Z32 Brake Upgrade, complete! *PICS ADDED!*

[elwesso]

Before you picture troll, i will post pictures tonight when I get back home.

As a few of you know this was the weekend that I set aside to do my brakes. IT was becoming unbearable how bad things were.... I didnt take a picture of it, but you could see where the pad was being eaten alive.... You could see and feel in the rear rotor where it was being scraped...

Anyway, heres my parts list.

4 Brembo blanks (brand new)Z32 30mm iron calipersOEM pads1 big and 1 small bottle of valvoline synpower brake fluidCaliper greaseBraided SS Z32 240 conversion linesSpeed bleeders

So i got up extra early yesterday to get started. Started with the rear, and everything went smoothly... The hard line fittings are on tight and after some trials, I went right to vicegrips to that, with a very brisk blow, and then they came right off... The rear conversion lines are the same as the Q45 lines except with a shorter banjo bolt... They use a banjo fitting but the seat of the bolt has the inverted flare...

An important step here is the bolts are just ever so slightly too long and mine leaked. That said, if you use 3 copper washers (one on the bolt head side, and 2 on the caliper side) the bolt wont bottom out and leak.... I broke oneof the banjo bolts and had to make a new one out of the Q ones....

Remember to orient so that the bleeder is on the TOP... I was reading about this last night and its something thats very easy to overlook, and can cause woes when trying to bleed your brakes... Theres no difference left ot right except where the bleeder is.!!!

That being said, theres really nothing special about the rear brakes, everything went right on and everything was as smooth as buttuh. Be sure to use plenty of grease, at autozone they have little packets for .99, and I still had some left over.. Grease everything, wherever the pad contacts something.......

Now on to the fronts. This is where a little bit of skill is required. Everything came off just fine. My pads were replaced at exactly the same time and the front pads still have a lot of life left (say over 50%)....

Heres where the modding has to come in. Some people suggested removing that heat sheild, but i didnt see an easy way to do that. I decided to just cut mine. Youll see where it sort of curves around and theres a little tab. I just cut that so it was flat and it worked perfect, with plenty of clearance on both sides....

The front lines have the goofy flared fittings, which really, IMHO, make more sense than those banjo fittings... I think that if the hole on the bolt isnt perfectly lined up with the banjo then it wont be optimal.... Whatever the case is, there isnt QUITE enough room. When the car is unladen, and you turn lock to lock the line bunches a little, however, not a problem when you have the car under weight.

To accomodate this and make sure things fit right, i put my jack under each control arm to simulate it being laden. From there you can align the fitting....

So the results.... THe car is definitely a little smoother overall (from the 5 miles ive driven it thus far), however, i dont think ive bled them right, the pedal is still very mushy.. Im going to have my mechanic rebleed them this week when the car goes in for an oil change.... Ive been putting off my oil change and this will give me some motivation to do that.... Thus, i wont really say what its like until its working right. From what Squeefoo was telling me, its VERY touchy....

Overall, this was definitely a good mod to do if you have 17in wheels or more (for clearance)... I did the math, and doing this upgrade will cost about as much (slightly less) as rehabbing your Q45 brakes, and after that, will be substantially cheaper as the brembo blanks are about 1/2 price of what OEM rotors are.... Im thinking that with the double thickness in the rear and 2mm extra in the front that has to make things last longer.... THese are the brakes that were meant for the car, and had it not been for wheel clearance issues, i think nissan would have used these to begin with!

[350zQ45a]

Don't forget to break them in, what is it calle bedding? I can never remember

[Jeff Williams]

Congrats, Wes!

Iam looking forward to the pics, and more test results.

[elwesso]

I think right now, the brakes are working at less than 50% capacity. Today after a drive I could touch the rotors.... granted i didnt flog them but theyre hardly getting warmed up at all!

Ill post pics tomorrow, didnt really document it as well as i should have.. Thats where Jeff comes in

[squeefoo]

I forgot to mention the previous owner put on a brand new (OEM) master cyl. hopefully when you get the air out they will feel just as good.

On GM's you can turn the booster pushrod longer and cause the brakes to engage a little faster, by removing the mechanical play. I don't know if this can be done on a Q since I haven't had to take my master off. Be very, very careful if you try this since it can make the brakes so touchy an unbelted passenger can hit the windshield (I know !!)

If you try this try only a quarter turn at a time Please! As I look through the FSM I see an adjustment for the brake pedal as'sy which may help by removing some slop from the mechanical side of the system.

Whoops... just found a spec for the "output rod" on page BR- 14. (there is a short procedure) If you screw with this and make it too long the brakes will drag and overheat making them junk and boiling the fluid. DON'T do this and then drive somewhere, only where there is no traffic, and only until you have it exactly right, by trial and error can your brakes be considered roadworthy.

This is a fine tuning procedure only and cannot make up for worn pads, low fluid, or a worn out master cylinder. Everything on the brake system must be in like new working order.I hate lawyers

[elwesso]

Thanks for posting Squee, i was just going to email you asking how touchy they are.. When I press up until 50% they basically do nothing.....

I may try the booster adjustment assuming that bleeding doesnt fix it. but id rather not mess with this at all if I didnt ahve to.... I think it is the bleeding because my brakes were adequate before doing this, evne with worn pads......

[squeefoo]

Well now that I know what I'm looking for I may play with this myself since my brake ducting is taking so long to get here.

Wes I'm sure the problem is air, you can do it yourself... C'mon

Discovered this many years ago by accident when I swapped over a booster from one car to another and got the pushrods mixed up. Real headscratcher for awhile.

[elwesso]

The car is going in for an oil change anyway... Im sick of lugging (no pun intended) those big heavy wheels around...

They wont charge me, we've been doing business with them for over 50 years

Let me konw how the adjustment works.. How much you adjusted and stuff.

[sijoko]

The brakes will be mushy until you upgrade to the 300zx TT master cylinder. The symptom is caused by the increased volume of the front 4 piston calipers.

Once you get used to the softness of the brakes, it won't be a problem assuming that all the air is removed from the system.

-sijoko

[Bwana]

Before you picture troll, i will post pictures tonight when I get back home.

Ill post pics tomorrow, didnt really document it as well as i should have.. Thats where Jeff comes in

So... Pics Wes???

[elwesso]

The Z32 MC is less powerful than the Q45.. So why would "upgrading" the MC to a lesser MC be better?

[elwesso]

Just so everyone knows I have full size pics in my photo gallery

OK so lets get started... First off, I took my car in today (and coincidentlaly paid the most for an oil change I ever had, but I watched them do it so it was OK), and he didnt think the brakes needed bled, so i took his word for it. I think i broke in the pads today and I think that may have helped slightly (I smelled the brakes and saw smoke)

All my supplies strategically aligned to make it look pretty

Side by side of a Z caliper and Stock Q caliper



Stock rotor vs Z rotor (rear)



New front setup

I meant to get a pic of the front lines setup so i could get suggestions.. oh well

A few pics on the car, and seeing that wheel, next project is to restore these wonderfully crafted wheels!!

[img]http://nissaninfiniticlub.net/photopost ... ed.JPG[img]



While i have your attention, ill whore a couple pics of the ol girl

[elwesso]

Thus far, i think this mod wasnt really worth it.. It will be nice to have cheaper parts to replace, but thats about it... Had I known it would have come out like this I probably would have just replaced my stock pads.

[Rex]

Just so everyone knows I have full size pics in my photo gallery ...

Yeah, I did it, click 'em, enjoy .

[5seryan]

Im glad you whored it up. The car looks friggin great. I love the wheels. If i wasnt short on $$$ and didnt need a new fuel pump then i would try to get some new wheels that are pimpin like those.

[AZhitman]

Wes - I'm having the same issue with my Z brakes (granted, on my 240).

Pedal has about 1.5" of travel, and I can't lock 'em up (even though I should be able to easily).

Gonna re-bleed tomorrow.

Make sure you bleed 'em with the car running.

[elwesso]

Wes - I'm having the same issue with my Z brakes (granted, on my 240).

Pedal has about 1.5" of travel, and I can't lock 'em up (even though I should be able to easily).

Gonna re-bleed tomorrow.

Make sure you bleed 'em with the car running.

Did konw that was necessary.. LEt me know how that works for you and LMK... I have a day off tomorrow so id like to do it... post it up

[squeefoo]

Thus far, i think this mod wasnt really worth it.. It will be nice to have cheaper parts to replace, but thats about it... Had I known it would have come out like this I probably would have just replaced my stock pads.

Yo myne's be tyte like shyte.

[elwesso]

Squee, what pads are you using?

[maxnix]

Nice pictures and a good narrative. Thanks.

[elwesso]

I talked to someone a few nights ago and he siad my probelsm could be because im using OEM pads and not aftermarket, but tech always says that OEM is about as good as it gets???

opinions?

[maxnix]

Does this person think OEM pad is too hard, because that is certainly not the case? Keep bleeding until you are certain all air is out.

[squeefoo]

I bought my calipers "loaded" and just left whatever was on there for a '92 300ZXTT.

Y'know the pads with rat turds, floor sweepings, ETC. added to the friction compound.

Methinks there's still air in there...

Sure didn't take much for you to trash the whole idea, don't be such a quitter ! (normally isn't your style).

[Q45tech]

An interesting partial alternative is the oem J30 rear system [thicker vented rear rotor [same as oem diameter] still single piston caliper] that was used on 97-2001 Q. For sure lower pad and rotor temps than oem 90-96 rear assembly........more mass to sink the pad heat into.

[Falkdesigns]

Quote »OEM is about as good as it gets[/quote]Seriously need to get over that. OEM pads are meant to fit a manufacturing budget, be quiet, and as little dust as possible. OEM is ALWAYS a comprimise. Hawk, Axxis, Performance Friction, all make true "upgrade" pads. Pads, rotors and fluid is really all you need to seriously improve your braking. The set up looks great though!!! Do yourself a favor and get better pads, and bleed the system regardless of what that person said.

BTW, who has the best price on Brembo blanks? I'm doing my fronts in a few months (rears were done 3 months before I got the car).

[ddrumman]

Hey Wes,

Thanks for the write up.

I was kinda waiting to see how yours went before I started on mine.

I think I'll stick with OEM stuff untill I'm ready to do a complete overhaul.

D.

[one ton garage]

No matter how much bleeding and adjusting you do to your existing setup, you will never be able to completely eliminate that initial "mushy" feeling of the first part of the brake pedal's travel.... again, as someone mentioned, it's because of the disparity in the piston area between the oem brakes and the fixed pistons. The "mushiness" is more noticable if you are the type who is able to discern minor changes in the way your car feels (some people don't pay attention to stuff like that).

[maxnix]

Seriously need to get over that. OEM pads are meant to fit a manufacturing budget, be quiet, and as little dust as possible. OEM is ALWAYS a comprimise.

Actually, this is not true as to dust generation. The soft OEM pads generate a lot of dust because thay are optimized for cold stops.

Competition pads are usually harder and generate less pad dust, but also have a longer stopping distance when cold, i.e. - initial application.

All pads and rotors are a compromise. The appropriate question, is what are the design performance parameters?

[Q45tech]

Within a dollar or 2, all pads cost oem the same..........there is no magic secret brake pad compound every pad manufacturer knows exactly what everyone else uses. Competative analysis. Each has it's downsides and defects.

Oem have the advantage they ask each to supply test sets and test everybody's offering on a brake pad dynometer.......friction vs temperature and speed at application...........once they get what they want, the pad manufacturer agrees to meet the price point to sell a 100,000 sets.Ways to save money are cheap metal backing plate material, no shims, labor rates, grades of cashew shell dust.

Retail pricing has little to do with value, all about matching oem design criteria.

http://www.suscon.org/brakepad...5.pdf

% of Cu, Pb, Zn, Fe in various padshttp://www.city.palo-alto.ca.u...e.pdf

http://www.scielo.br/pdf/jbsmse/v26n1/a ... /t...1.pdf

Some background on the company that markets Power Stophttp://www.taglichbrothers.com...4.pdfhttp://www.bobbyarchermotorspo...2.pdfSome times I hide the gem:http://www.ornl.gov/~webworks/...6.pdfRemember ceramics are not optomized for >572F

[PoorManQ45]

Wes: What's the minimum offset that you have to have to clear those Z calipers?