Won't Start, Weird Noise, *Audio File Included*

[Aeroz]

Hey,

Went to start my 240 today, started, was warming up around 2k rpms, and it usually drops down but out of nowhere it just died after about 10 seconds. It recently got cold around here, 40 F overnight, from the usual 70s so I figure it might have something to do with that.

I took a recording of the sound it makes when I try to start it: (its only 4-5 seconds, less than 100kb)

http://www.supload.com/sound_c...9.wav

I tried jumping it, push starting, and added fuel. Nothing seems to work, keeps making the same sound.

I changed spark plugs and wires about 1-2 weeks ago, replaced starter, and usually take it for a short drive everyday.

The only thing done recently, I sprayed some throttle body cleaner in TB, and I started it after that and it ran fine and a bit smoother too.

Any ideas about that sound? Thanks.

[Silvia007]

The sound file does not help. Too short and too quiet. Anyway, have you done the usual checks? Fuel and spark?

[Aeroz]

Weird I thought the sound file was clear/loud enough. Only thing I've checked for sure is that the fuel pump is good, and wires/plugs are good. What other things should I look at?

[scottydog]

Pull the plugs and see if you get spark. Sounds like maybe one of the wires came loose.

[Aeroz]

Tried the plugs, its all on tight. Any other ideas?

[Aeroz]

Ok, think I got the problem. Pulled out my plugs, inspected them and they have a black dryish coating on them. I replaced them only 2 weeks ago so they def. shouldn't look like this. I went here:

http://www.classictruckshop.co...s.htm

and it corresponds with the carbon deposits, at least it looks to.

Turns out I did clean the throttle body with STP Air and Throttle Body cleaner and a little bit of carb cleaner. Could that have anything to do with it?

Thanks.

[scottydog]

Ok pull each plug individually, clean, and reconnect to it's plug wire. Hold the plug with insulated pliers to ground it while someone turns the car over with the starter. If you get spark it's good. If not find out why.

Do that for all the plugs. I bet there is a loose/broken wire at the ignition distributor.

If you get spark fuel and air to the cylinders it will fire. Find out which one it is. It's not the throttle body cleaner.

[Aeroz]

I did that, and got a small yellow spark for each one. I tried putting in 2 of my old spark plugs, just to see if it might help, since I didn't have all 4 of them. And for a second the engine started chugging almost but died quick, and went back to the same sound. So I'm probably going to buy new plugs....

[Aeroz]

Ok its not the plugs. Replaced them with brand new plugs and checked spark, any other ideas?

[slipknot555_666_69]

check your timing in your rotor u may be getting spark but it could be firing at the wrong time tdc will be lined up with cylinder 1 on the rotor

[Aeroz]

Timing is good, what else could it be? I'm getting spark, the plugs smell like fuel when I take em out so I'm pretty sure its getting fuel. It just died while running, went from 2k to 0 instantly practically.

Edit: Could it have anything to do with cold? Its around 45 F or a little higher here on days.
Modified by Aeroz at 12:52 PM 11/23/2008

[slipknot555_666_69]

no it should matter. try unplugging your maf sensor and see if it will start. if the check engine light is coming on and its newer that 95 take it to a part store and get them to do a diagnostic to cut done the possibility's it could be anywhere from a little sensor out to your ecu so its kinda hard to tell.

[Aeroz]

Its an '89 240sx SOHC. I tried unplugging the MAF sensor still no luck. Thanks for your repeated help btw, any other ideas?

I'm not getting a check engine light, but I tried to check the ECU anyways but couldn't get that thing to swivel, kept hitting a metal piece near the glove box. If I'm not getting a check engine light should I still try to see if there's any codes on the ECU?

My spark plugs were real fouled when I took them out, running real rich apparently, could that have something to do with this? Could a car not fire up because its running real rich? o2 sensor maybe? Thanks.

[Vegascorbin]

I did that, and got a small yellow spark for each one. ....

This is a BIG clue. You should get a bright blue spark from the plugs. Check and or replace the cap and rotor. Also check the coil wire.

sounds to me like everything is trying to work but there is not enough spark to ignite the fuel.

Have you messed with ANY of the grounds lately?

Hope this helps.

Edit: Just listened to the Audio. Have you done a compression check? It sounds to me like hte engine is turning over too easy. Might just be the audio file also.

You need Air and Fuel in the proper ratio along with spark at the right time and compression for the engine to run. Fix weak spark then if not fixed check compression.

[slipknot555_666_69]

as he said change the cap and rotor button but i would go ahead and get new plugs to cheap ones are what $2 each

[Aeroz]

Changed distributor cap and rotor. Getting a bright white spark from 1 plug, 2 other plugs seem to give a bigger yellow spark, and 1 gives a weak yellow spark.

Unbolted fuel rail, tested injectors, they all shoot out a spray of fuel uniformly for a second, stop, and then shoot out again. Looks fine.

Fuel pump is good checked that.

I did notice that one of my spark plugs was coated in fuel (after changing them from the previous ones fouled by running rich or whatever), and it was at cylinder 3. Although this was after numerous crankings.

Could this really be spark? I was under the assumption that as long as most plugs spark decently the engine will start.

I don't know what/how to check grounds? Can anyone tell me what that means?

Could the wrong firing order be the issue? Although why would it run great for days, and just die out of no where?

I have a feeling it might be something fuel related. Ever since we sprayed the TB cleaner in the TB, black smoke came out of the exhaust for a bit but then it was all good. Only turned it on twice after that and both times it was for less than 5 mins, and the second time was when it died suddenly.

Could it be a clogged cat. converter?

Thanks guys.

[Pirate_Freder]

I can't imagine TB or carb cleaner causing any problems, they both evaporate very fast unless pooled. you should check your ignition coil. do you have a service manual(chiltons, hanes, etc.) for your car? i have one but i have a dual cam so...not sure if the coil is the same. i know that you can test the resistance between certain contacts though to make sure that they to spec.

[Aeroz]

So you think its the spark causing the problem? I'll mess around tomorrow I guess, and see if I can get a bright white/blue spark outta all plugs. I just figured it would turn as long a couple plugs are good enough.

[Aeroz]

Ok changed out the plugs, getting a nice big blue spark out of every single one. Tried to start the car, cranks and its so close to firing up it kills me. I can just feel the engine about to fire up its just missing something.

A clue maybe: My buddy was cranking the car at night with some Xenon headlights at my engine bay, while I watched and I noticed what looked like air going out of the air intake (its an Injen aftermarket). Maybe it was just sucking it in or something, but it was visible maybe due to the headlights.

Not sure if the above is of any use, but I can feel I'm really close to firing it up. Any ideas or suggestions?

And I am sure that I have fuel and spark at this point.

And theres 130k+ on the engine/chassis.

[slipknot555_666_69]

did u make sure your timing was right (could be getting smark but at wrong time)

theres just so many things it could be its hard to diagnose without seeing it

try making another sound clip (longer) after u check timing

[slipknot555_666_69]

wait u already did that hmm im not really sure try making another sound clip and ill try to figure it out it would at least help someone

[RR240SX]

Check you temp sensor. Pull the connector and clean the contacts. Test the resistance per the FSM. Do the same for the MAF.

[Aeroz]

Will try that also. I actually did not check timing as I went back and looked at:

zerothread/161707

And did not do anything like that really. So I'm assuming you are talking about that slipknot? Going to try it tomorrow or soon.

If I understand the article I'm supposed to get a socket on the crankshaft belt, and rotate it till the timing notch is on TDC? Wouldn't it be on stock Ka24e timing if it was timed right?

Thanks. Let me know if I'm totally misreading it.

[Aeroz]

Checked ECU its throwing a code 41 which is Air Intake Termperature Sensor.

I do have an Injen intake installed by previous owners, so could that be it? Or could this actually stop it from starting?

[slipknot555_666_69]

it should be going to the factory air box just unplug it it'll run fine without it or should i know the 91-94 doesnt have one but the others years do i couldnt tell u much on that

[spank044]

What is your compression?

[Aeroz]

I'm getting 0 compression on all cylinders assuming I did the compression test right. Also, I took the valve cover off and the chain did not move while cranking. Is the chain there supposed to move?

[slipknot555_666_69]

yea i believe u either broke your timing chain or it slipped off somehow

[faeasjepardo]

Ok this is weird, I live in Mckinney just north of Dallas, I put new plugs in last week, car ran fine. We had an ice storm here the otherday, my wife was off so I took her car to work that morning. The day after I went to start my 240, It started with no problem, but it idles rough, sounds almost like a lawn mower, i checked my plugs and they were all fine, so i went and got some new wires, and i still have the same problem . I just put some more gas in and added some seafoam, I took the car out on the hwy and warmed her up, it seems to be running somewhat better. but its still a little rough.The cold weather has to have done something, it was 70 degrees when i turned the car off on Monday, Tuesday it dropped to 24 degrees, and Wednesday was when I started having problems.My 240 is also an 89' SOHC.

[slipknot555_666_69]

Ok this is weird, I live in Mckinney just north of Dallas, I put new plugs in last week, car ran fine. We had an ice storm here the otherday, my wife was off so I took her car to work that morning. The day after I went to start my 240, It started with no problem, but it idles rough, sounds almost like a lawn mower, i checked my plugs and they were all fine, so i went and got some new wires, and i still have the same problem . I just put some more gas in and added some seafoam, I took the car out on the hwy and warmed her up, it seems to be running somewhat better. but its still a little rough.The cold weather has to have done something, it was 70 degrees when i turned the car off on Monday, Tuesday it dropped to 24 degrees, and Wednesday was when I started having problems.My 240 is also an 89' SOHC.

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