YAOQ (Yet Another Oil Question) for Fred (palmerwmd)

[szh]

Hi, Fred.

I just saw this Amsoil 5W-40 synthetic information on their web site. How do you think it compares to Mobil 1 0W-40?

Amsoil 5W-40 Info

Z

[Falkdesigns]

Damnit I've said it in the other oil posts, but I don't think people believe me. Amsoil > ALL OTHER OILS. It's more money, but it's the best. Period. Amsoil was the first 100% syn oil on the market. Mobil 1 is years behind on development (and they were caught selling Mobil 1 syn which was actually a blend with Dino oil). I don't work for Amsoil, but I know the quality of their product since I've used it for years. I sent a sample for analysis after 1 year in my 2000 Civic Si which had been red-lined every day (8k rpm), taken to about 4 auto-X's and on numerous 2 hour+ So Cali mountain runs. Only trace amounts of any substances were in it and it was declared "Oil suitable for continued use". That's after 1 year of very hard driving. 3 weeks ago, I did the Amsoil motor flush (add to oil and set at high idle, like 2-3k for about 30 minutes, drain and fill with oil) and went with the Amsoil SAE 5/30. To see an Amsoil and Mobil 1 comparison click the link Amsoil Vs. Mobil 1

[1992Q45A]

Amsoil continually repeats their product is the best oil out. They have test results on their website, which seem to indicate this.

[PalmerWMD]

A 5w-40 will always be a more stable oil than a 0w-40 assumijng the base oils are of equal quality.

The Mobil1 0w-40 is a great oil and meets great specs which is why even a long.AMSOIL uses a similiae quality oil as Mobil1 , hence the 5w-40 will be a good choice especially if longer drains are desired.

Fred..

[szh]

Damnit I've said it in the other oil posts, but I don't think people believe me. Amsoil > ALL OTHER OILS. It's more money, but it's the best. Period. Amsoil was the first 100% syn oil on the market. Mobil 1 is years behind on development (and they were caught selling Mobil 1 syn which was actually a blend with Dino oil). I don't work for Amsoil, but I know the quality of their product since I've used it for years. I sent a sample for analysis after 1 year in my 2000 Civic Si which had been red-lined every day (8k rpm), taken to about 4 auto-X's and on numerous 2 hour+ So Cali mountain runs. Only trace amounts of any substances were in it and it was declared "Oil suitable for continued use". That's after 1 year of very hard driving. 3 weeks ago, I did the Amsoil motor flush (add to oil and set at high idle, like 2-3k for about 30 minutes, drain and fill with oil) and went with the Amsoil SAE 5/30. To see an Amsoil and Mobil 1 comparison click the link Amsoil Vs. Mobil 1

Dont' be too mad! I definitely saw your other posts and read through them ... just wanted Fred's opinion too!

FWIW, I am currently using Mobil 1 0W-40 in my M45 and will be doing an oil change for both it and my wife's Acura 2.2CL in the next month or so, and was wondering whether the Amsoil 5W-40 would be better. The only minor difficulty is that I have found the Mobil 1 in stores here near me, but not the Amsoil. Are there any web-store sources for it (besides their own web site, that is)?

Z

[nuQ]

after checking out the amsoil website, they really play up extended oil changes. i completely agree w/ 90 day changes with a car doing "normal" miles (in and around 3k miles). my question for the experts,,,,if i'm going, more or less, around 1000 miles total in a 90 day period (put the vast majority of my driving hours in a work vehicle---Q IS FOR FUN, ONLY!), and use a top notch synthetic (currently mobil 1 0w-40), is it really neccessary to follow the 90 day change routine?????

[Q45tech]

If I had to buy another Q I would want documented oil/filter changes at [90 days 3,750 miles][no cheating] with conventional oils.I would buy this car over one with synthetics of any brand that were changed at 7500 miles.

For example new G35 oil analysis show Mobil 1 10w-30 just on acceptable range at 6000 miles. Obviously different bearings, cam materials will degrade at different rates with different oils.

The newer cost cutting designs don't seem to be as robust as the old 90-01 Q engines or the 3.0 liter . Maybe I'm wrong all I can do is review some of the Inet published oil test.

Once you use all the HP tricks you are left with reducing bearing width as a quick but dirty way of boosting 10 HP........they already did the light springs and piston rings.

Lots really depends on how stressful the engines are driven.......G35 coupe 6mt? vs G35 sedan with automatic.

Only time will tell.

[Falkdesigns]

It's cool! Didn't mean to overreact there. That's the only problem is that it can be hard to get. Usually you get it from independant dealers, I get it at the garage I use, it's how I found the garage in the first place and turns out to be the best garage I've ever used. Racing Beat sell it (the first place I ever even heard of it, back in my RX-7 days), Super Autobacs in Stanton CA have it at a very good price, and like you said, you can get it off the Amsoil web-site.

Honestly it's a better product than Mobil 1 (I know Mobil 1 is good) and you can go with extended oil change intervals. Trust me when I say, I'm a total skeptic on this stuff, but after seeing my results from Oil Anylyzers, INC (nothing to do with Amsoil) and all the other independent oil comparisons, I was convinced and have never looked back.

[szh]

I plan to continue changing every 3750 miles for sure - even with the synthetic - that has been my norm (the mileage, that is) for every Infiniti product I have owned (from my 1991 Q onwards!)

So, Dennis, your criteria is that dino changes at 3750 is better than synthetic changes at 7500 ... but ... is synthetic changes at 3750 better than dino changes at 3750?

FWIW, for my wife's Acura, I did the oil changes every 7500 miles, but am now going to do every 3750 miles there too.

Z

[qship96]

I have had great luck changing mobil 1 every 90 days{ usually 5,000 miles} on my previous 94 g20 since new,car burned zero oil at 155,000 miles when i sold it. current q gets Redline 10w-30 with 60u00 filter every 90 days{usually 5000-6000 miles} and has 138,000 miles and uses no oil and runs like new!alot depends on how hard you are on your car-highway or city miles? easy on the gas when cold,etc-and air filter change frequency- my redline is a nice golden color at 6,000 mile change this afternoon.

[Falkdesigns]

Your wasting oil. Amsoil (and other PREMIUM syn oils) do NOT break down like dino oil, which is why you don't need to change it as often. My dads BMW has BMW Syn and BMW recomends oil changes once a year. If you take your car in to BMW and request an oil change in less time, they won't do it. This goes for BMW's entire auto line-up. 3k oil changes were from a time when everyone used dino oils which DO break down.

I work for a 40 year old racing company and we supply our products to about 50% of NASCAR teams and about 90% of NHRA teams as well as teams in just about every other series (not F1 though). We get all kinds of stuff to test out, including lot's of stuff from Redline since they are a big supplier in NHRA. We also have a motorcross division and many of the teams, including Honda Factory, are now running Amsoil. I have nothing to gain by talking about Amsoil, just wanted to share my knowledge about what I KNOW is the best in the industry. I've seen internals of motors that had over 100k on them which had run Amsoil and the parts looked nearly new. I've seen oil analysis on a Dodge Cummins Deisel motor that had been running the same oil for 2 years (it did have the 2 filter bypass system on it)!

[szh]

Your wasting oil. Amsoil (and other PREMIUM syn oils) do NOT break down like dino oil, which is why you don't need to change it as often.

This is like religion - we will all have our opinions, etc.! I have read an oil book from an industry expert (see my other post on this) who also believes that the 3000 mile limit is overkill. He has a methodical way of calculating the "right" mileage to change the oil at ... when I applied it to my driving conditions, it worked out to "change every 11,000 miles". Of course, I chose to disbelieve him. (Religion, remember?)

FWIW, changing the oil every 3750 miles is not a big financial deal for me, fortunately. If it helps preserve the engine and prevent early wear and tear, so be it! "Cheap insurance" is my logic here.

Z

[Falkdesigns]

I hear ya. I just get amped up about stuff I believe passionately about and I've seen first hand results with this stuff.

[szh]

I hear ya. I just get amped up about stuff I believe passionately about and I've seen first hand results with this stuff.

Good info, thanks! I am definitely going to try the new Amsoil 5W-40 on these next two oil changes for my cars.

Z

[HeavyDuty]

Not to perpetuate the aggravation, but when have I shyed away from that anyway?

I started using Mobil1 in my retired 88 FlaHwyPatrol Mustang SS when I bought it in 91 with 65k miles.

Yes, they were well maintained & I got a nice one, but......

I usually changed the oil about every 5k miles with Mobil1 & when I removed the heads in 02 or 03 to install new heads, intake, etc., there was no perceptible wear in the cylinders, no ridge in the top, no sludge in the lifter valley, etc.

That was after 60k more miles at 1320 feet at a time.

I like Amsoil too, and Redline, but I choose Mobil1 because of their distribution. If I find myself in Pahokee, Florida (a real place) and I need a quart, I can find it anywhere.

2 cents

[nuQ]

so,,,,,,,,,,does time have anything to do with mileage??????? will a synthetic with very little mileage break down from just being in an engine for 6 months??????

if i'm not getting anywhere near 2k miles between changes, should i still be following the 90 days program?????? if i'm using top synthetic oil (mobil1/amsoil), with my mileage, will twice a year be ok???? my oil is always golden when changed and burns zero!

[szh]

A darn good question, nuQ. On my wife's Acura, I have a similar question/concern/confusion. She drives very few miles (car is now at 42k miles after 8 years!) so I have been doing the oil changes at 3750 miles even though it may have been well over 90 days. The oil still looked good (color) every time - even though I was not using synthetic (just going to switch to it).

Z

EDIT: I meant 3750 miles recently - in the past, I changed at 7500 miles for the Acura.

[szh]

On a related note, if I buy oil in bulk to get it at a lower cost, is there a shelf life issue? I.e., if I don't use it for a year or more, does oil (whether dino or synthetic) go "bad" in any way?

Z

[1992Q45A]

I totally concur on the BMW statement. My mom has a 2k4 325i she bought new, and they take care of all scheduled maintenances (including oil changes)

They recommend going up to 10,000 miles between the first oil change. It has some sort of calculator which tells you when to changed, based on driving. I dunno how accurate is, but since the car is covered by warranty, and they pay for everything, may as well change the oil when they say.

I sure wouldn't go 12 months between oil changes on an M3 though

[natsoundup]

My oil on the 90 has been changed at 3k or 90 days for the last 11 years.... it doesn't burn a drop....and doesn't get very dirty in that time frame.

I also attribute the changes and a more moderate climate to having the original chain guides.

Have always used dino oil...and usually get it changed at Wal-Mart or one of those other places that people hate.

[Falkdesigns]

I totally concur on the BMW statement. My mom has a 2k4 325i she bought new, and they take care of all scheduled maintenances (including oil changes)

They recommend going up to 10,000 miles between the first oil change.

Exactly. If a company like BMW will warranty their cars with this guideline, then obviously the days of 3k oil changes are going away. The dino oil industry doesn't want that though! They'll be loosing money if people realise they don't need to change their oil every 3k (if they use prem. Syn of course).

As I said above, my oil came back from analysis after a YEAR in a car which got hammered WAY harder than I'll ever drive the Q, that's enough for me.

Szhosain: Shelf life should be virtually indefinite.

[1992Q45A]

Falk,

I wonder how accurate their warning system is for changing oil. They instructed my mom to totally rely on this. It will tell you when the oil needs to be changed. It must be more intelligent then a normal laggy gauge...

[Falkdesigns]

It must be pretty acurate. BMW has always had pretty advanced electronics. They have always been my favorite car company too, along with Porsche (and now, Infiniti has won my love and admiration).

[1992Q45A]

I totally agree. That 325i is no muscle car, but the way it just keeps on accelrating (once you have it going) is really amazing. BMW has always done so much with little hp.. The old E36 M3 was amazingly fast for only having 240 hp. I love bmw..

Watch out, lots of people on this forum love to take shots at the blue propeller

[1992Q45A]

It definetely must be advanced. No car company profits from having to replace engines on warranty.

I think it's more of a measurement system then a warning gauge. It is constantly measuring the oil and probably the quality of the oil. It adjusts based on how hard you drive.. It functions like a how many miles left for how much fuel you have type of system..

Good stuff, and I LOVE those doors. I also love what the dash is made out of.. Nice rubbery type surface. Looks very money $$$ much better then the G35s hard plastic..

Of course, in terms of pricing a 325i competes with a G35, and the G35 in terms of performance is the all around champ.. That's why it always wins in comparos.. You have to get the 330i to come close to a G, and the 330 is more expensive... Although the quality is there for the additional funds

[maxnix]

So, Dennis, your criteria is that dino changes at 3750 is better than synthetic changes at 7500 ... but ... is synthetic changes at 3750 better than dino changes at 3750?

I think that Q45tech has always maintained the best oil is fresh oil. Once it is in use, synthetic formulations will obviously wear better by maintaining their integrity under a wider variance of operating conditions.

Your (sic) wasting oil. Amsoil (and other PREMIUM syn oils) do NOT break down like dino oil, which is why you don't need to change it as often.

The problem with this is not synthetic oil breakdown, as it will last almost indefinitely. It is contamination from piston ring blow-by and dry start-ups.

Remember, BMW, like any OEM, really doesn't care what condition your car's internals are in once it survives OEM warranty period. Can you imagine the moan from BMW owners if the oil was changed every 3,500 miles at BMW shop prices?

[1992Q45A]

This is a partison issue.. Democrat/Republican on this one...

[Falkdesigns]

lol, partison.

I tell you what, I should dig up my Oil analysis sheet. There were TRACE amounts of contaminants in my sample after a full year of very hard driving. So contamination was a non-issue. And I'd disagree with the statement about BMW not caring about the condition of thier cars after warranty. They care about the word of mouth that would spread around if they turned to junk after warranty.

[PalmerWMD]

Sorry for my short and rambling reply above. My internet cuts out at random and I had an edit ready to clean up my post above but when I pushed "submit" I was cut off again..

The differences between AMSOIL 5w-40 and Mobil1 0w-40 are bound to be small.Both use a PAO base oil both have alarger spread to cover ( made possible by the PAO w/o excessive use of "thickeners") and bnoth have simliar viscoity numbers.

The 5w-40 AMSOIL probably would get the nod if extended drain is desired as its spread is shorter and since both use same base stock ( PAO) this means more long term stability.

But not a huge differenc either way both are good oils and likely a good fit for many of our engines.The Mobil1 0w-40 carries more certifications but it can be argued thats due to AMSOIL using the anti wear agents it sees fit , at the expense of API and other cetifications if neccessary.

Fred...

[maxnix]

Thanks for the clarifications, Fred.