z32 - 300zx Brake Upgrade Conversion

[lino]

Alright guys, I'm finally ready for my big-brake upgrade and since many members have been satisfied with the Z32 setup and the fact that it's easy to install and parts are affordable and available, it seems like that's going to be the route I take.

Calipers:Q1- I've read that the brake calipers were switched from aluminum to cast iron in 1993 in order to solve a warping issue. Is this true? Are the iron ones any better or worse?

Q2- If the price was right, are any of the rebuilt calipers, rebuilt with quality in mind? If so, which companies or brands and how do they compare to Nissan rebuilt?

Rotors and Pads:Which rotors and pads are recommended for everyday street use and almost no abuse?

[elwesso]

For the calipers, either are gonna be OK... Ive installed aluminum ones and irons ones on Q45s and I dont think theres much difference.... Some people are concerned about the weight, but that doesnt matter IMO... The iron calipers dont weight much more than the stock calipers, and the aluminum dont weigh that much less.... So get whichever ones you want, it really doesnt matter... I got the iron calipers because thats what I was able to get my hands on at the time, and others get the aluminum ones for the same reason.

AS far as rebuilt ones, most of the time Z calipers dont need rebuilt. I took mine (which had over 100k on them) and put them rihgt on my car... They didnt leak, the pistons/boots looked clean so I didnt bother. As long as it doesnt look like the calipers have been leaking around the pistons, then dont really worry about it... Plus, if you want to rebuild them later, just do it yourself... You just blow the pistons out and put in new seals, its easy...

I know in my article I recommended speedbleeders, and I dont recommend them... I got them, and I think theyre totally stupid... You can bleed your brakes just as good with the regular bleeders and a one man bleeder kit (bottle and a hose)..... my speed bleeders are leaking a tiny bit, and I was stupid enough to throw away the stock ones!!!

For rotors and pads, get yourself a set of brembo blanks (OEM quality at about half the price)... OEM pads are going to be sufficient.... theyll stop as good as any pad pretty much on one 80-0 panic stop [, but will be pretty faded after that (until you let them cool down)...

I encourage you to index your rotors while you have them off so they stay vibration free longer!

[Q45tech]

Brake rotor and pad temperature is a function of rotor weight and the oem and 300zxtt rotors weigh almost exactly the same on the front............however 30mm is better than 28mm in increasing longevity.

All in all don't expect much difference between the two systems. Always use the iron calipers to maximize.

Careful some of the early aluminum were 26mm which would be worse than oem 28mm Q system.

[lino]

I encourage you to index your rotors while you have them off so they stay vibration free longer!

What do you mean index the rotors?

[elwesso]

Brake rotor and pad temperature is a function of rotor weight and the oem and 300zxtt rotors weigh almost exactly the same on the front............however 30mm is better than 28mm in increasing longevity.

All in all don't expect much difference between the two systems. Always use the iron calipers to maximize.

Careful some of the early aluminum were 26mm which would be worse than oem 28mm Q system.

main reason I like the Z setup is they have some more clamping force in the front, but MAINLY because everything is easier to get, more options, and its cheaper.

[nismofly]

make sure you get the 30mm's because rotors for the 26's are becoming hard to find

also they switched from aluminum to iron in 91, simply for cost reasons...if you ever get hot enough to warp an aluminum caliper youve got a problem

z32 NA 90: 26mm alumz32 TT 90: 30mm alum

z32 TT and NA 91-96: 30mm iron

[Q45tech]

"I like the Z setup is they have some more clamping force in the front" ???????????????

Why would an equal diameter rotor have more clamping force?4 small [non floating] pistons have the same area [clamping force] as 2 large floating caliper.

Agreed 4 piston fixed may have a more even side to side clamping force vs a 2 piston floating caliper.

Floating tend to extert a higher % on the inside pads [110%] than outside [90%] but the total force is the same........................function of foot force on pedal, master cylinder, rotor diameter, and the Total piston volume. Floating tend to bend and shift from the 100% true perpendicular thus the angular change in the outside

If the 4 piston calipers have more volume then the pedal will require more movement [distance] to exert the same force.

OEM: 40 pounds on pedal grows to 924 psi [divided amongst the square inch area of how ever many pistons are in the caliper] on front when pedal is depresses 3".

[elwesso]

Tech

Im sure this thread will bring back memories for you, it did for me.

zerothread?id=104693

Check this out, and verify that the information in there is correct... mainly the last post by NismoFreak on the 1st page.

[Q45tech]

Unfortunately it doesn't work the same way as described in that post:

One must use equal designs APPLES TO APPLES for that post to be correct.

Because floating calipers are different from fixed caliper. With floating calipers you have mathematically another imaginary piston THE OTHER SIDE of the vise [clamp caliper] so you multiply the EFFECTIVE area by 2

Z32 - 4 x 1.5925 diameter pistons - total area = 10.009Q45 - 2 x 1.6850 diameter pistons - total area = 5.2909

The Q 5.2909 becomes [x 2] ~~= 10.598 now it is not 100% x2 but 90% x2 for sure so 5.209 x 1.8 >=9.3762 so somewhere between 9.4 and 10.6.

Averaging the possible errors say they are exactly the same in the real world.

Now wider pads has to do with swept area and that will lower the peak pad temperatures.

But the important thing is that 4 piston calipers exert EQUAL forces on all the pads surfaces so you don't get hotter inside vs outside pads as with floating units whether 10% [say 60-90F hotter inside [vs 60-90F colder outside] pads is meaningful in all situations must be individually evaluated.

It does show up as faster inside pad wear vs outside!

It is impossible to read, review, or CORRECT every poster........

[Jeff Williams]

Another issue not metioned in the above posts, is that the rear rotor on the Z32 set-up is a vented rotor, rather than the solid one. This should reduce the speed in which it warps.

Not mentioned, is the surface area of the pads of the Z32 and G50 pads. I recall the Z32 pads have less surface area on the front, but more on the rear.

My car stopped faster and shorter after I did the upgrade (about 6 feet average), but I also went to DOT4 fluid and stainless steel brake lines.

I like the looks of the bigger calipers, and they look great when you grind off the NISSAN and put an INFINITI sticker on them. You could even go with a NICO sticker, if so inclined.

Give Auto Zone and the other parts places a call, before you buy used junk off of eBay. I think you can get completely rebuilt calipers almost as cheap as some of those on eBay.

Buy the non-slotted and non-drilled rotors, if you don't want to hear them when you stop.

Also, if you go with stainless steel lines, buy the 240 conversion lines.

I love the speedbleeders, it took me about 15 minutes to completely flush the brake system twice.

I bought clear DOT4 fluid from NAPA, then a can of ATE Super Blue DOT4 fluid so I knew when the system had been flushed completely.

[lino]

Thank you everyone for all of your posts. I forgot to ask something else. Are the stock Q45 brake rotors known to warp? My local dealer mentioned that they used to sell Stillen drilled rotors to all of their Q customers back in the day.

What can one expect for rotor and pad life expectancy comparing the Z32 upgrade vs Q45 original setup?

[Q45tech]

IN the beginning when a Q came with Michelin XGTV Sport tires and U90 series pads ...................a frisky driver could warp the rotors in 4-6,000 miles.

The 300zx was no better they warped severely and fast thus the change to iron calipers to hold more and heat up slower. Added air ducts clipped omn tension rods.

To reduce the warping Nissan came up with less agressive pads the U90 now is U91 and U93 were available to woman real estate agents who rode the brakes.

It is easy to calculate how much a rotor needs to weigh to allow X AMOUNT of temperature increase.

You have a 4000 pound Q going 60 mph A 300zx weighs 3533 pounds 12% lighter than Q.............that should make one pause.

If I was trying to reduce rotor temperature I would want a MUCH heavier rotor than the Q or 300zx unit it is very light compared to what is used on BMW. MB, Audi, or Lexus.................even the new M45 is light for extreme durability.

However you would have to double the rotor weight to halve the rise, so 10% heavier is only a 10% decrease.

[elwesso]

rotor and pad life are going to be very similar... The front rotors are going to (in theory) stay true a little bit longer but not by much....

The Q rotors are known to warp because they are a pretty skinny rotor. Youll notice on other cars of similar weight they either use a pad with less frictional coefficient or they have a thicker rotor (more mass)...

[lino]

Is this considered normal pricing in the US or is it a good deal?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...ZWDVW

[elwesso]

Ripoff... AC delco!! HA!!! They make parts for america cars and thats their specialty, im not sure how trustworthy they are with japanese parts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

What he says about the rotors- disregard.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

Pretty reasonable deal for all 4http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...wItem

Up in canada, you can get the calipers from the skyline... the brakes except the GTR are the same as the Z32...

For a pricing guide, heres what youll be looking at. This is all based on the current market in the US..

good price for the front calipers is somewhere in the neighborhood of 200ish assuming that all the clips are there... Pads dont matter, since youll want to put fresh ones in. Rear calipers arent usually worth too much, $100 is about the max id pay for some rear calipers unless they cam with something special (rotors, fresh pads, etc)

you could go with a used rotor if you wanted, and just have it resurfaced before you put it on. Or get brembo blanks for like $40/pop...

Pads are gonna run you baout $80 for all 4 corners...

add in $100 for a set of 240sx conversion lines if you dont want to use the stock lines (and cut the banjo bolt down).

So figure about (in summary): 350 for calipers, 200 for rotors, 80 for pads, and $100 for lines if thats the route you want to go....

[PITCH]

Do you need a custom fabbed caliper bracket to fit the Z32 Calipers onto the Q? Do all Q's share the same brake set up? Meaning would the Z32's bolt up to a 97-2001 Q?

Anyone try to bolt on the rear Z32?

[elwesso]

Do you need a custom fabbed caliper bracket to fit the Z32 Calipers onto the Q? Do all Q's share the same brake set up? Meaning would the Z32's bolt up to a 97-2001 Q?

Anyone try to bolt on the rear Z32?

Yes, theyll bolt on to the 97-01 Q too... The rears will bolt on too.

[PopPop]

These work great for me! Stillen Front Rotors and Oem Calipers and vented shims with Akebono Pro-Acts with Goodridge G-Stop SS Lines. Full system flush and using Valvoline DOT4 Fluid. Master Cylinder was replaced and bench bleed prior to install.
Modified by PopPop at 5:05 PM 11/6/2006

[Fenvy]

I dont know about the Q

but the z32 rear use drum type ebrake assembly and is different from 240sx.

not sure if Q is drum too or not but this is something you need to look into. Or someone else can enlighten

[elwesso]

the Q uses the drum brakes like the Z..

Good rule of thumb is that the Q45 stuff is pretty much the same as the twin turbo Z stuff, as far as interchangeability and design intent.

[PopPop]

These work great for me! Stillen Front Rotors and Oem Calipers and vented shims with Akebono Pro-Acts with Goodridge G-Stop SS Lines. Full system flush and using Valvoline DOT4 Fluid. Master Cylinder was replaced and bench bleed prior to install.

Modified by PopPop at 5:05 PM 11/6/2006

The rears are drilled units with OEM Calipers and Akebono Pro-Acts with Goodridge G-Stops SS Brakelines.

[Fenvy]

the Q uses the drum brakes like the Z..

Good rule of thumb is that the Q45 stuff is pretty much the same as the twin turbo Z stuff, as far as interchangeability and design intent.

so all 3 gen 90-96, 97-01, 02-06 Q all use drum for the rear? just curious

so instead of paying a fortune for z32 ebrake assembly (I sold 2 sets for 180$ each on ebay), one can buy q45 rear brake assembly and mate with a z32 rear?

[elwesso]

90-01 anyway, not sure about the F50 but im sure theyd work....

The Q45 spindles has the bigger wheel bearing, like the twin turbo Z... I dont know if you cna swap the Z ebrake onto the 240 spindles... but if you can, the Q45 and Z Ebrakes are exactly the same, as the rotor hats have the same I.D.