Z32 brakes finally installed

[Jeff Williams]

I finally installed the cross drilled and slotted rotors, stainless steel lines, DOT4 brake fluid, and custom Z32 calipers today.

It was raining this morning, so I didn't get a start until 2:00 PM.

I had to remove the factory calipers and rotors, then trim the brake shields with my cut-off wheel. I then jumped out the front brake sensor, and tied back both the front an rear sensors so they will not get caught up in the suspension.

I found out the fronts hit the wheels, so I had to grind off some more of the calipers, messing p my custom "INFINITI" lettering. It's agood thing I have 2 sets. The rears clear fine.

I also found out the zinc plating has started to corrode. My storage area is not dry.

As I was puting on the fronts, I also saw 28 MM printed on the edge. I wonder why they would have printed 28 MM on 30 MM rotors? A quick check with the dial gage revealed they printed 28 MM on 28 MM rotors. I guess the eBay seller was wrong about that. They still outweight the OEMs by several ounces.

I would have taken pictures, but the car is nasty.

I rotated the tires, and was planning to change the oil, but was running out of daylight. I will change the oil tomorrow, and clean her up a bit for some photos.

you will just have to live with this pic of then on my counter:

[Q45denver]

I haven't installed mine yet. So the brake pad sensors can't be used with these? Any trouble with the brake lines? My Bembo cross drilled rotors are stamped 28mm as well. I thought maybe it was the minimum thickness allowed. I'm pretty sure the guy I bought them from said thet were 30mm.

[Jeff Williams]

The brake lines are tricky. You have to work them a bit to make sure they don't bind on lock-to-lock. The adapter lines I bought were coated on the rear, but not coated on the front. The fronts should have been coated.

The Z32 pads don't have a place for the sensors. Just jumper the front lines, and you can leave the rear sensor hooked up, just tie it out of the way.

I will be getting some 5 MM spacers for the front, just to give me a little more room for the calipers. The fronts are monsters!

I will post up a review of the brake performance after a few days of driving. I never got a V-tech, so I won't have anything accurate, just seat-of-the-pants reviews.

[squeefoo]

Jeff and Denver, You'll like 'em! I was one of the first to do this a couple years ago.

Jeff you can try some black spiral wire wrap (Walmart) on the fronts to keep the braiding intact from rocks, ETC. A friend of mine thinned out liquid electrical tape and sprayed his bare braided lines with color to protect them for his truck ...looks pretty good too!

[3rd Q]

Mine are set to go on as soon as I get the hardware kit from Joe. Jeff, I painted them black like you, but didn't put on the lettering.

Hope they clear my 16's, if not, I'll wait until I put 18's on.Already installed the ss lines on the rears, made a big improvement in pedal feel.

Anybody have a clear pic of the calipers loaded up with pads? I bought the rebuilt calipers from Murray's and want to make sure I get things in the right order when installing hardware/pads.Paul
Modified by 3rd Q at 1:16 PM 4/2/2006

[elwesso]

good deal jeff... now you can see why i dont recommend using the conversion lines on the Q, they really dont work REALLY good do they?

OEM lines with the bolt cut down works a lot better IMO....

[Jeff Williams]

good deal jeff... now you can see why i dont recommend using the conversion lines on the Q, they really dont work REALLY good do they?

OEM lines with the bolt cut down works a lot better IMO....

Yeah, they are about the same as the SS lines for the Q. They have adapters that screw into the caliper, then the lines screw into the adapters. There is a small piece of hard line, that you can use a small tubing bender to make the bend a 90. That makes it easy. I may cut away the factory line brackets, to reduct the metal I havt to snake around.

The rears fit like a glove, just keep them away from the driveshafts. The fronts take a little forethought, to keep them out of the sway bar brackets and bump stop.

SS lines are still 400% better than the factory rubber.

[Jeff Williams]

Before I did the upgrade, the brakes on Lola were scary. It ws like the car didn't want to stop. I couldn't even do a burnout, without the car pulling away.

Stopping distance with OEM pads and brake system in nice shape is respectable... 60-0 is 146ft for the 95 Q45t, so give or take a few feet between the early ones and later ones.....

I am going to get a new master cylinder, just to make sure.

Here's this afternoon's test:

I went out to the road to the industrial park and the national weather service, by the local airport (There is almost NEVER any traffic, and a great place to do 0-60 and 60-0 runs .)

There is even an air traffic line painted on the road, with a good 1/4 mile of straigt level road afterwards. There is a good 1/2 mile either way of visibility, for squirrels, gofers, and state troopers.

I measured out 150 feet, 140 feet and 130 feet, then marked the street wit hsome black duct tape.

1st run:

I was a little nervous. Like the first time at the drag races. I went up a 1/4 mile, where there is a nice turn around, put on my seat belt, and punched it. When I got t o60, I held it there, to stabilize my speed. I crossed the white line, and jumped on the brakes...no ABS, no lock-up, just a big nose dive, and the car stopped. I was half way between the 140 and 150 mark. Hmmm, not much better than stock. I wonder if I got on the brakes hard enough?

2nd run:

I was a lot less nervous. Just another day at the track. I sped up to 60, and held my speed. It is a little down-hill decline right before the aerial mark. When I reached the mark, I jumped on the brakes. Straight and true to 0. I was a little shy of the 140 mark. A great improvement. By now the brakes were smelling great, and the car was hot and loose.

By the way, the ambient temperature was about 84 degrees, sunny and hot.

3rd and final run:

same as the second run, no ABS or lock-up. 138 feet. Nice run. The brakes were steemy.

I should have checked the rotor temp with my infrared sensor.

I will post some pictures of the calipers and rotors on the car as soon as Evie gets back with the car.

[elwesso]

you cant use a Z32 16/15 or whatever size MC on the 94+ Q because its a Nabco vs tokico deal... different designs.

[Jeff Williams]

Yeah, I think there is a problem with the fit of the piston or something. I will be sticking with OEM Q45 master cylinder. It seems to have the best Front/rear ratio. I am going to have my booster checked out as well. Lola still doesn't stop as well as Layla did. I wish I still had her, to compare. Why did I sell her?

With the wider rear tires, the more powerful rear brakes should be a perfect match.

I can't wait for my 9" wheels to show up. I alread have the 275/35/18's in the carport.

[elwesso]

Ok, i didnt know if you were saying the MC was bad..... or replacing for replacement sake----- which is how i do things

the Z32 has basically the same brake distribution as the Q, so the Q MC with Z32s all around should work as good as anything.. Trust me, i already did the calculations

If your using brand new pads, in my experience, ive noticed they have to break in for 200 miles or so before they get really bitey..

What pads are you using?

[Jeff Williams]

The pads came with the calipers.

The fronts have 2 sets. One is red with sharp edges, the others are brown, have tapered edges, and have a slot in the center. I am using the brown pads.

The rears are blue, and have some mileage on them.

I will get a new master cylinder, and run the test again.

I ruined another set of decals. I guess when I got the calipers hot, they expanded, and the "IN" in the middle of "INFINITI" is gone along with some black paint on the driver's side.

I will order another few sets of decals, and re-do them in a week or so.

I still owe you guys some pictures of them on the car.

[elwesso]

the rear pads are definitely OEM, thats how mine are...

[RobertsnewQ]

OEM lines with the bolt cut down works a lot better IMO....

please, please please don't do this.

I know it "works" but it won't work forever. The aluminum of the caliper body is not a sealing surface. If you use soft aluminum crush washers (not OEM copper) you might get away with it for a while but not forever. The washers will crush down (like they're supposed to do) but since the caliper is also aluminum they will damage the caliper and make later sealing impossible.

[elwesso]

Hmm, squeefoo did this and its been that way for a few years..... no problems...

[RobertsnewQ]

Yeah, I think there is a problem with the fit of the piston or something. I will be sticking with OEM Q45 master cylinder. It seems to have the best Front/rear ratio. I am going to have my booster checked out as well. Lola still doesn't stop as well as Layla did. I wish I still had her, to compare. Why did I sell her?

With the wider rear tires, the more powerful rear brakes should be a perfect match.

I can't wait for my 9" wheels to show up. I alread have the 275/35/18's in the carport.

Couple of things:1. the Z32 master cylinder comes in a version that matches the Q (tokico). The Nabco cyl won't work. You can use the Tokico just fine.

2. The Q45 proportioning is better. THe Z32 has a shorter wheelbase, therefore more forward weight transfer during braking. THis means less rear bias to stop rear lockup. On a Q, all else being equal, you'll get longer stopping distances because the rears won't be doing their share of the work.

3. If you're brave, you could rip the proportioning valve out of the 16/15 Tokico cylinder, get a couple of adapters and use a wilwood external prop valve. I've done this on other cars but it's always a bit of a job to set it up the first time.

4. The holy grail is the early 1990 Q45 MC. It's 16/15 w/the Q proportioning. It's marked 61U00 on the end. I haven't been able to find one. (Well, I found one on ebay but I was too slow with the buy it now.)

5. The Q45 stock rear brakes and the Z32 rear brakes have exactly the same effective brake torque . Do the calculations and you'll see what I mean. The Z rear brakes will not improve stopping distances until the Q brakes have heat faded, but they drastically improve pedal feel over stock and the vented rotors should take a lot longer to get hot.

[RobertsnewQ]

Hmm, squeefoo did this and its been that way for a few years..... no problems...

I know - and I'm sure you can get away with it if you never take those fittings off. That doesn't make it the right way, though. The right way is still with 10mmX1.0 inverted flare adapters.

I'm not willing to take the chance, and I'd reccommend others not either.

It's like the tire thing - You can drive the Q on 91Y rated tires no problem, right? But you never know how far the tire's safety margin is...

[Q45denver]

Robert, Great information. Do I just need to get a set of the adaptors for the front calipers and not the rears? Can I get these at NAPA? I assume R32 calipers are the same? Would stopping distances improve with wider tires? I have 255/50 on my 1990.

[elwesso]

Robert's right. however the rotors are vented and 2x as thick and its obviously a superior design... the piston sizes and rotor diameter are the same size...

the MCs are the same on the Q for 90-92 at least according to the parts book?

Too bad the 240 lines dont fit better on the Q

[RobertsnewQ]

Robert, Great information. Do I just need to get a set of the adaptors for the front calipers and not the rears? Can I get these at NAPA? I assume R32 calipers are the same? Would stopping distances improve with wider tires? I have 255/50 on my 1990.

You need adapters for both. You can get them from any Earl's dealer. Actually, here's what I used (call Earl's and they'll make them for you).

I don't remember the front's exact length but here's what I used for the rear:2x 10mmX1.0 inverted flare female to AN -3 adapters (inner end)2x 10mmX1.0 inverted flare male to AN -3 adapters (outer end)2x 10" long -3 braided teflon hose w/straight swaged ends

Front is similar but the hose is longer (I forget exactly how long), and the outer end is 90 degree -3, while the inner is straight -3.

I used two frame clips on the front but wasn't happy with the way they fit (I had to close up the tabs on the body slightly).

[RobertsnewQ]

Robert's right. however the rotors are vented and 2x as thick and its obviously a superior design... the piston sizes and rotor diameter are the same size...

the MCs are the same on the Q for 90-92 at least according to the parts book?

Too bad the 240 lines dont fit better on the Q

Yes, and don't forget that the rotors, calipers and pads are all cheaper than stock Infiniti parts.

Plus, since those calipers are used on lots of Mazda, Nissan, Subaru and Toyota truck models, you can get just about any pad compound that has ever been made!

As for the MC info, I found it on the Tokico website. I'll see if I can find the listing. Maybe it's only JDM?

[elwesso]

we were both wrong, its 90-91

[squeefoo]

Contrary to the rumors surrounding my death from brake failure...

Q45#1 was made in 12/89 w/MC P/N# 60U11..which was changed at the dealer on 4/93 for leaks...

Q45#2 was made in 1/90 w/MC P/N # 60U10

[RobertsnewQ]

Hmmm - the plot thickens.

Poppop (Tyrone) sent me a MC from a 1990 and it was the 60U11.

I was at the junkyard and pulled the MC from a 10/89 car. I didn't know the PN at that time, but when I got it home I realized it was the 60U11.

Crazy. So it must only be some.

Are both of those cars the same as far as HICAS/t or Active, etc.?

[squeefoo]

Both are standard/federal models.

Somewhere on here I saw that one from a Nissan truck fits w/a larger bore....too bad the search function is not Squeefoo friendly...

Illustrated brake parts manuals are hard to come by these days as well.

[elwesso]

Hmmm - the plot thickens.

Poppop (Tyrone) sent me a MC from a 1990 and it was the 60U11.

I was at the junkyard and pulled the MC from a 10/89 car. I didn't know the PN at that time, but when I got it home I realized it was the 60U11.

Crazy. So it must only be some.

Are both of those cars the same as far as HICAS/t or Active, etc.?

they didnt have any differentiaion in the parts book for HICAS/IRS/ACT.

[RobertsnewQ]

Both are standard/federal models.

Somewhere on here I saw that one from a Nissan truck fits w/a larger bore....too bad the search function is not Squeefoo friendly...

Illustrated brake parts manuals are hard to come by these days as well.

Interesting info about the truck MC. Although, that would have the least rear brake bias of any... I'll have to peek under the hoods of some Nissan trucks next time I'm at the junkyard.

[redmanfx]

Dude...!! Why not bright yellow or bright candy apple red on the calipers???????? Where's the adventure?> Where's the need for people to stare!!???? Well, it was still a very nice job ... Infiniti boy hee, hee, .....

I love what us Nico folks come up with!!! Keep it up Jeff!!

red

[3rd Q]

You need adapters for both. You can get them from any Earl's dealer. Actually, here's what I used (call Earl's and they'll make them for you).

I don't remember the front's exact length but here's what I used for the rear:2x 10mmX1.0 inverted flare female to AN -3 adapters (inner end)2x 10mmX1.0 inverted flare male to AN -3 adapters (outer end)2x 10" long -3 braided teflon hose w/straight swaged ends

Front is similar but the hose is longer (I forget exactly how long), and the outer end is 90 degree -3, while the inner is straight -3.

I used two frame clips on the front but wasn't happy with the way they fit (I had to close up the tabs on the body slightly).

Can't you just get the banjo bolt from a Nissan dealer that is designed to work w/ the Z32 front calipers? I'm installing the Q ss lines on the front when I put the Z32 calipers on.

Paul

[elwesso]

no bceause the Z32 doesnt use a banjo fitting, it uses an inverted flare.... kinda like the body side end fitting for the brake lines.