiator2 -- 14 -- 36 -- 58 -- 7

And David's got it, if you want 8-4-1 headers join 1-6-7-4 and 2-3-5-8. If you want 8-4-2-1 headers join 1-6, 7-4, 2-3, 5-8 then 1-6-7-4 and 2-3-5-8.

8-4-2-1 would be best for a twin turbo setup with twin scroll turbine housings. In this instant you would put 1-6 on one scroll of one turbo and 7-4 on the other. Then the same for 2-3-5-8 on the other side.

[doctorchee]

thanks for everything everyone.. best of the best info...

now i am leaving to the exhaust shop now. any feedback will let u guys know. if everything goes well, should be complete in 1month times. however, engine can start but still need a new ECU (maybe DTAS80 or SM2) to really control the engine after new turbos.

else... as the exhaust shop did say some feedback say it sound very diffcult... say i kind of crazy.. so lets hope they are able to do it.

Attached is my hand drawn 180degree headers.http://i177.photobucket.com/al...8.jpgh ... al...7.jpg

The square box is the twin scroll turbo.

other detailsdesign: 8-4 (twin scroll turbo x 2) - 2- 1 primary header size - slightly bigger than exhaust portprimary header length - 28-30inch (un equal length)8-4 collector (20% bigger than primary) total 4 collectorthe 2-1. 2 is after turbo which is about 2.75inchthe final 1 is the y joint after turbo which will be 4 inch

thanks all

please advise and comments...

Lastly... yes will do all sound recording and videos..

cheersderrick

[mtcookson]

The unequal length might hurt as exhaust pulses won't reach the turbo at the same time. To get the full effect you'll want to keep them as close to equal length as possible, which is really the hardest part of this setup.

[T45]

Cylinder placement is like so:

Radiator2 -- 14 -- 36 -- 58 -- 7

Is it just me or is everyone else looking at the engine upside down from the oil pan?

[Mettler]

You're right T45... if you're looking top down, the numbers should be flipped left to right. Cylinders 1,3,5,7 are on your driver's side as per the FSM.

[doctorchee]

QUOTE=Mettler]You're right T45... if you're looking top down, the numbers should be flipped left to right. Cylinders 1,3,5,7 are on your driver's side as per the FSM.[/QUOTE].

need to confirm again.. i very very worried now. confused about the cyclinder number...

first there is driver side difference.. left hand...right hand drive..now there is top and down view... oh ...blur...

please someone help to confirm again.

all view from top (spark plug) to down (oil pan)http://i177.photobucket.com/al...7.jpg

or i should flip the cylinder number?

someone please tell me the correct one.. i already sent the second format to the exhuast shop to work on. don't want to get it all wrong

lastly, what is FSM? where to locate it.??

thanks alot.

RegardsDerrick
Modified by doctorchee at 12:03 AM 9/2/2007

[doctorchee]

all view from top (spark plug) to down (oil pan)http://i177.photobucket.com/al...7.jpg

or i should flip the cylinder number?

thanks.

[Mettler]

If you want to make sure for yourself, go look at the lower intake runners, the numbers are cast into them. You'll see for yourself which cylinder is which.

If you're standing at the front of the car looking at the engine, the frontmost right cylinder is cylinder #1.

[T45]

lastly, what is FSM? where to locate it.?

Modified by doctorchee at 12:03 AM 9/2/2007

Factory service manual.

http://www.phatg20.net

[doctorchee]

ha just some update.

some photo of the flange done.

180degree header drawing submitted and approved by the exhaust shop. they getting to work today already.

routhing all right bank to left bank. 2 header over the gearbox, 2 header under the gearbox or oil pan.

http://i177.photobucket.com/al...1.jpgh ... al...3.jpg









cheers..

derrick
Modified by doctorchee at 1:43 AM 9/3/2007

[David Steele]

Those head flanges are very thick. What are they made of?

[elwesso]

those flanges look identical to the OEM ones...

BTW, for all im starting an article in the articles forum about 180 degree headers.

zerothread/276524

please critique.. Mark, if you just want to add stuff directly to it, you should be able to do that (if not I can get you that ability).

[doctorchee]

Those head flanges are very thick. What are they made of?

head flanges are made of steel.

header piping will be all 2mm stainless stell mandral bent.

[doctorchee]

will try to put some picture in about 1-2weeks time.

hope this helps.

[mtcookson]

Is it just me or is everyone else looking at the engine upside down from the oil pan?

My fault, I was thinking of my VG30 for some reason. You're right, as per the FSM it should be reverse of what I posted, or:

Front1 23 45 67 8Back

Wes, I don't have that ability at the moment so if you could make it so...

There's a few things that can be added/edited and what not. If you want, I can just email it to you as well.

[doctorchee]

Hi all

some photo to update the progress...













Thats all... they estimate will complete the header in next week time. faster than i thought.

will put up some more photo next week.

cheersDerrick

[Mettler]

doctorchee, has anyone ever told you that you're crazy? Not the regular kind of crazy either, but bat**** insane?

[David Steele]

Um its INSIDE the car?

I'm planned to do this also.

[ultrapulse]

..I take it the turbo housings will be swivelled later?, as seeing the turbo oil outlets facing sideways and not straight down isnt a good look.Sorry if I have totally misunderstood the pic, but would hate to see a nice setup go bad for a reason like that By the way this is going to be insane

[doctorchee]

doctorchee, has anyone ever told you that you're crazy? Not the regular kind of crazy either, but bat**** insane?

Doctor say i have brain cancer.... only keep doing crazy things will cure it...

haha... yes i think i am crazy also.. but the car 90% see tracks. so i guess never mind...

[doctorchee]

..I take it the turbo housings will be swivelled later?, as seeing the turbo oil outlets facing sideways and not straight down isnt a good look.Sorry if I have totally misunderstood the pic, but would hate to see a nice setup go bad for a reason like that By the way this is going to be insane

thanks a lot pal.

yes it will be swivelled or rotated. i actually try to put the turbo higher so as the oil can be reutrn via a higher attitude.

you are sharp... thanks.

will update more photo next week.

now busy looking for a ECU. properly a autronic Sm2. a used 1 would be perfect.. $$$ running low fast...

[SeanDean]

There's actually an easier way of doing this guys, especially for you doctorchee...

Let me go and find some pictures of 60's Grand Prix motors to demonstrate.

It's pretty unconventional, but I think it's exactly the kind of thing you will be into doc!
Modified by SeanDean at 6:58 AM 9/15/2007

[SeanDean]

Cant find the V8 pictures, and so far this is the only V12 shot I found......



Swapping the heads on the VH has actually been in my mind since about 3 years ago when I originally wanted to turbo my 4.1 in the 240SX and it made sense from a standpoint of exhaust simplicity and spool response.

Then around beginning of '07 after a friend of mine was talking about how you can tune torque by placement of the crossover pipe I started thinking about instead of a crossover pipe, just having the out of sequence primary cross under the motor to the opposite collector. I had remembered seeing some special headers in Summit like 10 years ago that had 1 primary join the collector about 8inches further back.....

I started thinking about making custom headers using 4into2 on each side, and pairing the 180deg cylinders, then matching them up with opposite pulses from the other side....

Never put the two ideas together though, hmmmm. I think I'm gonna take the heads off my spare VH tomorrow now and see if the side-side swap works.....



-Sean

EDIT: Another:

And this, actually a BRM double flat8, but same idea:


Modified by SeanDean at 8:28 AM 9/15/2007

[David Steele]

^ See if everything matches up. I'll try it also with pictures if you want.

Doing this would have you doing something about the coolant outlets though.

[David Steele]

Nope different bolt patterns on the end the head would have to to a 180 turn when there swapped.