Wow. Somebody buy one of these.

[RMiller]

http://www.takakaira.com/asp/t...lhoKj

It's a bargain, really.

[biosehnsucht]

Er, excuse me while I go clean up.

[float_6969]

Money, money, money,.... MONEY!!!

[RMiller]

So, a few of us could put one on our credit cards, and we can share it. Yes, that's what we'll do. I call Wed. and Sun.

[rico05]

Phase 4 is only $11000? Bargain for the performace you get. Gotta love Tomei. Gives a new meaning to crate engine.

[gore]

http://www.takakaira.com/asp/t...mipLk

bling bling

[float_6969]

That site is probabally where I'll get my HG from...

[euroboy]

for 11oooUS is a bargain......

UMMM hell NO

first off this can be done at much less of a price...as there is nothing to it...you can forge your own crank for 1000 dollars and all it is, is a ca20e crankshaft design (travel wise)you can incorporate the two det an ca20ca20 rods(make them beefier and forged for 669US)40over pistons lightweight forged and ding ding dingyou have an EVEN bigger displacement the 1950cc

don't why pay for the engine when you already have it?but man that's still 15000cad...for that much my car can run 9's all day without a sweat...

[biosehnsucht]

its worth it in the sense you know its a well biult product, not that its cheaper than doing it yourself. but you'd have to be one hell of a rich bastard to afford one

[euroboy]

like i said i can have the same thing made from local shops with a lot of prestige and for half the money!

[Xero]

1000 for a forged crank? show me, that's soooo much BS right there.

and for 15k cdn your car can run 9s?

who the hell are you? you sound like the idiots I have to listen to at work, them and thier non-stop automotive bull****.

show me your $1000 crank and show me your car run 9s AT ALL!! let alone with 15k cdn.

Tomei crate engines are worth about what they should be, not overpriced, not underpriced, about right, it's about what you'd pay to have an engine totally built at a shop that had a REAL reputation, like, a national reputation. Tomei makes quality engine parts, and since they have a name to uphold, I'd put money on their Phase engine being of the same quality.

Though SCC was able to blow a RB26DETT Phase4 in Paul Walkers R34, but that was because of "compressor surge" yeah, compressor surge on a pair of GT-RS'? yeah right, no, Paul Walker got punked by whoever he had tune the engine.

but that's off-topic here, Tomei engines are good, but I wouldn't buy things through Takakaira, cheaper prices can be found if you just look, and even if you can't find them cheaper (though I can guarantee you can) atleast you have an entity in the US that you can go after if you a) don't get parts or b) have warranty issues.

[euroboy]

well now lets see....Just to see how much i was bs'ingfirst i called crower to ask them(knowing they would one of the most expensive)price from crower after a little talk was 1700 dollarswhich right there is fine....then i proceded to call some shops around ontario one in scarborought and they quoted me after a bit of dealing for 1300CAD

now to you that price might sound right JUST for the engine...to me it is expensive and way over priced...

maybe you are used to go and do 100$ oil changes but i do them myself.on the engine itself i am looking at spending around 7K and having it stroked to 2Lfull head job and all the goodies...if you think this is unreal then i guess you live in the world where ppl get ripped...for any project you have to be resourcefull and find another way because I guarantee you that you can have your stroker kit for much less...

so by the way you talking i have to dish out 15K only for the enginethen turbo intake exhaust transmission ic drive shafts halfshafts rear end, injectors fuel management fp'sthe way you talking you can only do times like 9's if you have 30K in the car only performance ....well my friend i think you live in alice of wonderland worldif you can't do **** yourself and can't SEARCH to see if something else rather than tomei will fit then you are the true typical ricer....

"i am going with apc even though they are expensive...."

so tomei is not making any profit on their crate engines right?RIGHT............................................

so you telling me that tomei paid 6K for the engine 3K for shaft and the rest to 15K cad and they will sell it to you for that?

tomei cost on that engine WAS ALMOST HALF of what it shows there or even more

some time ago i found a stroker kit and i was told it's 2850US taxes inc that included crank rods and pistons full bottom end 1mm over bore and it was made by tomeinow lets say rods and pistons are 1200so now you have 2850-1200=1650US for a crankshaft

very close to what crower quoted me...so next time just because it says tomei don't be running after it like kids in a candy storebtw when you come to my world of cars being put on the road for less than 500bucks then i would say you have some sense that you don't need the biggest wallet you need the smartest brain which....

[r34 gtr]

ok, easy there killer. lets not kill each other.

but for the record, i can have a local place stroke my ca for under $1600us. you just have to know where to look. by the way, that includes a forged crank, strengthened stock rods and forged pistons. thats not to just 1950cc either, thats to whatever i feel fit.

the reason for a tomei engine would be that its already built for you and it will be pretty dependable if properly tuned. and you get to tell everyone that youre packing a tomei race engine. i wont lie, i want one, but i cant afford it and for the money i could do alot more damage myself.

- tim

[float_6969]

Lets keep the name calling to a minium guys. It's not neccisary and althought I LIKE being a moderator, I DON'T LIKE moderating, so please don't make me get my Big Stick...

[Xero]

oh yes, I'm a true typical ricer, hahahahah

and actually, it was YOU that said you could have 9s wth 15k cdn, not me, remember? remember what you wrote? yourself?

Iunno what you guys think when you think forging, I think what goes on at my work. I think giant 8ton presses and bright red blocks of metal being forged.

maybe you're getting cranks that are made from forged BILLETS, which would make a little more sense.

[RMiller]

Euroboy, I was being sarcastic about it being a bargain. Anyway, Tomei charges 11k because they cater to a very narrow market with engines like these. Let's say they charged 6k to cover their costs and make a little. How many people would buy it then? I wouldn't, you wouldn't, none of us would. We still wouldn't have the money. The only way it's worth it for Tomei to even bother making a built CA is to charge what they charge because they sell so few. There are products like this of every genre. Think about jewelry. The markup is like 500%. My aunt sells necklaces for 20k. God knows and I know it doesn't cost her near 20k to make; it's the same situation as the one I described above.

Bottom line is if you want the best there is and have money, that Tomei motor would be a great choice. Maybe the best choice.

[r34 gtr]

and god do i ever want one. day-um. them things is hotter'n a bowl of grits!

- tim

[euroboy]

do you want to sponsor 15K on my car?and if i don't run 9's then i will give you back 20 000the point is that you don't need big money to get the best.I used to think like that but not anymore...i can have the engine blueprinted for free from ppl who have done it their whole life on many many cars....hone the cyl walls and doa 3 valve angle job...basically once all the parts are in i can have the engine machined to perfection and assembled for less than 500bucksso with 15K i can do a lot of damage...

go at fj20.com and see how some ppl have build a 9.65sec silvia s12 ON a budgeti don't like name calling either but what's has been done and what i know i can do I AM positive i will be able to...

actually you know what you give me 10000 and i will buy a diff engine and do that up and i will run 9's....

[RMiller]

You do need big money to get the best. That's such an ignorant statement. Big money or big know-how. There's no way a motor assembled by the lowest bidder made of low priced custom precision parts will be as good as a Tomei motor.

Why do you think some machine shops charge $2k and some $500 for the same service? There's got to be a difference. Maybe one is more consistent than the other. Maybe one uses better equipment. Maybe one has a better reputation. You would insult people actually running 9's if you told them you were going to do what they do with $10k US. That's such a joke. The turbo alone would be at MINIMUM 1500, you need a new manifold. You've already spend 20% of your money. Engine management/boost control is what, 1500-2k? Oh yeah, wastegate. Slicks. New transmission. Fat clutch. I just don't see how you can think this. If it was so cheap and so driveable to make such a fast, reliable car, I would have one.

Ha. I just want to run solid 12's with that kind of money.

[euroboy]

turbo alone would be how much?

here is a t04s for the huge power to run 9's

http://store.yahoo.com/cheaptu....html

i am sorry i think it is 825bucks and that's on the net i can get one around brand new for about 800cad....

i am done aguing with you

downpipe and whatnot i can make my own about 80 bucks in materials...

to build a fast car you first NEED brains then know how to and NO a lot of cash won't get you there either

example?someone just paid 11K on a b18c to complitely do it to the tits and the best he run is a 11.4 @127mph....with better tuning larger slick he will dip into the 10's and that's a given..

BUTanother one just got a windsor 351 40 over over the counter parts from diff cars but would fit on his, shortie headers flipped over welded to two t3's REBUILDED originally from wrecking yradsengine building 2500CAD everything he did not more than 6Khe does a lot of the work himself and he just did his first pass @ 10.02 @ 142mph with more tuning and better suspension he will dip into the 9's OH and he run only 14psi per turbo!and the car weights 3600lbs cougar

[euroboy]

i am sorry you mentioned transmission?

r33 transmission for 620CAD from a local importer....

z31 halfshafts(scrap yard) or brand new300 costum drive shaft150 bucks 550 cc injectors90 each 1600cc injectors(secondaries)r200 lsd or just weld the current one

do research before you say a price...I don't go to apc to buy a 1500 turbo!

[fraz]

Why stroke the ca18 block when you can start with the ca20 one which is 40mm taller?

[Xero]

you're done arguing becuase your arguments are full of holes.

if it was sooooo easy to run 9s, why wouldn't there be more cars doing it?

you throw around lingo, costs, aprts, names, and other useless hollow bull**** when you know that you can't do it, and no one can do it.

well, yeah, you can do it...once...then everything blows up because you did it cheap, just to say you did it.

[RMiller]

If you ever talk to people that are the best at what they do, you'll find they don't cut corners. I know you don't think your ideas are cutting corners, but dang. They are. You'll probably tell me you're going to use a different ratio-ed fpr to control fuel and nothing else. Oh, wait. You're using 2 fuel rails. No big deal. Hmmm. How do we control this for cheap. I know. We'll use 2 fuel pumps and keep each rail completely independent of the other. Then we'll use 2 different fpr's off junkers. You don't see problems with this? You never mentioned any sort of management, but you mentioned using secondary injectors.

The 351 windsor is a 5.8 L. The CA is a 1.8 L. Holy crap the Windsor is over 3 times the size and needs about 1/3 the combustion power per displacement. You can afford to have some lean spots in a low output engine (relatively low output), but not in an engine pushing over 300 hp/L.

Basically all I have to say now is this: Show me anyone, anywhere that made a 1.8L motor in 2500lb car run 9's for 11k US reliably. Remember time is money, so just because you spent 11k doesn't mean it was done cheap if you also spent 500 hours machining your own parts.

[euroboy]

'you're done arguing becuase your arguments are full of holes.if it was sooooo easy to run 9s, why wouldn't there be more cars doing it?

you throw around lingo, costs, aprts, names, and other useless hollow bull**** when you know that you can't do it, and no one can do it.'

i throw numbers like that?you were proven wrong as i stated a site that you can buy a turbo for HALF the price that you stated...so clearly YOU were proven wrong....If you are bitter of paying double the price and you feel bad about it...It's not my foult...

ok how about this...s12 fj20et silvia runs 9.63 @ 147mph on a budget of 100 a week...length of ownership 2 years...

i will do the calculations for you maybe yours always doubles #'s up100*4*24=9600 AUS in mods to the carhe bought the car with a full roll cage for 3000so a tally of 12600 AUS currency 1 US= 1.3 AU1au=0.73US12600*0.73=9198 USDlets say 11K just to be inthat is what the tomei genesis COST by itself....

sorry sir you are being proven wrong every post you make, and i know you trying your hardest even if it means calling bull**** on a website which clearly indicates the price for a turbo

here is the website you can find this s12 that runs 9's

http://www.fj20.com/

scroll down and click on "featured cars"then find

"BEN's FJ20ET Nissan Gazelle(silvia)

click on it you will see all the mods he has on the car and underneath that is a magazine cover that was done on the car...

this still proves i am shooting **** all over the place with my prices?

[RMiller]

Dude, I didn't even say that. You were quoting somebody else and in turn insulting me. Sorry about overshooting the price for a turbo. Big deal. I said 1500, they cost 825. $700 difference. You still have to pay for shipping and oil lines. You still have to pay for a manifold. Etc, etc, etc. And that turbo is borderline 9 sec anyway. It flows ~60 lbs. T28's flow about 31 lbs. But 2 t28s probably wouldn't yield a 9 sec. slip. Or maybe they would if you set it up, I don't care. Oh, and there are 52 weeks in a year, maybe you didn't know that.

Umm, I don't know how that guy only spent that much. You're going by heresay. Do you know that he actually only spent 100/week? Does he have a team of engineers and mechanics that fab. up stuff? Did he get stuff given to him? Or is it just some guy with a little know-how building up a car? You can add up the parts and get more than the numbers you quoted me.

You're not replying to simple comments. I mentioned the management issues. No answer, you just talked about how the 9 sec turbo you need is that 60-1 for $825 and I was wrong about the price.

Also, you will need a built head as well. A huge turbo on a CA won't be pretty. You'll need cams, springs, maybe gears to rev as high as you need to avoid a 1500 rpm powerband.

If you can't reply to things I said before, just answer this: How can you buy the pistons, rods, crank, cams and head components, conrod bolts (definitely need these), head gasket, head studs, head port and all machine work to block including assembly (you can't get all this done for $500, so stop trying to convince people), custom T4 manifold, intake manifold (optional, but probably good for 50 hp at the 600 hp level), turbo, intercooler, radiator, flanges for your custom exhaust, intercooler/exhaust piping, clamps and silicone hoses costs bank (old school pipe clamps won't cut it at 30 psi), haltech/SDS/autronic/whatever will cost you 1500, there's 15% of your money, tuning is probably $600 or more at that level(you can try yourself but I'll bet you'll blow it), wastegate, bov, big fuel pump(s), fuel cell, roll cage (if you want to go back to the track), driveshaft loop, the rb25 trans (which typically go for $1000, so if I were you and could get them for $400 I'd buy and resell them), injectors, custom fuel rail(s), slicks, axles, clutch, driveshaft, adaptor plate for the trans. Is there any way around ANY of this stuff? If there is, tell me which things, but still explain how you would get the rest of the stuff for less than $11k. All my numbers are in US dollars.

You just don't know what's involved. Be more realistic, good stuff is expensive.

[parker]

Be more realistic, good stuff is expensive.

yup.. id rather have/build a $11k tomei crate motor that runs 12 sec than a 9sec budget motor.

[euroboy]

i am not even going to argue with you on prices again...i know how much is involved in one year that's why i gave it 3K more to the final tally i have the know how and i can build a lot of stuff myself as i have done in the past.I do not need any silicone hoses as i can make my own costum IC piping.I do my own porting and flow benching for free since i have the connections.I have connection to get my whole head done professionally for only the cost of parts i need...I can use z31 valve springs(aftermarkert)i can pick up a used sds for about 700cad...tuning NO it will not take me 600 but a mere 100 bucks for 15 dyno pulls(tuning inc'ed)fuel lines i can do my own with about 60 bucks in raw materials welder(did i mention i can get the welding materials for free)?half shafts will run me about 30 bucks each...welding the rear end or just grabbing one from the wrecking yard and modifying that 50bucks to buy it and either weld it or find something to do with it....

so lets tally it up

pistons 500rods 600crank 1500turbo 800ex mani 400intake mani 300injectors(all) 500stand alone 700tranny 650drive shaft 300(costum)fp's 200ic 500pipings 60rad 150flywheel+ clutch 600external oil pump 200pulley 100the whole valve train 1500(and that's overshooting it)belt 10022slicks mt back 300rear end +z31 half shafts 300rear suspension 500

tally is at about 11K cad currency about 8500USlets say mis tuning roll cage my helmet a suit and other little parts to 10000USi bought the engine for 900USand the car for 350US

you do the math now!

[euroboy]

so all i am saying is you give me 11K us and if i don't run 9's i will give you 15 back!If you so sure it can't be done why won't you agree to take a loan?

btw i have email ben some timeshe is a member of s12club and has said that he build the car on a budget and most of the work was done by him

[Xero]

youdon't even have a suit and a helmet of your own? then how the hell can YOU run 9s.

you can't

all you can do is take what OTHERS have done and CLAIM that you can do it to.

things aren't that easythings don't go as plannedthings don't go as cheaply as you thought

Just 'cause someone else did it, doesn't mean you can.