rn79870 wrote:

As far as I'm concerned, American troops should be deployed for the protection of America, and the allies that have stood beside us in hard times. Not, under any circumstance for as reason such as that used for the invasion of Iraq.

Exactly...

We invaded Afganistan because we're securing the borders by aggressivly attacking a KNOWN enemy with a clear goal. This I agree with...

Think about how much better this would be going if it was THE ONLY war we were fighting right now. We could consolidate our resources and be in/out and back home grilling burgers for our kids and sipping an ice cold beer.

Even Vietnam was better thought out then Iraq...stop the invasion of communist China. Iraq had been Iraq for hundreds of years...

It's time to come home...

We come to Iraq to stage a rebellion by proxy. We overthrew the government and then discovered that the PEOPLE were the real threat. Now WE'RE the government and THEY are the rebels.

We need two things:

1) Strategic withdrawal which is milestone-based

2) Supporting our troops 100% as they achieve those milestones and get the f*** out of there.

Obama said one thing that I agree with -- he said that if Iraq had its way, they wouldn't let us leave as long as we were fighting their war FOR them. They are stalling. We need to move them past that and assert that we are there on OUR terms -- not theirs.

This is probably the best talk about Iraq in a really long time that I've witnessed in a really long time, oh I already said that.

I just wanted to say that I found WD's post dead on and quite moving.

Pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Close all our bases around the globe and bring everyone home. Disband the military. Open our borders all the way. Let the UN be the police of the world.

audtatious wrote:Pull out of Iraq and Afghanistan. Close all our bases around the globe and bring everyone home. Disband the military. Open our borders all the way. Let the UN be the police of the world.

Negative, we need those bases to counterattack/defend against foreign enemies. Without those bases we'll be launching from our own soil and also unable to defend. America has only been attacked once...imagine if what happened to Europe during WWII ever happened to America. People think 911 was bad...we lost 2 buildings. Europe had entire cities destroyed with no infrastructure to speak of for years.

I know you're just being a penor anyway Matt...opening the borders is an awful idea and one I know you disagree with.

fuk it. We also need to end all religion except for islam. I'm sure I can find a place for a prayer rug.

audtatious wrote:fuk it. We also need to end all religion except for islam. I'm sure I can find a place for a prayer rug.

I don't like the idea of having to wash my feet that often...I'll stick with Jesus FTW

Stay on topic fvcker...this is a good discussion.

Then I will bow out

ishkabibble wrote:I just wanted to say that I found WD's post dead on and quite moving.

The reason you find this to be dead on is simply one reason. The US fights with a chip on its shoulder. Knock that chip off and we'll come after you. This is something Admiral Yamamoto understood when he bombed Pearl Harbor. This is also why Afghanistan is a more legitimate war than Iraq. We didn't get into Iraq because of WMDs, however, that was our main excuse. We got in there because we were already in Afghanistan and we were led to believe al-Qaeda might be there with Hussein. Using Afghanistan and 9/11 to legitimize Iraq is how we're there.

smockers83 wrote:... We didn't get into Iraq because of WMDs, however, that was our main excuse. We got in there because we were already in Afghanistan and we were led to believe al-Qaeda might be there with Hussein. Using Afghanistan and 9/11 to legitimize Iraq is how we're there...

Actually, we'll probably never know the truth about why we entered Iraq. The reason given us was two fold. The first to remove the WMDs that threatened the free world, and the second, to remove the tyrant and restore peace and tranquility to the area. Massive fail on the part of the Bush administration as far as that goes. No WMDs and no peace restoration.

There is another side to the coin that hasn't been mentioned. Being that there is no win there for us, we can't pull out victorious. Now all the little piss ant third world countries will think they have the gonads to go toe to toe with the US. This is just another reason why wars should be left to the military, (and the dimwit politicians need to stay out of the war room).

Did you see the Frontline episode "Bush's War"? I thought it was a pretty insightful look into the events which led up to the Iraq war. I learned a few things.

Missed it. Was there anything revealed that we didn't already suspect.

There can't be anything new that hasn't been "suspect" at least at some point. If we look back, the whole world to include the majority of Americans didn't want to invade Iraq. This was well prior to 911...the two incidents have nothing to do with each other.

We went anyway, under false pretenses behind the guidance of people with alterior motives that had already knowingly and willfully ignored intelligence and fabricated half truths to better suit their personal agenda. Anyone that disagrees with that has been living with the head in a hole.

While we were there we've had our hands tied militarily. We've let the liberal media become involved with critical operations and have allowed those that don't posses the will to run a war become the tip of the spear. As with Vietnam, almost all reports of troop morale, victories and defeats were completely fabricated. I can say this beyond doubt because I was interviewed on more then one occasion after being told what I would say. Win the hearts and minds of the American people...yada yada. These same Americans that didn't want us there in the first place. Who at this point have lost all faith in the Gov because they've been caught in scandal after scandal and lie after lie. "I am the decider"...nuff said about that.

Now the powers that be use excuses like, "the vacuum effect" or "we've come to far to turn back". Whats to far when we shouldn't have even been there in the first damn place? Hello, we've been in the Desert since 91 WTF are we doing?

Exit strategy...I'm so tired of hearing those two words used together. This isn't something we haven't done before. It's actually easy...simply reverse the roll of invasion. The people and supplies got over there just fine, leaving is just as easy. We have the best Mobility Command in the world, we can get in and out of anywhere.

But the Gov isn't stable, what about the next dictator that will install himself? What about the next guy? That isn't the United States Of America...it's another country. We don't have the right to say what others do just because we are a powerful and successful Nation. We don't have to stop helping these people. We can provide everything they need to implement their own idea of Gov and assist in the building of any infrastructure they could ever want for 1/4 the cost of what we're already spending. The people in office need to suck it up and call this conflict what it is...OVER.

We don't NEED to be there anymore. It's time to bring our boys home, before we totally forget what it is we're fighting for.

WD

WDRacing wrote:There can't be anything new that hasn't been "suspect" at least at some point. If we look back, the whole world to include the majority of Americans didn't want to invade Iraq. This was well prior to 911...the two incidents have nothing to do with each other.

We went anyway, under false pretenses behind the guidance of people with alterior motives that had already knowingly and willfully ignored intelligence and fabricated half truths to better suit their personal agenda. Anyone that disagrees with that has been living with the head in a hole.

While we were there we've had our hands tied militarily. We've let the liberal media become involved with critical operations and have allowed those that don't posses the will to run a war become the tip of the spear. As with Vietnam, almost all reports of troop morale, victories and defeats were completely fabricated. I can say this beyond doubt because I was interviewed on more then one occasion after being told what I would say. Win the hearts and minds of the American people...yada yada. These same Americans that didn't want us there in the first place. Who at this point have lost all faith in the Gov because they've been caught in scandal after scandal and lie after lie. "I am the decider"...nuff said about that.

Now the powers that be use excuses like, "the vacuum effect" or "we've come to far to turn back". Whats to far when we shouldn't have even been there in the first damn place? Hello, we've been in the Desert since 91 WTF are we doing?

Exit strategy...I'm so tired of hearing those two words used together. This isn't something we haven't done before. It's actually easy...simply reverse the roll of invasion. The people and supplies got over there just fine, leaving is just as easy. We have the best Mobility Command in the world, we can get in and out of anywhere.

But the Gov isn't stable, what about the next dictator that will install himself? What about the next guy? That isn't the United States Of America...it's another country. We don't have the right to say what others do just because we are a powerful and successful Nation. We don't have to stop helping these people. We can provide everything they need to implement their own idea of Gov and assist in the building of any infrastructure they could ever want for 1/4 the cost of what we're already spending. The people in office need to suck it up and call this conflict what it is...OVER.

We don't NEED to be there anymore. It's time to bring our boys home, before we totally forget what it is we're fighting for.

WD

Well said!