Winter project finally started

[nelson8708]

I finally got off my butt and did some thing today. I went ahead and pulled my old t25 setup off so i could start to do the fitment of my new turbo. It is freakin cold here in indy right now. It was 3 degrees tonight and was 15 degrees in the garage. I had 4 layers on but it was nice to do a little wrenching. I threw the log on there and sat the turbo on it to get a idea of what it will look like. Sucks that i wont get the t3 inlet flage i need for another two weeks. Stupid local shop ....This wont be a fast paced build so i should probably have some updates in a few weeks. Need to sell my t25 setup to get some money.^old t25 setup before pulling it^t25 vs H1C^This picture motivated me

Let me know what you guys think. Constructive criticism(cant spell?) welcome.

Modified by nelson8708 at 9:38 PM 1/27/2008

Modified by nelson8708 at 5:11 AM 2/18/2008

Modified by nelson8708 at 3:04 AM 3/15/2008
Modified by nelson8708 at 10:10 PM 6/6/2008

[neverlift]

nelson off hybrid? whats up my sohc nizzle for shizzle. It looks good man. I see some hood fitment issues but who needs a hood with that thing under there makes me miss the single stick

[480sx]

Im not really sure why you heat wrapped your intercooler system.. You want it to be strait aluminum so the heat can dissipate. With the wrap your keeping heat in, which is bad.

I agree with Neverlift, that turbo looks like its not gona clear the hood where its sitting now.

[taco_401]

i agree too ^^ need more clearns

[nelson8708]

nelson off hybrid? whats up my sohc nizzle for shizzle. It looks good man. I see some hood fitment issues but who needs a hood with that thing under there makes me miss the single stick

yeah, same one off of hybrid. Still waiting for some one to put up a link so i can start messing with the new editor (hoping to do the map conversion before spring). I dont have the flange welded on yet. There is a jack stand under the turbo just to hold it up. It will be a little tight but i think it will fit.

All my intercooler piping is steel. I could see why you want the hot side unwrapped (hot air inside anyway) but with the temp in the engine bay...wouldn't that heat up the cold side air after the intercooler. Aluminum retains heat a lot better than steel does. If you weld something aluminum it will stay hot way longer than steel does. If my theory is wrong let me know....i am loosing power

[480sx]

Woahh your way off man!

Aluminum has 10 times the heat dissipation of steel. Steel is a much denser material. If you weld two pieces of identical pipe together, one being steel and one being alum, the alum will cool off MUCH faster than the steel.

As far as your theory on the cold pipe goes, idk, but i still cant really buy into it. I cant discount it either so i wont. If your theory is feasible, that would mean you would only want the part near the throttle body to the fender wrapped. The rest of the pipe sees enough air to cool it off.

Even if your hot pipe is wrapped though, heat wrap doesnt really stop heat from getting in, it stops it from getting out.

[nelson8708]

Got ya...i will take the heat wrap off the hot side while the pipe is off. A local shop here in indy specialize in sr20 swaps, really know their stuff and have a 500+whp stock block sr. When i got to see it i saw that the pipes were heat wraped so i figured it was done for a reason. ****...they are making serious power. Maybe they thought it just looked cool. Thanks for the info.

[480sx]

If your ever that way, go by the shop and ask why they did it. You got me kinda curious. However the theory behind it just doesnt make any sense at all..

[nelson8708]

that car is long gone (sold) but the new one they swapped in has the hot side only rapped and the cold side is not. This one is built so i cant wait to see what it puts down this year. Next time i see them i will ask.

[WDRacing]

Under hood temps are higher then the output temps of the turbo. So wrapping the pipes is a good idea. I'd wrap the intake pipe, and the cold pipe. The hotpipe can stay unwrapped.

Alum may dissipate heat better, but the air outside is hotter then the air inside, so it loses it's ability to disspiate the heat. Atleast on the intake and cold pipe for sure. The hot pipe is negligeable...

If it's steel pipe, definitly wrap it.

Wrapping anything hot and using heat pad or similar to close off where the intake filter is will also yield good gains.

Basically in theory, by reducing under hood temps you can increase standard motor output by 15% in the thermal dynamics books I've read. I had my mani and DP wrapped all the way to the cat. I fabbed a true cold air partition as well as locating my filter into the fender well. I wrapped just the intake pipe though, the rest of the IC piping was painted only...I ran out of therma tec wrap

[eazye2000]

Just thought I'd throw this up. The heat wrap and stuff. Not to mention the SWEETEST manifold design. No boost creep on that bugger! It was on a car at HIN Miami.

[nelson8708]

i want to build a custom enclosure in the left front corner of the engine bay to help isolate the intake filter. Probably make it out of sheet metal and paint it. Once i get the turbo setup done i want to spend some time this season making custom ducting for the front bumper to the intercooler and radiator. I also want to make a scoop in the left front void to help channel the cold air into the intake filter enclosure. Right below the left turn singal.Maybe spend some time repainting the front bumper. That sucker took a beating when i had to daily drive it the past two winters. Its freakin cold here in indy.

[neverlift]

well your already talking about it so...

when using wrap why not get a turbo blanket and do the coolant lines(to the radiator)? I think those 2 alone would yeild reduced underhood temps. Doluck(gu on local forum) made a heat sheild for his sr and IIRC lowered by 100+degrees right at the turbo. ANd served as a hot dog grill At this point a 9dollar bottle of water wetter would be good. Unless you like me and can hardly warm up the motor. Runs at 160 now rebuilt

[480sx]

Im not really convinced of the ability of heat wrap to keep heat out. Thats not what its designed to do, it keeps heat in. I guess it stands to reason that to some degree that it would work both ways, but still.

When i get my car back together im going to test this theory. Iv got a infrared temp gage, im gona check to see what the pipes temp is after the engine bay has reached full temps with and without the wrap. Ill make sure to have controls and test it multiple times, because its worth it to know the truth IMO. If it were true, that would be a really easy way to keep your charge air colder.

Now im curious to see what other types of insulation could be utilized to keep your cold pipe from seeing engine bay temps. Got me thinkin.. Maybe some hideous foam substance, sanded and painted? Lol im sure that would work.

Would also be neat to bend and weld some aluminum cooling fins, like for CPU cooling, to the hot pipe down where it gets hit by cold air. Wonder what the cost-benefit on that would look like hehe. I mean every little bit helps right..

I think the intake pipe itself really doesnt effect your end charge air enough to justify dropping 20 dollars worth of wrap on it.

Damn, this makes me want to run my Megasquirt so bad.. IAT readout/ correction is the ish. They are working on the fix for CAS sensors like the Ka's optical now. It wasnt just me who failed with MS 2, its pretty much everyone. The MS unit cant send a correctly timed spark at cranking engine rpm speeds as i have heard. MS1 is still fine, but no timing control ftl..

Really it all comes down to IAT's.. Anything that drops them is a big plus. Sucks that the Ka's intake manifold has coolant running through it no mater what. Id love to find a way to bypass that.

[nelson8708]

well your already talking about it so...

when using wrap why not get a turbo blanket and do the coolant lines(to the radiator)? I think those 2 alone would yeild reduced underhood temps. Doluck(gu on local forum) made a heat sheild for his sr and IIRC lowered by 100+degrees right at the turbo. ANd served as a hot dog grill At this point a 9dollar bottle of water wetter would be good. Unless you like me and can hardly warm up the motor. Runs at 160 now rebuilt

I might have to get a turbo blanket. Its not real close to the brack master cylinder but compared to the bottom mount i took off it is. I am already running water wetter in it ...The whole reason i got a daily is because i didnt have heat for the past two winters in the 240. It also runs at about 160-170F in the summer. I tried swapping thermostats and even this past winter i covered 2/3 of the radiator with card board. It helped a little but once you are on the interstate and it is 10 degrees out if i turned the heat on you could watch the temp gauge drop. Since its not my daily any more i can really beat on it when i take it out on the weekends this summer.

480sx:

That would be pretty cool to test out the effects of the heat wrap on the iat. Running cooling fins on the pipe seems a little over kill but, if it helps it helps. I am cheap when it comes to horse power. I will do just about anything to increase it with out raising boost. The moment you fall in love with giving the boost controller a few click you might get a little to eager on night and BOOM......back to the drawing board. Did you decide to get a AMS manifold instead of fixing the wastegate tube on your Boost Designs manifold?
Modified by nelson8708 at 6:45 AM 1/23/2008

[WDRacing]

Im not really convinced of the ability of heat wrap to keep heat out. Thats not what its designed to do, it keeps heat in. I guess it stands to reason that to some degree that it would work both ways, but still.

When i get my car back together im going to test this theory. Iv got a infrared temp gage, im gona check to see what the pipes temp is after the engine bay has reached full temps with and without the wrap. Ill make sure to have controls and test it multiple times, because its worth it to know the truth IMO. If it were true, that would be a really easy way to keep your charge air colder.

Now im curious to see what other types of insulation could be utilized to keep your cold pipe from seeing engine bay temps. Got me thinkin.. Maybe some hideous foam substance, sanded and painted? Lol im sure that would work.

Would also be neat to bend and weld some aluminum cooling fins, like for CPU cooling, to the hot pipe down where it gets hit by cold air. Wonder what the cost-benefit on that would look like hehe. I mean every little bit helps right..

I think the intake pipe itself really doesnt effect your end charge air enough to justify dropping 20 dollars worth of wrap on it.

Damn, this makes me want to run my Megasquirt so bad.. IAT readout/ correction is the ish. They are working on the fix for CAS sensors like the Ka's optical now. It wasnt just me who failed with MS 2, its pretty much everyone. The MS unit cant send a correctly timed spark at cranking engine rpm speeds as i have heard. MS1 is still fine, but no timing control ftl..

Really it all comes down to IAT's.. Anything that drops them is a big plus. Sucks that the Ka's intake manifold has coolant running through it no mater what. Id love to find a way to bypass that.

The concept of insulation is very easy. It is designed to keep things in and out at the same time. It's common sense to assume that anything that will keep hot or cold in, will also deflect hot or cold. By insulating your house you keep the cold air inside during the summer right? Just like insulating around a fireplace keeps the heat in so you don't catch the rest of the house on fire.

If you really want to lower the intake temp, use a phenolic spacer between the head and intake mani.

[spooled240]

i think you should just wrap the cold pipe: let the heat dissipate out of the unwrapped hot pipe, then let the wrapped cold pipe keep the cold temp.

[480sx]

As far as the spacer idea goes, i have one of those and iv wondered a few things about it. The problem being, the number one runner sits right next to the coolant discharge from the heads. As you guys know, the intake manifold has coolant running through it from the port im talking about. So with that spacer, cylinders number 2,3, and 4 would be progressivly colder than number one. Wouldnt that cause a power balance issue?

[nelson8708]

i think you should just wrap the cold pipe: let the heat dissipate out of the unwrapped hot pipe, then let the wrapped cold pipe keep the cold temp.

Running with the big turbo i am i am not sure how hot the discharge temp. will be (10psi). The under hood temp of a black car in the summer might be hotter than the so called hot pipe. Now if i was running the t25 setup i had at 10psi where the turbo becomes more of a heat pump then ya the discharge temp will defintally be way hotter than the engine bay.

The shop got my T3 flange in so i am hoping to finish the manifold this weekend. So much for two weeks..lol

[spooled240]

after boosting, sometimes I'll feel the hot pipe even down near the intercooler and it will be hot as hell. I'd say the hotpipe temps at 10psi will be just as hot as the engine bay temps if not hotter.

[nelson8708]

after boosting, sometimes I'll feel the hot pipe even down near the intercooler and it will be hot as hell. I'd say the hotpipe temps at 10psi will be just as hot as the engine bay temps if not hotter.

It depends on the turbo you are using. A t25@10psi will have a extremely high discharge air temperature while a GT32@10psi will be way lower in comparison.

[neverlift]

so those ebay intake to head gaskets really work wd? I'll have to get some from my boy damon has a sheet IIRC. hey spooled;its not about the hot pipe temps, feel the outlet of the IC thats the important part.

480sx and nelso iat placement is very crusial, in the chevy world, I gained around 5whp from that simple task on a stock motor with k/n cai. Slightly diff but the concept is the same. I didnt dyno anything with the 240's but I did this on my sohc, it may have gained 2whp IDK. The best place I have figured on a turbo motor is right before the throttle body by the battery tray, then some good ole aluminum to reduce reflected heat from the rad(not an issue in your case lol) oh an dnelson your not doen yet well guys off to the fuel pump in the cold

[nelson8708]

^i agree with you that the temp coming out of the IC is what is important but, if you put lower temp air into the IC you should get even a lower temp coming out. For example:160 in....110 out130 in....80 outI know those temps are not close to the actual dischage temps but you get what i mean. Every little bit helps.

I have the inlet flange tacked into place on the manifold. Due to BMC clearence issues (DP) i decided to go with a bottom mount. Not as flashy but, will have the same effect. If i can get the fab class teacher to let me use the mig welder at school for 5 minutes i should be able to weld it up. If not i will have to wait till next weekend so i can go to a buddies house and use his dads mig welder. Going to pick up a egay wastegate some time this week. Anyway here are couple shots.

[nelson8708]

I finished the manifold and gave it to a friend to face off the head flange since it warped about 1/32 of an inch (thanks chris). I also go a v-band clamp for the compressor housing. It is starting to come together. I sold my old turbo kit and am waiting for payment but once i get it i am going to order oil lines and some tubing for the down pipe.

On a side not i made a dumb a$$ 70$mistake. When i dissasembled the turbo for the rebuild i indexed the turbine fan to the center section (good), then i indexed the compressor fan to the backing plate, but i removed the backing plate and did not index it to the center section. The backing plate can bolt on in four different positions so now i have to pay to get the rotating assembly balanced. ...omg i was so pissed when i noticed this. This little slip cost me 70$..... . I am trying to find some place cheaper but it doesnt look like that will happen. The orignal plan of a cheap holset (50$ turbo, 70$ rebuild kit, 70$ balancing=210) is now totally f%cked. Still cheaper than most but damn that sucks. I would say i have about 250$ to go until i finish this setup. I hope to have it finished by the end of march or early april.

[redhb240SXS13]

Looks nice Nelson. How you like them Honda's? LOL

[nelson8708]

their great....you just have to be ready to push them off the road when they break down.lol

[redhb240SXS13]

LOL, true story. /threadjack

[nelson8708]

Got some more stuff done. Got the down pipe tacked into place and just needs to be fully welded. Also went out and got the rotating turbo assembly cleaned and balanced. Hoping to maybe mock up the dump tube this week. Anyway here are a few pics.

I was wondering if it is better to have the dump tube recirculated into the exhaust or just open dump? Which ever way helps prevent boost creep the best. I'm thinking recirculater at a angle to help produce a scavanging effect.

EDIT:

I searched and it looks like atmo dump is the best for preventing boost creep and good for a few hp's. I dont want it to be to loud so i will probably pick up one of those lawn mower mufflers people seem to be running.

On a side note my buddie put a ramhorn/SC61 setup on his LS EG earlier tonight and it sounds sick. We are waiting for it to get re-tuned to see what it does but, I think it will be sick.
Modified by nelson8708 at 3:03 AM 3/15/2008

[nelson8708]

I have my dump tube tacked together now. I still need to add a 3-4" straight piece on the end of it so i can vent completely out of the engine bay. I plan to finish welding the down pipe this weekend, maybe the dump tube and v-band flange to the turbine housing as well if i have enough gas. I got my return line routed also so the only thing left i have to get is the oil line fitting for the turbo and install the feed line. Other than that and maybe a slight change on the hot pipe i am done. Two more weeks and i should be driving it.

[redhb240SXS13]

I want to hear some more about this lawn mower muffler idea?