Nissan Forums / Infiniti Forums - NICOclub > KA24ET / KA24DET Forum > Megasquirt Write-up for KA24 series engines. (Printable Version) Click here to print this topic.
Post Title: Megasquirt Write-up for KA24 series engines. Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 10:53 PM 1/15/2007 With permission by the crew at DIYAutotune (Jerry, Matt) I am posting up the write up they did to install a Megasquirt ecu on stock KA ignition.
Quote, originally posted by DIYAutotune »
Jerry and I have put together a guide to setting up Megasquirt on the KA-series engine. Right now this article covers what specific mods you will need to the Megasquirt and what wiring you will need to set up Megasquirt on an S13 with a KA24E or KA24DE. We'll be adding more information on settings, the S14, and the factory ignition module soon!
How to MegaSquirt your 240SX
Directly driving the coil with the MegaSquirt-I PCB 3.0 and MSnS-E 029v or later or the MegaSquirt-II
Updated 1/10/2007
Application(s): 1989-1994 Nissan 240SX with KA24E or KA24DE
Also applies to 1994.5 and later converted to an external coil distributor from the 89-94.
Other vehicles with KA series engines, such as Nissan pickup trucks, are similar.
Level of control: Full Standalone EMS-- Fuel and Ignition Control
The optical trigger on a 240SX may look a bit complicated, with two rows of slits and the unequal slit sizes in the inner ring. However, setting up Megasquirt to work with this ignition is surprisingly simple. Megasquirt does not need or use the information provided by the second ring of 360 slits or the length of the inner slits, so you just need to obtain a signal from the trailing edge of the ring of 4 slits. This writeup covers using a VB921 for controlling the coil.
ECU Modifications
It's choice time, MS-I with MSnS-E firmware, or MS-II. The choice is yours. It's possible to make your KA run with either ECU. The MS-I with MSnS_E is extremely mature, has a ton of features, and is pretty near the end of its development cycle. The MS-II is much newer, faster hardware, though the development is really just getting kicked off. While it has some features that MSnS_E doesn't have, the reverse is also true in that MSnS_E has some features that the MS-II doesn't have (though most require mods to enable them). The writer of the MSnS_E firmware has been conducting some tests on the MS-II firmware and I expect to see some really cool things happen soon...
Using the MS-I PCBv3 with MSnS-E firmware
This is assuming you are starting with an ECU built up like I build my assembled MS130-C MegaSquirt-I PCB3.0 units. If you are building your unit up from a kit you can implement these changes during assembly.
Flash ECU with MSnS-E version 029v or later. (How? Click Here.) (Or Here)
Jumper IGBTOUT to IGN to send to IGBT ignition coil driver signal out of pin 36 on the DB37.
Cut out C12 and C30. (Only needed when triggering from the - terminal of the coil, which you are not)
Remove D1 and jumper it, or just install a jumper wire across it's leads. (Only needed when triggering from the - terminal of the coil, which you are not)
Cut out R57 if fitted (this won't be there on my units though).
Get a 330 ohm 1/4w resistor and cut the leads down to about 1/2" at each end. Maybe a bit less.
Tin each end of the resistor with a bit of solder.
Cut a 5" piece of hookup wire (22ga is fine) and strip just a 1/8" or so. Tin the stripped wire with solder.
Melt the tinned wire tip to one end of the tinned 330 ohm resistor tip and let it cool.
Heatshrink wrap this wire/resistor assembly.
Use this wire/resistor combo to jumper the 'top' (top as in when you facing the silkscreen side of the PCB, with the text so that you can read it normally) lead of R26 to IGBTIN on the opposite side of the PCB.
Thats it!
Using the MS-II PCBv3 ECU
Build the ECU up to trigger from the Hall/Optical Input (all of our MS230-C units are by default configured this way).
The only change is to enable the IGBT High Current Ignition Coil Driver Circuit to directly drive the coil.
Remove the jumper from JS10 to IGN (if exists)
Jumper IGBTIN to JS10
Jumper IGBTOUT to IGN
(This will enable the VB921 Ignition Coil Driver)
Thats it!
Wiring]
The output is quite straightforward - you will just need to connect the negative terminal of the coil to pin 36. The specifics of the input wiring will depend on which year 240 you have; Nissan changed the wiring colors in 1991. However, the wires serve the same purpose; only the colors changed. Note that these years apply to the 240SX and are not the same for other KA-powered vehicles. For example, it appears that some Nissan pickup trucks with the KA24E engine retained the earlier color scheme for considerably longer.
Distributor Wire Colors '89-'90 [Purpose] B/W [12v]+ G/B [MS Trigger (to Pin 24 on DB37, or Relay Board TACH terminal)] G/Y [not used] Black [Ground]
'91 and later Purpose B/W 12v+ White MS Trigger (to Pin 24 on DB37, or Relay Board TACH terminal) Black not used Black Ground
Fast idle valves, relays and other components
The 240SX used a thermal type fast idle valve that just needs to be supplied with 12 volt power when the engine is turned on. The valve will open on its own, so you do not need to set up any sort of idle control with Megasquirt.
The stock Nissan ECCS relay is grounded through a circuit in the ECU. Also, the stock S13 wiring harness is set up to send the injectors 12 volts at all times, even when the ignition is turned off. When converting to Megasquirt, the injectors must not have 12 volt power unless the Megasquirt is also powered up. Sending the injectors 12 volt power with the Megasquirt ECU off can result in damage to the injector drivers.The wiring diagram below shows one possible way of modifying the stock wiring so that the ECU and injectors power up at the same time, and also allows the other components drawing power from the ECCS relay to work as normal.
An alternate method of dealing with this is to use the Megasquirt relay board instead of the stock ECCS relay to power the Megasquirt, injectors, and crank angle sensor.
MegaTune Configuration for MSnS-E
On the 'Spark' menu choose 'Spark Settings' and set 'Spark Output Inverted' to YES. It is critical to get the Spark Output Inverted setting correct, as setting this wrong can result in damage to the VB921. Dwell settings will depend on the coil used. A typical rule of thumb is to back off the dwell until you can just barely detect a misfire under lean cruising conditions, then add 0.2 ms of dwell time.
If you use someone else's .msq file I do recommend you check the MSnS-E firmware version the .msq file was built on as you cannot always use a file built on one version of MSnS_E with a different version-- it's best to use the .msq files with the same version of the MSnS-E firmware that it was built on.
MegaTune Configuration for MS-II
As this is a 'path less traveled' thus far you probably won't find people with maps to share for your car just yet. You can however dial it in with a bit of patience and some 'how to tune' homework, most of which you can do in the Megamanual at http://www.megasquirt.info.
Set ignition capture to "Falling Edge."
Important when using the VB921: On the 'Ignition Settings' menu make sure to set 'Spark Output' to 'Going High (Inverted)' and set 'Coil Charging Scheme' to 'Standard Coil Charge'.
We'd like to hear from you!
These settings cover the basic hardware changes required and some of the MegaTune settings based on our research and customer feedback, but we would love to hear from anyone who has set up Megasquirt firsthand on a KA24E or KA24DE and would like to share their configuration settings to help better this article. Also were particularly interested if you are using the stock ignition power transistor (ignition module) instead of VB921 direct coil control which will simplify things further for many. We have a couple of local 240's we may get in the shop soon to 'squirt and further improve this article.
If you have any further information, contributions, or questions about this article, please contact us..
Again I do not take credit for this, this was done by the awesome crew at DIYAutotune and gave me permission to post this.
Definatly will go great with the other write up for the CA.
Post Title: Posted by:fiznat at 11:23 PM 1/15/2007
Nice, thanks Chosen One and thanks DIY AutoTune!
I'll add it to the stickey.
Post Title: Posted by:KATwo40 at 5:59 AM 1/16/2007
Very cool.
Post Title: Re: (KATwo40) Posted by:Biggamehit at 7:29 AM 1/16/2007 cool
im so glad I did great in electronics in highschool very straight forward and simple schematics
im doing it very very soon
Post Title: Re: (Biggamehit) Posted by:WDRacing at 11:43 AM 1/16/2007
I added it to the articles forum. Great info, pass on my thanks.
WD
Post Title: Re: (Biggamehit) Posted by:bige240 at 9:50 PM 1/17/2007
The guy from DIY autotune posted this link in the ka section. This is some of the best info out there besides the megasquirt Mega manual... I wish I woulda found this first. Great info for megasquirt interested people.
Post Title: Posted by:daconkiftador at 10:26 PM 1/17/2007
awesome!
Post Title: Re: (bige240) Posted by:WDRacing at 9:13 AM 1/18/2007 Added that to the sticky as well, what we need are a few more members running MS.
WD
Post Title: Posted by:S13FX at 11:22 AM 1/19/2007
Great now that I crash my car you guys post this. Maybe if this came a week earlier I wouldn't have crashed my car, cause I would have been busy installing MS lol. Awesome JOB BTW.
Post Title: Re: (WDRacing) Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 6:27 AM 1/20/2007
Quote, originally posted by WDRacing »
Added that to the sticky as well, what we need are a few more members running MS.
WD
You'd be surprise how many people are running megasquirt on Nissans and 240's
Post Title: Re: (WDRacing) Posted by:Biggamehit at 3:15 PM 1/20/2007
im comign soon, wait up
Post Title: Re: (Biggamehit) Posted by:bige240 at 10:22 PM 1/21/2007 I promise I'm still gonna do a megasquirt write up...I'm just waiting until I've done all the tuning first, so I'm not talking outta my ***...But one thing my buddy who is well versed in megasquirt told me, he said you could run two different engines with it (pikes peak style). because it works in banks.. Thought that was a cool idea...
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 10:38 PM 1/21/2007 do you mean 2 different maps? If so yes you can.
Post Title: Posted by:TheOne at 2:06 AM 1/22/2007 nice writeup, seriously makin me think about using MS, i though 1 of the hard parts was gettin the ignition installed, guess that made it easy.
but really, somebody needs to do a full writeup of all the wires that go here and there on a 240, what sensors are kept, or wires, what gets used to control the idle and other things.
Post Title: Posted by:KATwo40 at 6:56 AM 1/22/2007
I'd like to discuss with someone their thoughts on the reduction in map resolution when going with MS.
The stock ECU uses 16x16 tables, whereas the MS uses 12x12.
While both use interpolation to fill the gaps between cells, I wonder if anyone finds that they need to tune a particular area that just can't be accessed because it's an interpolation spot, rather than a tuneable cell on the map.
I'm still not giving up on using MS, as I've been SERIOUSLY contemplating using it. WD and I have discussed this pretty in-depth and I'm nearing a point when I can do some MS testing.
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 9:58 AM 1/22/2007
in reality really 12x12 is actually more than enough.
The cool thing about the megasquirt software if their is a trouble spot, you can expand it and tune it more.
you can also run Dual maps 1 for each bank of injectors.
Interpolation happens on every single ecu because its impossible to map every point on a motor no matter how big your maps are, thats why it's EXTREMLY important that the code is solid to make good calculations when the system interpolates.
I'm a megasquirt user with boost, to be honest my car actually feels a lot better than any stock ecu setup that I've driven or used. To put it bluntly it feels like I'm driving a brand new car thats how smooth it is, from normal cruising to boosting hard.
Also a lot depends on the person tuning, after speaking with a few people that have used both stock and MS. Some said they had issues because their wasnt enough map points, it was the result of crappy tuning.
Here are examples of insane Megasquirt setups with high boost.
Dont forget these are computers based on user inputs "Garbage In, Garbage Out"
Post Title: Re: (TheOne) Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 10:05 AM 1/22/2007
Quote, originally posted by TheOne »
nice writeup, seriously makin me think about using MS, i though 1 of the hard parts was gettin the ignition installed, guess that made it easy.
but really, somebody needs to do a full writeup of all the wires that go here and there on a 240, what sensors are kept, or wires, what gets used to control the idle and other things.
Aside from the wires that are listed above for the distributor. Their is only 2 other wires to connect. 1 is Fuel Pump, their is a plug near the battery hold down area, its a Brown 8 pin plug, look for a Black/Pink wire thats your fuel pump relay wire thats where you wire up for Megasquirt. The 2nd wire is the 12volt ignition, you can find it on the ignition cylinder where you insert your key, test for the wire that gives power while cranking and on the run position I'm pretty sure its Black/White on the cylinder and when you follow it, it changes to a Black/Red wire.
Post Title: Posted by:KATwo40 at 10:51 AM 1/22/2007
So, with the MS2, you can pull the stock ECU out and sell it?
Post Title: Re: (KATwo40) Posted by:WDRacing at 11:15 AM 1/22/2007 I believe basically yes. Although IIRC some people use the factory ECU for gauges.
Great thread so far.
Post Title: Posted by:KATwo40 at 11:56 AM 1/22/2007
The only way I'm gonna use any standalone is if I can completely remove the stock ECU and still retain the OEM gauge operation.
Hopefully Neo (The Chosen One) will chime in here with some good news for me!
Post Title: Re: (KATwo40) Posted by:WDRacing at 1:19 PM 1/22/2007
Why? is it that important to remove the ecu? Are you being gay?
Post Title: Re: (WDRacing) Posted by:S13FX at 1:41 PM 1/22/2007
Quote, originally posted by WDRacing »
Why? is it that important to remove the ecu? Are you being gay?
Do you really have to ask?
Post Title: Re: (WDRacing) Posted by:KATwo40 at 2:02 PM 1/22/2007
Quote, originally posted by WDRacing »
Why? is it that important to remove the ecu? Are you being gay?
Hell yeah, it's important. What's the use in spending several hundred dollars on MS (or any other standalone) if you still must shoulder the stock ECU? If I have to keep the stocker, I'll just use it for the whole deal.
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 7:35 PM 1/22/2007
The Gauges are standalone, all the sensors run right to the gauge cluster.
Just remove the engine harness, and ECU, but keep the lower harness as that connects your speedo, reverse lights etc etc. The lower harness connects to the main body harness which Tees off to the cluster harness.
At the moment the DIYAutotune crew is experimenting with A/C load detection which is what the stock ecu does when you turn on the A/C. But if you arent using A/C it doesnt matter and your good to go.
So yes removing harness and ecu is ok and cluster still works fine.
The only thing you have to do is run a wire for your Tach to Megasquirt.
The wire on the Tach is Yellow/Red.
Post Title: Posted by:babowc at 8:40 PM 1/26/2007
Nice! This should be a sticky! Unless it already is?
Post Title: Re: Posted by:WDRacing at 8:50 PM 1/26/2007 What about ABS...any issues with ABS? I have no real idea how thats controlled, is it also a standalone system? This could sound stupid I guess but I don't care.
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 9:00 PM 1/26/2007 For ABS I'm pretty sure it becomes neutralized, since its controled by the ecu. I'm sure Megasquirt can control ABS if you truly wanted because in reality ABS is just a hall sensor on each wheel, but come on real men dont need ABS
Post Title: Re: (The_Chosen_One) Posted by:WDRacing at 9:12 PM 1/26/2007 Maybe I'm really a women inside of a man
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 9:14 PM 1/26/2007 than whats with the Fetish of Flesh Lights as Your Avatar?
Post Title: Re: (The_Chosen_One) Posted by:WDRacing at 9:45 PM 1/26/2007 I like to keep everyone guessing...
Post Title: Re: (WDRacing) Posted by:sil80drifter at 12:10 PM 2/6/2007 Can someone describe what exactly constitutes the "engine" harness which we can take out and have completely replaced by our own MS harness? We wouldn't want to cut out important wires thinking we don't need them... Also, I am a bit rusty on this, but does the engine harness control only fuel/spark? What controls thins like the alternator, starter, etc?
I am trying to figure out whether it's worth to just make one's own harness for the MS... Has anyone removed the engine harness completely and made their own relay box? What would be included in such a relay box?
Post Title: Re: (sil80drifter) Posted by:bige240 at 10:56 PM 2/6/2007
okay...If you throw away the entire engine harness, (every single little bit of wire in the engine bay), You would have to replace the injector, TPS, O2, coolant temp., and distributor wiring. You would also have to tee off the FPR vaccum line to go to the map sensor and add a GM ambient air temp sensor.
The alt and starter are controlled by the ignition...
In actuality you could just pull every one of the wires out of the back of the stock ECU and connect them to the relay board or make the pigtail to go to the megasquirt and just leave the rest of the stuff hanging.
You can't make your own relay box, at least I don't think so. You have to buy the relay board, or make your own pig tail
Post Title: Re: (bige240) Posted by:sil80drifter at 8:17 AM 2/7/2007
Thanks! Well here is the deal... I think one of the really good reasons for making a new harness is that the one in there right now is between 13-18 years old. It's cracked, rusted, heat cycled, salted, oiled, etc etc etc. And in many cases (such as mine) the many engine pulls have nicked or damaged some wires to the point where they make the engine run poorly on the stock ECU. What you'v described below is SO easy to make! What about the various relays/fuses and etc, are those at all involved with the engine operation? Things like the fuel pump fuse, and etc... I just saw the ending of your post about buying the relay board.
Has anyone got an examples of such a board on the 240? What relays are needed and which can be re-used?
Also, does the tach use the engine harness for signal? I know that once I've connected my SAFC, the RPM's wouldn't work right on the SAFC (but worked fine on the tach), but then, oddly, when I connected the MSD BTM (some wiring on the coil) the SAFC started working great but the tach died. As soon as I unplugged the BTM and replugged the wires on the coil, the tach came to life again and the SAFC started showing rpms poorly like before.
So those are some of my worries about the engine harness...
Post Title: Re: (sil80drifter) Posted by:bige240 at 12:19 PM 2/7/2007
You are right about just wanting to make a new harness, the stockie is old and messed up, and has some stuff you don't need. It'll also help you trouble shoot, since you know exactly what wires are going where. Just snip off the stock plugs with some wire to spare and splice your wiring onto them. Looking into the megasquirt relay board is something you might want to do, since it makes hooking up the harness 100x easier. The relay board has fuses in it, and also has a signal for the tach and the fuel pump. You just screw your wires into a block that has everything simply labeled for you.
Yes the tach gets its signal from the engine harness, namely the dizzy wiring, but with the relay board you just connect everything up and you run a signal wire to the tach from the relay block, along with a power and a ground.
I'm not sure what relays you'll want to keep, since I went buckwild and tore them all out.
You can also do ABS Megasquirt, if you so choose...The hall sensor is a powerful thing...
Post Title: Re: (bige240) Posted by:98240kat at 1:10 PM 2/7/2007
My only real qualms are these. Assembly for one. Although I have quite a bit of expirience in electronics from building computers to electric race cars assembly is still an annoyance and risk. All its takes is one slip with a soldering gun and ur out 256 bucks pretty much depending on what part u happen to score. My other qualm was I believe somewhere on the page it stated the map sensor was only good for 21 lbs of boost, which i plan on running possibly more on occasion. And our course the wiring could be a bit crazy all depends on the person and what have you. My one question is does anyone know if it will work with 98 style KA24de? If so do all the same guides above apply? Also if it was a matter of 1000 dollar difference would u just buy an AEM EMS if you had te money?
Post Title: Re: (98240kat) Posted by:bige240 at 6:02 PM 2/7/2007 You do not have to assemble the board by yourself!!! You can buy boards already built from several places including DIY autotune and Ebay for not much more money.
This ecu will work on ANY fuel injected engine.
You can get a 2bar (26psi) or a 4bar (52psi) map sensor for the Board also and run boost until your engine explodes.
The wiring is very simple and not much different than the wiring you already have in your engine bay.
I could buy just about any standalone out there and I still like the megasquirt. If more 240 guys would buy it, I'm sure someone would make a plug-and-play harness for it just like someone did for the Toyota 4AG series (corolla, mr2) engine.
Post Title: Re: (bige240) Posted by:FattyMcBaggins at 12:10 AM 2/8/2007
I am very interested in using this for my KAE-T. I'm not so great with wiring, but I think this would be a really good way to get a handle on it.
Post Title: Re: (FattyMcBaggins) Posted by:98240kat at 7:16 AM 2/8/2007 I think Im going to go with the MegaSquirt does anyone know of any diagrams or DIY's for a 95-98 model??
Post Title: Re: (98240kat) Posted by:sil80drifter at 8:55 AM 2/8/2007 Google it, but I'd doubt it. The guys above are the first ones to do a 240sx DIY as such, and I think they were doign it to show how to us a general kind of distributor setup with MS-I. I've already written tot hem and asked about any differences from that to MS-II, and will post their answer as soon as I get it.
Their write-up above states that "We'll be adding more information on settings, the S14, and the factory ignition module soon!"
So keep your fingers crossed and try to reasearch it on your own for now. Best of luck and don't forget to post any findings!
sil80
Post Title: Re: (sil80drifter) Posted by:sil80drifter at 9:25 AM 2/8/2007
Don't I love myself for not reading things properly the first time! The MS-II changes are right there in the explanation!
Using the MS-II PCBv3 ECU
Build the ECU up to trigger from the Hall/Optical Input (all of our MS230-C units are by default configured this way). The only change is to enable the IGBT High Current Ignition Coil Driver Circuit to directly drive the coil. Remove the jumper from JS10 to IGN (if exists) Jumper IGBTIN to JS10 Jumper IGBTOUT to IGN (This will enable the VB921 Ignition Coil Driver)
That's it!
Well, at least the guys from DIYAutotune are really nice. Matt responded to my email almost immediately and was the one who pointed out that there are very few differences between the two boards in terms of set-up, so hey! I'm an idiot but at least it's all settled now.
Let's hope they come out with something for the 95+ 240s soon.
In the mean time I am selling my SAFC II, VAFC II (Honda phase, don't ask), SOHC VTEC Head and MSD BTM, so I can buy the MS! Whoo!
sil80
Post Title: Re: (98240kat) Posted by:WDRacing at 9:46 AM 2/8/2007
Just need to know what wires go where on the MSII, the rest we can help figure out. Hell, I could probably hook up a wiring diagram and I've never even seen a MSII. The existing wires are easy enough to tap into, and a harness is even easier.
But don't count on me for this writeup...but one of you other guys could head that up.
WD
Post Title: Re: (WDRacing) Posted by:98240kat at 10:12 AM 2/8/2007
Well if I choose to go with the MS I am going to use their harness and rewire the engine, I figure that will be the easiest way to do it really. Im still unsure though I may still wind up with an AEM EMS if i can't find to much on the MS. Id rather just plug and play really but ill give MS a shot if they can give me more info soon. So as you said fingers crossed. Ill post some pics up of the car as soon as I wash it
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 1:32 PM 2/8/2007 come on guys theirs a ****load of information already on this forum.
Look at my write up I did a yr ago.
Even though its for a CA and FORD EDIS it still should explain EVERYTHING for you.
Heres a wiring diagram I made for my harness as you can see the color changes
So pretty much remove the ecu and the plug that goes with it. Leave the lower harness and tranny as that controls your speedo, reverse lights, alternator, starter etc etc. All that will connect to the main body harness.
As for the RELAY board, thats really only meant for older cars that arent as advanced as ours. The 240sx has its own relays so you tap into them which in reality is only 2 wires 1 for the fuel pump relay and 1 for the Ignition switch.
98240KAT I could probably help you in the future as I live in South Florida as well. Pembrooke Pines is like 30mins south of me.
Post Title: Re: (The_Chosen_One) Posted by:98240kat at 4:52 PM 2/8/2007
Wow thats actually awesome to know man. Im pretty new to Pembroke we should get togeather some time and hit a car meet or something. Plus itd be great to have someone else to work on my car with. Let me know.
Post Title: Posted by:180sx at 5:36 PM 2/8/2007 There is quite a fe ka's out there with megasquirt. And its better to rip out old ecu and harness and just run new clean wires all together. Old harness has useless crap. But yah people still prefer to buy easy tap ins or tuned ecu. ALot just wanna plug and play, or punch in or load in a few settings.Tuning standalone requires time and knoweledge and a few blown engines or money to pay someone to tune it right. Othrwise you'll never see full use out of it. What support does Megasquirt provide for knock sensor that comes oem on ka24de?
Post Title: Re: (180sx) Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 7:09 PM 2/8/2007
Quote, originally posted by 180sx »
There is quite a fe ka's out there with megasquirt. And its better to rip out old ecu and harness and just run new clean wires all together. Old harness has useless crap. But yah people still prefer to buy easy tap ins or tuned ecu. ALot just wanna plug and play, or punch in or load in a few settings.Tuning standalone requires time and knoweledge and a few blown engines or money to pay someone to tune it right. Othrwise you'll never see full use out of it. What support does Megasquirt provide for knock sensor that comes oem on ka24de?
Just wire up the knock sensor, input your parameters and off you go. Plus knock sensors are crap useless little buggers.
Post Title: Re: (180sx) Posted by:sil80drifter at 9:46 AM 3/2/2007
Where would examples of these "many" KAs be found? I've googled my *** off and didn't find much info... I am asking because this directly pertains to my situation and I would like to communicate set up and install questions with others.
I am in the process of talking to DIYAutotune and starting my own MS-II conversion soon, sans the EDIS stuff, as it makes me uncomfortable and seems moot with the stock dizzy able to be utilized just as well.
I will be doing a detailed write up and hopefully this will be the start of the KA24E MS period, where people see just how easy it is to standalone their KA-Es themselves. Someone should do one for the KA24DE.
You got me fired up, WD, I don't have much time lately to write up things I do, but this seems like a great contribution to a board which has given so much to me in terms of knowledge and experience.
I'll be making a separate thread soon.
sil80
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 2:49 PM 3/3/2007
As for doing a write up if ya want sure, but not really necessary their are 2 write ups.
1 is for a KA with ITB and the other is for the CA18DET. Even though the CA18DET write up isnt KA specific its the same concept the Ford EDIS-4 doesnt care what more as long as its a 4 cylinder and that you have the crank trigger positioned correctly, so using the write for the CA is exactly the same for the KA.
Post Title: Re: (The_Chosen_One) Posted by:WDRacing at 4:57 PM 3/3/2007
The Lambda chart is sweet. I always have to look at the specific lamda for each...now I have a cheater. Plus, you simply see what lamda is for 14.7 and 12.5 then use those two numbers as a cross reference.
Very good tuning writeups. MSII gets better everytime I look into it. By the time I get the motor swap half done, the MSII won't have any bugs and probably a few new options.
WD
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 5:15 PM 3/3/2007
if you wanna get extra fancy you can mess with Flex Fuel.
At the moment its the only aftermarket EMS that allows you to use Flex Fuel technology. The way it works is that you use a sensor from any of the flex fuel cars and what it does is sense the frequency change from Gasoline to E85 even straight up Alcohol. What this does is megasquirt will adjust your maps accordingly when it senses the new fuel. So you dont have to constantly tune if you switch fuels.
As for bugs I havent noticed any, only problem I had was a fuel richness problem which was my own stupid fault.
Overall I'm REALLY REALLY happy with my setup.
Post Title: Posted by:WDRacing at 10:27 PM 3/3/2007
I doubt I'd be able to trust a sensor to control my mapping. I'd just have two set maps, one for ethonal and one for 91 pump. Most people just use a seperate injection kit anyway. More of a detonation suppresent then a fuel source.
WD
Post Title: Re: (WDRacing) Posted by:sil80drifter at 8:12 AM 3/22/2007
It's on its way! I am as excited as a very excited person who's got a special reason to be excited.
I figured when I make a separate thread, I could open it up with my progress on removing the old harness and prepping the rest up for MSing, and then go into the detail of wiring it up and seeing if it blows up when I try to crank it.
I am SO happy I won't have the damn MAFS anymore... ugh, how I hate that wire that goes to it, it's never in a good place and always in the way. Also, that really thick wire that combined injectors and distributor that always rubs the valve cover, I'll figure out just how to make it nice and concealed and NOT RUBBING.
On the other hand I am concered about passing emissions without an air pump... Not baswed on visual, but on the smog results alone...has anyone passed them before while turbo and w/out air pump? I would think yes, but just wondering...
sil80
Post Title: Posted by:WDRacing at 8:49 AM 3/22/2007
I can get you to pass emissions easy, shoot me an email. WDRacing2003@yahoo.com
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 12:08 PM 3/22/2007 when you start wiring do yourself a favor and buy this kit. I made my first megasquirt harness from scratch, when I did my customers I purchased this kit from DIYAutotune and probably took 1/3 of the time to do the wiring than my first one. Eventually I'm gonna redo my harness using this kit as it makes it easier since the wires say what it is.
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 12:31 PM 3/22/2007
why did you waste money?
Post Title: Re: (The_Chosen_One) Posted by:sil80drifter at 12:50 PM 3/22/2007 I chose a very simple, reliable, and easy to track path of wiring up the MS.
I like the relay board a lot, it will make it a snap to trace down any issues, and wiring to it is also very simple. Yes I could try to utilize the old fuses and relays, but WHY? To me it's worth to have a simple solution, and if I spent an extra $100 on it, it's ok. The total coat of the MS with all the stuff is still $620 total for me, and that's under my $700 budget. I know I will be buying some connectors and etc, but again, simplicity and ease of use are important to me.
Similar to why you chose the pre-made harness instead of making your own again, I chose to buy the MS assembled and ready to go. I am comfortable with soldering, but it's just not worth my time, especially having to worry about tracking down solder issues with the Stimulator, when I could be spending that time tuning/driving/f-in my ex. Yes, someone could spend $250 less and 20-30 more hours DIYing the whole thing, instead of buying complete components.
But to me 20 hours are worth more than $250. I make more at work , and I def don't need solder practice.
sil80
Modified by sil80drifter at 6:43 AM 3/23/2007
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 1:27 PM 3/22/2007
I understand your point on having everything ready, but adding the relay board isnt gonna make things easier, your gonna spend more work because your gonna have to redo the things that are already their. The main purpose of the relay board was for people who dont have them in the first place, more older cars. I understand your point on simplicity but the regular harness cant get any simpler its practically MS to whatever sensor and if you follow my guide I took all the guessing work out of it.
Also the only relay you have to tap into is the Fuel Pump, which is taken care of when you splice into a Black/Pink wire thats on a 8pin brown connector near the battery. Than you give power to MS via the ignition switch on the steering wheel.
With the relay board you do the same work as if you did the regular harness but with a few steps more like wiring it to the fuel pump.
If the OEM setup is too old just replace the relays.
Post Title: Re: (The_Chosen_One) Posted by:sil80drifter at 7:44 PM 3/22/2007
Hmm.... The way I see it, I'd still need to hook up the idle solenoid to the idle relay (on the relay board) and the master relay to the ignition. I don't trust my original harness or relays at all. If it does lights and alternator... fine, I'm not out to rewire the whole car. But the engine management stuff, I would like to have all from scratch. I'm pulling a whole new wire from the fuel pump anyway, because the old one is.... old and brittle. The ground and positives will be clean and new, and current won't be affected as with the old wiring.
Additionally the injector, fuel pump and main fuses are also on the board. It's quite useful, if you ask me.
So... I don't think I threw money away on this one.
sil80
Modified by sil80drifter at 11:07 PM 3/22/2007
Post Title: Re: (sil80drifter) Posted by:Edub1 at 4:11 PM 4/14/2007
I think I'm going to go ahead and buy one of these.
I'm wondering though, what all would have to be rewired if I choose to use a new harness Vs splicing into the factory wires? I realy don't think my wiring is in all that bad of shape but if it's not too much trouble new wiring might be nice.
Also, does anyone know how the MS addresses the fast idle control for the AC? I know it works with the idle control but couldn't find any mention of the accessory controler.
Post Title: Posted by:The_Chosen_One at 9:58 AM 4/18/2007
all the information you need is in the front page. It tells you what wires you need off the stock harness.
as for the A/C idle control, their working on it.
Post Title: Re: (The_Chosen_One) Posted by:480sx at 5:44 PM 4/18/2007
Chosen one have you ever tried to wire MS WITH the relay board? Dude, it simplifies things so much. Taping your fuse box is kind of a PITA, plus all your relays are 100K miles+ generally. I started to wire up MS without it, then did research on the relay board and switched to it.
First of all, instead of dealing with 6-8 ground wires for each sensor, you deal with one. From that one ground wire you can run wires to the 2 major ground points on the KA, and your set.
You also eliminate relay setup for the FP, which is a pain to even get at. The wires criss cross in the cab from the FP, go to the relay, and from the relay they go up underneath the dash to the ECU.
To top it all off, the relay board makes things so easy to install, and then later, to diagnose if any problems arise. Its got 20 different connectors, each one having a place where the wire or wires go into, then you tighten down the screw and your connection is made. Like the connections on an amp for car audio, except smaller.
There are other reasons to switch to the relay board im sure, but i cant think of anything else right now.
As a side-note, i just finished installing my MS unit, and tomorrow i go to test all the sensors and that good stuff. I would HIGHLY RECOMMEND the relay board.
The IAC-FCID unit is a PWM/Stepper type motor, and MS can control those types of circuts. However no one knows how to do it yet. I just left all those idle control systems connected to the ECU, so i dont have to worry about losing any drivability.
Modified by 480sx at 9:46 AM 4/20/2007
Post Title: Re: (480sx) Posted by:Edub1 at 2:36 PM 8/16/2007
Are you sure about the IACV? I've observed mine and it seems to be a thermal valve.
Anyway, How does the MS relay board work with all the accessories and would it be a benefit even if my dash is out?
Also, as per the write up, do I need to buy 2, 12V relays to wire the injectors up as shown or are these found in the vehicle somewhere.
Post Title: Re: (Edub1) Posted by:480sx at 3:29 PM 8/16/2007
The main IAC for the 240 is a thermal. That discussion we were having was about another IAC device called a FCID valve. Unless you have AC, it wont mater at all.
If you get the relay board it takes care of your injector problem.
The relay board wont replace your stock relays, it only controls all the engine bay wiring for MS. So, to answer your question, it would still be a benefit, however it really wouldnt matter if your dash was in or not.
Post Title: Re: (480sx) Posted by:Edub1 at 9:34 AM 8/17/2007
I don't want to spend another $200 on that thing. I do have air and will be keeping it. Are you saying to hook that valve up as a stepper and let the IACV do it's own thing from hardwire?
Am I right in understanding that I need to cut the constant hot and add those two relays to the system for the injectors if I don't have the relay box?
Post Title: Re: (The_Chosen_One) Posted by:Edub1 at 8:40 AM 8/19/2007
On the first page figure 2 for wiring the distributor for the 89-90 shows a 1k .25w resistor going to a 12v source. Is there any reason this can't be spliced into the 12v source going to the B/W wire?
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