Z32 Brake Upgrade, complete! *PICS ADDED!*

[Falkdesigns]

I'm not suggesting he use competition pads. When I used to go on canyon runs in my Si the stock pads would heat up and fade to the point of completely useless. When I UPGRADED to AEM/Nissin high performance pads and Motul fluid, I NEVER experienced fade again and the initial bite was 10x better than OE.

My money will not be buying OE pads.

[Rex]

Falk I understand your POV about OE pads, but please don't compare the OE pads of a Civic, even an Si to those for 2 ton Q.

There is also a difference in the OE pads for the Q, there 1 part number that's much softer and dusty, wears out in about 12-15k with normal use, quicker if you're hard on them.

OE = Great - is not an absolute, but neither is - aftermarket = better.

[one ton garage]

Wes: What's the minimum offset that you have to have to clear those Z calipers?

The aspect of the wheel's fitment that you need to be most concerned about isn't the offset, but its disk. That will determine whether a wheel will clear the width of a large caliper or not. For example, you can take two wheels of the exact same width and offset, but different disks, and the lower disk wheel will not clear the calipers. Unfortunately, when buying lower-quality wheels, you are not given much choice in terms of disk sizing, so you're either lucky and get a wheel that happens to have a high enough disk to clear the brakes, or you will have to use spacers to push the wheel out from the calipers. With higher-quality, name-brand wheels you will usually be able to order wheels in different disks in addition to widths and offsets. This image shows the difference between Work's A and O disks in their Euroline DH model. The O disk is the lower of the two (note how the mounting pad is thinner, moving the spokes closer to the hub, which in turn decreases caliper width clearance).http://www.onetongarage.com/misc/work_disks.jpg

[elwesso]

I dont think ive given them enough time to break in because they seem to feeling a little better every day..

[DrewQ45]

Wess,

It's your preception thats getting better. I had the same problem when I changed all the rotors to drilled/slotted and put in steel braided lines. I kept the dealer pads and stock calipers

Initially I was very disappointed with the brake feel but I kept rebleeding them for a few days until there was absolutely no air. I don't think there was a monster improvement in stopping power which is what I was looking for but I eventually grew to realize that the braking is much improved.

Incidentally, there is a slight swishing or "zzzzz" noise when stopping with the drilled/slotted rotors...no doubt the sound of the brake pad passing over the holes/slots. I was wondering if anyone that has these has noticed a higher rate of pad wear?

[PoorManQ45]

The aspect of the wheel's fitment that you need to be most concerned about isn't the offset, but its disk. That will determine whether a wheel will clear the width of a large caliper or not. [/url]

The reason I asked is because it appears that the Z's caliper extends farther out towards the wheel spokes. I was wondering if there were any clearance issues with the spokes. I understand that the wheel itself has to be large enough in diameter.

[350zQ45a]

Wes you need to bed the breaks. Bedding I think it's called..

[AZhitman]

FYI - Wes had asked me earlier so... I re-bled mine last night on the 240.

I can now lock up the super-sticky front Azenis ST115's 245/40/17's with ease, and threshold braking is scary/impressive.

Modulation is pretty nice, I thnik I need more practice time as the feel is very different. But pedal pressure has returned to stock feel, plus some stiffness from the SS lines.

[elwesso]

Alright.. And the 240 MC is significantly less powerful than the stock Q45 one..

Ill rebleed possibly this afternoon and see what it does!

[one ton garage]

The reason I asked is because it appears that the Z's caliper extends farther out towards the wheel spokes. I was wondering if there were any clearance issues with the spokes. I understand that the wheel itself has to be large enough in diameter.

Hmmm... I think you misunderstood my post, as I was referring specifically about what you need to look for in a wheel to have it clear the 4 pot calipers, and it's not a wheel's offset, as the offset alone has no bearing on whether a wheel will clear the brakes or not (i.e. you can have a wheel with -50mm offset that sticks way out, but if it's got a low disk, the spokes will still intefere with the calipers). Diameter is acutally not an issue with the 4 pots, as you can easily fit them under a lot of 15" diameter wheels, so anything 16" and above is usually a non-issue.

[maxnix]

Most good wheel manufacturers will supply a downloadable template so disk rotor and caliper clearance can be measured.

[Nismo_Freak]

I'm going to stab the next person that talks about master cylinders.

GO out and DRIVE a car with the Z32 brakes, then come back and talk about it... seriously!

Wes, get some aftermarket pads. You will notice a good difference.

Fact: OEM Q45 pads are crap. I drove a Q45 that had about 400 lbs. ripped out of it compared to stock and it felt like I was driving a bus compared to my 240.

[PoorManQ45]

You have to remember that the Q45 weighs 2 tons, whereas the 240 weighs how much? 2500lbs?

It's pretty difficult to get a Q to handle like such a light weight vehicle. It's kind of like complaining that your Ford Dually doesn't handle like a miata

[elwesso]

Alright I bled the brakes again, using those one man bleeder kits from advance... TONS of air came out! So im glad i got that taken care of...

Brakes are now about as good as I could see it.. ABS comes on, and its DEFINITELY better than stokc... still not as bitey and responsive as i want, but definitely good.....

Id recommend this to anyone, great upgrade for the money!

[elwesso]

Like alan said, OEM pads are fade city... I did about 6 60+ - 0 stops and by the end it had about lost everything...

Thats my next upgrade.....

[one ton garage]

I'm going to stab the next person that talks about master cylinders.

GO out and DRIVE a car with the Z32 brakes, then come back and talk about it... seriously!

Wes, get some aftermarket pads. You will notice a good difference.

Fact: OEM Q45 pads are crap. I drove a Q45 that had about 400 lbs. ripped out of it compared to stock and it felt like I was driving a bus compared to my 240.

Also, drive a Z32 with new pads and rotors and a well-bled brake system, then drive a 240SX or Q45 with same-size calipers with the same make rotors and pads and fluid, also well-bled, and you will notice a difference also (again, especially if you are critical about slight discrepencies in feel). You never HAVE to replace your master cyl to gain an improvement in braking over the sliding calipers, especially since chances are, when you swap the brakes you're also swapping in newer rotors and pads and lines and fluid, so of course you're already going to augment your braking over your existing setup... but you can not discount the fact that ultimately upgrading your master cyl will also net you the best setup in terms of feel.

[squeefoo]

... TONS of air came out! So im glad i got that taken care of...!

Whew! I knew it.

... OEM pads are fade city... by the end it had about lost everything...

I've been wondering what pads to put on too, for a little more bite.You might try some heat sink grease/compound from the rotor hats to the rims. To pull the heat to the rims.

I'd recommend this to anyone, great upgrade for the money!

Another WHEW ! Thought I was losing all credibility.

SEE !

Next: brake pedal and pushrod adjustment.

[elwesso]

Whew! I knew it.

I've been wondering what pads to put on too, for a little more bite.You might try some heat sink grease/compound from the rotor hats to the rims. To pull the heat to the rims.

Another WHEW ! Thought I was losing all credibility.

SEE !

Next: brake pedal and pushrod adjustment.

I think i need to rebleed again because the brakes are about where they were.. They were good for a while, then i violated them big time, and theyre not as good anymore.. Im wondering if i glazed the pads... The guy said the fronts were OEM pads but im not sure about that... They could have been POS pads, as they didnt have the "burger" or sumitomo on the back of the pads like the rears did.....

I think im going to try and find a Z32 MC and see how that works......

[PoorManQ45]

Arn't you supposed to "bed" them before you go stomping on them?

[elwesso]

I did, at least I think...

Someone told me to do a 40 to almost 0, then a 60 to almost 0, then a 80 to almost 0

I did that, what else is ther?

[Jeff Williams]

That is about right. I usually progressively apply the brakes harder over about 5 to 10 "near stops". By the time I am done bedding them, they stink, and smoke is rising from the pads. It takes about 15 minutes of highway driving, to cool them down.

I have 40,000 miles on Layla's rotors, with no vibration or problems. Of course, they are slotted and drilled.

Wes, keep bleeding those pigs! Get some "real" brake pads.

I am just about done with my 'Vette personalization mods, and will be jumping on the Z32 calipers next week. I will do som before tests with a G-tech, to compare to afterwards. Of course the upgrade will include SS lines, cross drilled/slotted rotors, and DOT4 fluid, but who is going to do this upgrade without doing these same enhancements?

[911/Q45]

Just to rain on the parade, if you keep getting soft brakes after previously bleeding them hard, you probably have a leak in the system. Check some of your problem line connections.

[PoorManQ45]

If that's the case wouldn't the pedal sink to the flow?

[Rex]

If that's the case wouldn't the pedal sink to the flow?

Assuming you meant "floor"

Depends on where and how big the leak is. A leak above the fluid line in the reservior would allow air to slowly enter/exit the system with each pressurization (application of the brakes) de-pressurization, softening the brake pedal. Or a very small leak could allow tiny amounts of fluid to escape the system during heavy braking and as the amount of fluid "leaked" increases the pdeal could "soften".

Both are rather unlikely, but possible.

Also as the fluid and systems is allowed more time to cool (after use), the air will be easier to remove.

[PoorManQ45]

Hmm... It's possible that when Wes installed the new brake lines one of the fittings didn't seal completely

[elwesso]

I dont think i have a leak anywhere... Ill check though..

Im keeping my eyes out for a Z32 MC.. Seems best to have the MC made for the brakes.....

Jeff its best ot get the valvoline synpower fluid, thats about the best money can buy OTC...

[Falkdesigns]

As I'd said from the begining, now others backed it, there are plenty of pads that are far superior to OE.

Wes, if you want the best fluid, Motul RBF 600 has a 600 degree boiling temp, costs about 12 a quart.

The proper "bedding" process, at least according to Brembo instructions (from my memory, so I may be a tad off):

Accelerate to about 50, slow to 10 (not a hard stop, but firm), repeat about 7-10 times. Do this several more times, but now a bit harder stops, then drive for around 10 minutes with as little braking as possible. Brakes are now properly bedded.

While in my quest for info, I found Brembo OE rotors on Tirerack for $34 each, fronts. Yesssss.

[elwesso]

Ok I just looked up some infomraiton that is interesting..

We all know the skyline brakes are obviously an upgrade... However, in regards to the master cylinder, it may not be necessary to upgrade.

I got a hold of an R32 GTR manual, and I checked the specs... The brakes are exactly the same as the Z except they are 32mm wide instead of 30mm, same cylinder bore diameter and so forth...

Further searching indicated that the Z32 used a 1.25in master cylinder. The Q45 uses a 1.0in master..... What was interesting, is that the R32 uses a 1.00 in master cylinder. so if they put this MC on the Skyline, the cream of the crop of nissan, its obviously going to be the best MC for the brakes... still its uncertain why im not getting the same results......

[911/Q45]

My Q master cylinder has worked flawlessly with my Skyline brakes for 4 years and 3 sets of pads.

[elwesso]

Can you tellme how the pedal feel is compared to stock???